Linux-Advocacy Digest #675, Volume #29 Sun, 15 Oct 00 17:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Suggestions for Linux (2:1)
Re: The Power of the Future! ("Drestin Black")
Re: Linux Out perfoms Windows (Goldhammer)
Re: Convince me to run Linux? (2:1)
Re: The Power of the Future! (Marty)
Re: Suggestions for Linux (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Aaron R. Kulkis [Off-Topic Idiot Tres Grande] ("Drestin Black")
Re: Ms employees begging for food ("Drestin Black")
Re: Microsoft kicked off the Web! ("Drestin Black")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: Why does Linux have to be such a pain to install? - A speech (Pan)
Re: Claire Lynn (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Suggestions for Linux (Matthias Warkus)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for Linux
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:57:40 +0100
> >ROFL! What does the BFG9K do then? patch /proc/kcore? to remove all
> >trace of the process?
>
> Oh...forgot that one! :-) I suspect one could blast the BFG9K
> in the /proc room and kill all processes belonging to the user
> (except the DOOM one itself -- whoops!).
>
> Of course, the BFG9K is only available to registered users of DOOM.
> This could be a minor problem in itself.
>
> I'm not sure what the plasma gun would do, either. And then there's
> the chainsaw, fists, and beserker mode.
There's lots of different signals. I suppose you could force a SIGPIPE
or SIGBUS, if you wanted to.
> >> Hope your benefits are paid up! :-)
> >>
> >> The mountpoints might be in open sky, in a nice green, grassy field,
> >> maybe with a bunny rabbit's head staked in the ground. :-)
> >> Or one can start in the dungeons at one's home directory, which would
> >> be a different color perhaps to distinguish it. A nice homey yellow,
> >> maybe, with a clock on the wall and a little doggie, and a desk
> >> in one corner with an "In" and "Out" basket. (Anyone remember BOB?)
> >>
> >> Others have actually implemented (rather silly, IMO) DOOM-type "games"
> >> where each process is mapped into a sergeant (complete with
> >> floating PID); to kill a process, one shoots the sergeant. One
> >> drawback is that the DOOM code occasionally has sergeants shooting
> >> at each other. It's a bug.
> >
> >I have to have this. Where can I get it?
>
> According to Yahoo (and "SHELL EXTENSION CITY"), the DOOM System
> Administration Tool is at
> http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/
> which timed out when I tried to fetch it. I know of no mirrors.
I got 200k/s out of that site :-) If you want a copy email me, and I
could email it to you.
> >
> >It wasn't a bug. Sargents were meant to shoot at each other, in DOOM.
>
> It wasn't a bug in the game. But it definitely looks like a bit
> of a bug in a sysadmin tool. :-)
It says in the docs that processes are fighting it out for resources...
They would be better as imps. They can't kill each other then. The main
problem is it has a habit of killing itself. Whoops...
> >> You now have it in your inventory. Now go back to the lift
> >> and push the 'Up' button. You should see another room; locate
> >> the door named 'bdir', walk though it. Now drop the 'afile' crate there."
> >
> >Only pausing to blash the hell out of the other users on the system, if
> >they were trying to access the same file.
>
> *chuckles*
>
> Thus passing from the realm of mere file administration into an
> interesting 3D interactive game. :-) (Well, maybe interesting to
> hardened gamesters, perhaps.)
What's the point in a fun interactive tool if its not fun?
> >It sounds fun, for about 5 minutes. Just browsing files could give you a
> >game of doom, if you are on a multiuser system. Now that sounds like
> >fun.
> >IMO Quake would be better (more configurable), but less atmosphere.
>
> If one were serious about this, the freeware could use DOOM (for now),
> but one could in principle have a ball with Unreal's engine; it's
> very rich in texture. (Unfortunately, I think it has occasional
> stability problems.)
>
> I think Quake I lost a bit of personality when it decided to forego
> the background music.
The range of mods and TCs in fantastic (I think it was a bad thing
needing compiled code for QII). Have you seen Quess?
Anyway, when I don't mind a few reboots, I'll run it as root.
Actually, I'm going to modify it to catch all signals when I get the
chance.
