Linux-Advocacy Digest #436, Volume #29 Tue, 3 Oct 00 22:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway? (Bob Hauck)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (WickedDyno)
Re: Double standard? (Charlie Ebert)
Re: How are you using linux? ("Joseph T. Adams")
Damn - Banned again for the 15th time! (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Off-topic Idiots (Was Bush v. Gore on taxes) ("David T. Johnson")
Re: Linux and Free Internet? ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop (Bob Hauck)
Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop (Bob Hauck)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway?
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 22:04:35 GMT
On Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:29:15 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>And she's going to figure out that 'hdparm' is the Magical Mystical
>Keyword how?
>
>I don't know if "apropros performance" will return that.
Not here, but "apropos disk" does.
>To be fair, I doubt NT is much better, although its documentation tends
>to be slicker.
How _do_ you turn off DMA on an IDE disk in NT? Probably a registry
key that's documented someplace in the bowels of MSDN. Where granma
won't ever find it.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: WickedDyno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:56:01 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> WickedDyno wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > "Joseph T. Adams" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In comp.os.linux.advocacy Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > : On 1 Oct 2000 15:13:23 GMT, Joseph T. Adams wrote:
> > > > :>In comp.os.linux.advocacy JS/PL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > :>In many urban areas in the U.S., urban decay, crime, and the
> > > > :>middle-class flight syndrome (often mistakenly labeled "white
> > > > :>flight")
> > > >
> > > > : How mistaken is the label ? I was in Newark NJ for a while, and I
> > > > : remember
> > > > : walking along crowded streets where I was the only "white person"
> > > > : (
> > > > : whatever
> > > > : that means ) in sight. Of course, it's also true that all the
> > > > : middle
> > > > : class
> > > > : African Americans who used to live there also seem to have packed
> > > > : their
> > > > : bags and moved to the suburbs.
> > > >
> > > > That is precisely the difference. It isn't that white people don't
> > > > want to live in terrible areas, but, rather that NO ONE wants to
> > > > live
> > > > in those areas. All but the very poorest leave.
> > > >
> > > > For a variety of reasons, most of which are not their fault, Black
> > > > and
> > > > Hispanic and other minority citizens are greatly overrepresented in
> > >
> > > Low-IQ correlates with low incomes and unemployment.
> >
> > IQ correlates even more strongly with education.
>
> Of course... retards generally don't make it into college.
Neither do those with low incomes or unemployment.
--
| Andrew Glasgow <amg39(at)cornell.edu> |
| SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical |
| reasons* why it is necessary to sacrifice a young goat |
| to your SCSI chain now and then. -- John Woods |
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Double standard?
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 01:02:11 GMT
MH wrote:
> "Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > OS stability by far. I'm just glad that Linux offers better in both
> > departments.
> > I have asked windows users time and time again what makes windows
> > greater
> > than KDE and GNOME and I never get an answer.
>
> This movie has been rolling for sometime now, but it has gotten really old.
> I think KDE & Gnome have done some great work in a short amount of time to
> make linux more accessible to new & experienced users alike. Having said
> that, however, these GUI's are nowhere even in the same league as either the
> mac or windows interfaces. Either in user friendliness, or programmability.
The latest stuff will be out in force in nearly all the distributions within
one month.
It's already out in Suse and Redhat.
But the KDE and GNOME we work with for the last year will do everything I did
on windows. Now, if I'm an inadequate user by your standards I'm not
concerned.
Everybody has different needs. As far as drag and drop printers go, I really
don't
need it. Printers and network connections are something you set up once and
then you just forget about it.
>
>
> If you truly disagree, then you don't really have the knowledge of how to
> use & exploit the advantages these interfaces provide, and are making a
> comparison that is tantamount to being on face value. But then most linux
> vs. windows pissing contests are devoid of any facts...
>
> Linux seems to be caught in a state of real confusion. Hard core users don't
> like or want these interfaces and distro's such as Corel, so they remain
> loyal to what they like, which of course is fine. The new linux user seems
> to want the 'status' of NOT using windows but wants the ease of use that
> windows offers -- as well as the wealth of applications. This user is
> driving the home user market, not the guys that rebuild their kernels and
> have their own web servers setup. Trouble with that market is that there is
> really no definable market there. I've gotten the 3 linux packages I've
> installed from cheapbytes or linuxmall for < $15 including shipping.
The really great thing about Linux in my book is the ability to use such
programs
as Emacs of WPE from my wifes computer via telenet. How about
using Lynx via telnet.
Let's not forget about Linux's WEB server Apache.
The one on Microsoft's OS is not working currently. Nor is their
FTP. Fact not much beyond that desktop is working very well,,,, is it...
And I just heard another guy complain about W2K blue screening
on him whilst playing MP3.
They don't even have NAPSTER for W2K.
>
>
> So, this 'home' user,.. or 'luser' as you people here like to call them.
> What do they really want?
> Family 'luser'? Simple suite of tools? Financial, contacts, printshop type
> of program, web browsing and email, games, reference, and educational
> software for the kids.
> Windows 8, Linux 2
>
> OK, someone just starting to program..
> I love hunting and pecking with GNU's GCC, GDB and multiple xterms. Trouble
> is I can do it all in ONE screen with Borland turbo C++ for DOS!! but, Linux
> is a great environment for a programming student. Visual
> environments...Phoenix? please... student discounts on the Borland & the
> Visual tool of the year is around $99.
Linux has pascal, C++, C, Fortran and scripting languages like Perl and Python
for starters. I'd like to hear somebody fill in the rest of the list however.
I never took a proper audit on Linux of all the programming languages.
>
>
> Windows 5, Linux 5 --Toss up, depends on which way you want to go. Perl,
> python, linux comes with so many tools..and is so stable. I like both. I
> think I'll use both.
>
> Top things for the new Linux -'luser' to consider.
>
> You don't purchase software.
> You don't have much software either.
> It's NOT windows = not a 'luser'.
> Cool desktop themes to make you stand out.
> Boast big 'uptimes'.
> Fall asleep ASAP reading 'learning the Bash Shell'
> Keep telling yourself you're hip while running a third-rate web browser in
> NN for *nix.
>
> And number one....
> How are you gonna get that tux sticker off of your bumper once you realize
> how silly it looks?
Gee! NS 6 devastates Internet Exploder. Have you tried that yet?
I'm playing real audio on mine. I listen to the 70's rock
Play freecell or majongg.
And play the cola game.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How are you using linux?
Date: 4 Oct 2000 01:14:35 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: All,
: I just ordered linux from www.cheapbytes.com. I want to use it for web
: development. I was wondering how/if people were using linux to develope
: web applications for a living.
I'm not at the moment - working for a company that has a lot of Java,
a lot more MS DNA than I'd prefer, some Unix, but very little Linux
thus far.
But lots of people do, and I would too if I had the choice. There are
lots of ways to go - XML via Apache and Xerces, traditional CGI via
mod_perl, PHP3 or PHP4 scripting, or Java and Python-based app servers
including Zope, Enhydra, and Zend. Access to modern open-source
databases including MySQL and PostgreSQL is trivial, and if your
organization has proprietary data sources, these can be connected too
via ODBC or native clients. There is some support for legacy ASP
formats, and it's fairly simple to integrate legacy Unix or Linux apps
(or even 'Doze apps) via XML.
Everything you need is free, cross-platform, standards-based, and
extremely stable and well-supported.
The only thing you might not find in abundance are GUI/WYSIWYG HTML
editors. I don't know of any good ones, although there may be some.
(I tend to prefer to either write HTML or XML myself, or, even better,
have my programs generate it dynamically under my control.)
Joe
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Damn - Banned again for the 15th time!
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 01:16:41 GMT
Rob Hughes wrote:
> Just do what I did... killfile the lot of them. These groups are much more
> enjoyable now that I no longer have to wade through the ramblings of morons,
> zealots and the generally clueless on either side.
>
> "Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Today, we live in a world where Windows occupied around 1.2 billion
> > computers world wide.
> > Linux occupies only 200 million or so computers world wide.
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Seems like the whole lot of them have banned each other several dozen times.
I'm most banned man in the planet, YET SOMEHOW, as soon as I post one
article on a newgroup the censors who banned me seems to show up and
post after my articles.
I just wanted to let you all know that I'm still reading your comments
and appearently your still reading mine AND...
for the casual observer I would like it to be know that if you hang
around with people who use Linux you will grow more intelligent over
time.
If you hang around with Wintrolls you will end up like most of the
people in this group. Just a few cupfuls shy of a cake.
Read this now for emergency relief.
http://24.94.254.33/Linux/intro.html
May we have a planet someday, in the next 5 years, where
people who bitch about Linux are actually USERS of LINUX
and not just a bunch of escapees from the local zoo.
Thanks
Charlie
------------------------------
From: "David T. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Off-topic Idiots (Was Bush v. Gore on taxes)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 18:23:46 -0400
Marty wrote:
>
>
> > But what should anyone expect from someone whose thoughts are so poorly
> > formed that he writes illogical, nonsense sentences about club presidents
> > who are also members?
>
> Never seen a "Hair Club For Men" commercial, eh?
>
> > > Meanwhile, I see you're still hypocritically contributing to off-topic
> > > threads. No surprise there.
No surprise that you make no sense. Is the "Hair Club for Men"
commercial part of the additional information needed to figure out what
your are attempting to say? If so, you should reference it to help
those unfortunate few who are slogging their way through your posts.
Based on your recent posts, there must be some other commercials needed,
as well.
> >
> > Unlike you, I have pointed out that the thread in question does not
> > belong in the newsgroups in which it is being posted.
>
> ... which itself doesn't belong in this newsgroup.
You point to my 2 or 3 posts in that thread on that subject as not
belonging but you completely ignore the hundreds of similar posts made
in the "Bush vs. Gore on Taxes" thread over the last few weeks.
H-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e.
>
> Were you also pointing out that a thread doesn't belong when you said:
> "Probably Wenham will be hugely impressed by the capabilities of this OS/2
> software and will soon post here with his new enthusiasm. Heh, heh."
Seems a valid comment to me about Wenham's perceived enthusiasm for OS/2
software. This is the COOA newsgroup, after all. OS/2 is in the title.
>
> Or how about when you started off the "Wenham Advice" thread?
Seemed and seems a valid comment (to me, anyway) to make about someone
who has exhibited a pattern of posting about OS/2 subjects in many
different threads in hundreds of posts.
>
> You're a mime and a liar, not to mention a hypocrite.
Mime? Liar? Am not! Am not!
>
> > No surprise that understanding eludes you on this point.
>
> The lack of understanding is entirely your own, troll.
Troll? Your post is riddled with name-calling but very few thoughts or
comments and what there is is nearly incoherent. I am getting tired
trying to extract some meaning from your heaps of words.
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux and Free Internet?
Date: 4 Oct 2000 01:37:03 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: I haven't been able to spare $20 a month in several years for regular
: Internet service, so I've had to use several "Free ISP" internet service
: providers. Unfortunately, all of the "free internet" (i.e., ad-bar)
: services only have software for the Windoze 9Whatever OSes. So I've
: been in the irritating position of requiring a multi-boot computer for
: years, and booting into Windoze to get on the Internet. Freewwweb.com
: used to exist to provide non-ad-bar Internet for Linux users, but they
: recently merged with Juno and now Juno is the only company.
: If you want to get Linux on the desktops and laptops of the world, you
: need to get *any* of the Free Internet companies to create a version for
: Linux. Linux has software to replace every single Micro$oft
: application. If you could advertise that Linux essentially "comes with"
: free internet service, Linux usage would increase. A clever licensing
: agreement could even put the "free isp" software on the distribution CD
: itself.
Many Linux users, myself included, prefer to avoid proprietary
(including closed-source) software, for security and ethical reasons.
But a "free Internet" client that relied on forced advertising would
have to be proprietary, or else people could easily and legally remove
the forced-advertising code.
I like the idea. I just don't see how it could work. But maybe I'm
missing something. I would never have thought that there'd be much of
a market for free software, or that every major player in IT would be
backing Linux and ditching their own proprietary Unices. But it's
happening. So maybe someone will figure out a way.
: I don't know how successful such efforts would be, since Juno has had a
: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" e-mail address for three years and STILL hasn't
: created a Mac version (Macs are roughly 12% of the desktop market, as
: compared with Linux's 4%-6%), but the Linux platform is essentially
: based on the concept of trying very hard not to spend money
I will never understand where people get this idea. The "free" in
free software means freedom, NOT price. I spend more money on Linux
than I ever did on Windows, although of course I get far more in
exchange for that money.
Linux is very important to people who are price-sensitive, but it's
biggest market by far has been among IT professionals, who in this
country at least have two to four times more real income than the
average citizen. We use Linux not because it's inexpensive, but
because it's good.
, so there
: might be more interest from the Linux community than from a Mac
: community where every upgrade means buying a whole new computer.
: I've written letters to a couple of the free ISPs, and gotten a reply
: from a very nice techie at FreeInternet (where "Linux FreeInternet" is
: "on the table", hopefully a table located somewhere near the
: decisionmakers), but the general consensus is that there hasn't been
: much interest.
: One thing that occurred to me while writing this is that a Linux
: organization could create a new free ISP solely for Linux users, to keep
: the connection software GPL, and the advertising income entirely for
: further Linux development. It would be nice to see the message "LINUX
: required" on a free ISP site.
You'd have to rely on the willingness of users to refrain from
disabling the forced advertising.
: And for further encouragement, $20 a month savings translates into $240
: a year for new hardware for your Linux box. :)
: Like to travel and use the Internet as you travel? Most free ISPs have
: phone numbers in cities all over the U.S., and some offer international
: support. You could be dialing in from a Linux laptop for free, instead
: of being forced into Windoze AOL or calling your local ISP long-distance
: (at $2.80 a minute from those cheating hotel phones).
: Local schools or high schools need an Internet lab on a budget? A room
: with 10 Pentium(tm)-class computers (90MHz to 133MHz), a 33.6k modem on
: each computer, and free Linux plus free Linux ISP, equals a computer lab
: for less than $4000. Try to do the same thing using legal editions of
: Windoze 95 and the price jumps another $200 per computer, not to mention
: the system crashes and system slowdowns increasing.
: Free Internet Service for Linux would really speed up the entry of Linux
: into the desktop and laptop market.
I would really like to see something like this, but realistically, I
can't think of a viable business model that would make it profitable
for anyone to do.
Again, maybe someone can. I've been wrong before, and this would be a
pretty neat thing to be wrong about. :)
Joe
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 23:04:36 GMT
On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:04:32 +0800, Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Pan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> kde advanced text editor vs notepad & wordpad, huge edge for linux
>
>But not vs. TextPad or Ultraedit.
One word...Emacs
>Besides, with Notepad, I can use UNICODE, *and* Windows 2000 has many
>different language input locales that Linux does not have.
Emacs + MULE
>I beg to differ. Personal web server is based on IIS 5.0 under Windows
>2000, and it SMOKES apache in almost every way.
Except running PHP or Perl as an in-process module. Or authenticating
against a MySQL database. Or lots of other things that are expensive
add-ons for IIS.
>Check www.tpc.org for the benchmarks... Windows 2000 + IIS 5.0 takes
>the TOP spots for performance.
Would that be the PWS version? Can you use that to serve more than 10
clients now, or does that still require a server license? Nobody gives
a damn about TPC-W for a *personal* web server (and given Apache's
market share I suspect nobody much gives a damn period).
>> perl vs. perl hands down, perl for linux
>
>No. ActivePerl for Win32 is perl plus Windows extensions -- ie. all of the
>funtionality of Perl plus more.
Minus the stuff that requires functioning pty's and fork(). And the
stuff that assumes you can do useful things like send mail via a
system() call.
>Many variants of sendmail exist for Win32. SMTP/NNTP/HTTP/FTP services are
>included in Windows 2000.
W2K Pro can be a mail server outa the box? Are you referring to
client capabilities or stuff that's included in the server versions?
>There are dozens of gui utilities with NO counterpart under Linux. Also,
Because they do things that don't need special utilities on Linux (such
as the Log Viewer).
>you can get the Windows 2000 resource kit which adds a zillion command line
>utilities -- many of them which came from UNIX.
A "zillion"? That's a lot. /usr/bin on this laptop has only about
900.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 23:04:37 GMT
On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:14:09 -0500, James Stutts
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>You might want to stare a little harder at some of those SGI graphics
>workstations. They have a whole line that runs NT.
They also have a whole line that runs Linux. Click the "Linux" link on
<http://www.sgi.com/>.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
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