One other problem: it runs under X, not SVGALib, so its much slower than
lsdoom, but I had fun starting up 10 Xlogos and slaughtering them
mercilessly mwa ha ha ha haaa!
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Power of the Future!
Date: 15 Oct 2000 15:07:04 -0500
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
On 10/14/00, 9:25:01 AM, Phil 'Guido' Cava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
regarding Re: The Power of the Future!:
> Apparently Mr Black does not read the trade press.
> The issue of MS double charging corps who want to replace OEM windows
images
> with their own has been covered quite heavily in the last few months.
> Likewise, the (very) slow migration rate to W2K Server from NT4 Server
has also
> been mentioned _a_lot_.
I don't think much of Mr. Black's insights. He should know about
these problems. The consensus is that the migration off NT and to W2K
will happen _eventually_. Meanwhile Gartner Group is blasting MS
about price hikes and costs increasing for MS shops over the next few
years as fees for software increase to help fuel MS's profit growth.
====
I wasn't aware that Gartner Group was the controlling power in the decisions
made by corporations. If this is so, then I imagine you put equal weight in
the rather negative comments Gartner has made re: linux?
Funny too that despite these "blasts" I don't see any of my clients walking
away from the (still) cheaper MS solutions and taking the massively more
expensive Sun/IBM solutions? I've never ever seen anyone buy unix over MS
for price. I can't say I know of any shop that has stopped using Windows
because it was too expensive.
======
This slow migration is one reason MS stock is weak - another is the
trial and expected slowing growth in the PC market - so they say.
=====
As I don't agree with your characterisation that W2K migrations are slow I
don't see that factor - but the others sound valid.
------------------------------
From: Goldhammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Out perfoms Windows
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:03:05 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Goldhammer
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Sat, 14 Oct 2000 08:42:17 GMT
> <sks8s8.ep2.ln@localhost>:
> >On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:50:52 GMT, Pete Goodwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >wrote:
> >>And LinuxTrolls complained about my generalisation "Linux lags
behind
> >
> >
> >>same speed. Running POVray on Linux without X compared to Windows
> >>revealed Windows was faster. All done on the same hardware.
> >>
> >
> >
> >Try running the SETI@home client for windows, and the one for
> >Linux. Run them on the same dual-boot machine. Compare the results.
> >I've tried this on several machines. The Windows command-line client
> >runs consistently 20%-30% slower. Why? Compiler differences?
>
> My understanding is that part of the reason the Windows client is
> slower is that the Windows client loves to play "update the display",
> which saps CPU resource. The Linux client doesn't bother.
Obviously one would not want to compare either the graphical
Windows version nor the screensaver version to the Linux CLI version.
> Is there a method for disabling this on the Windows version?
> I'm curious.
Try
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/unix.html
http://home.sprintmail.com/~obermd/SETIDriver/
I noticed some other peculiarities as well. If I surfed the
web in Win or casually invoked other tasks while the client was
doing its thing, it made a difference in WU average time, whereas
casually running some tasks (web stuff, newsreader, gv, general
administration, etc) made no difference to the Linux client.
> (An alternative test might be to run www.distributed.net's clients
> for cracking RC5-64. Slightly different problem, same techniques
though,
> and I don't think the Windows client tries to entertain its viewers.
:-) )
Give it a shot! I ran about 40 SETI WUs on the same machine
and the difference was very significant. If you notice the
same effect for other distributed projects, then it might
not be a discrepancy peculiar to the SETI@home client or
to my particular installation setup.
--
Don't think you are. Know you are.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Convince me to run Linux?
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:05:54 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> "Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:50:39 GMT, Linux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How about a decent newsreader with scorefile ?
> > Electronics programs, schematic and PCB cad programs ?
> > Flowcharts
> > Html servers
> > Irc servers
> > Ftp servers
> > Programming, editors, compilers, profilers, debugers
> > Irc clients
> >
> > No ? how sad, Linux comes with these and *thousands* more "FREE SOFTWARE"
> > programs.
>
> yeah?...really good...eeehh now, the problem is that no "end-user" wants any
> of these, unless youre a geek of course....
Or an electrical engineer (in the case of spice)
Or a scientist doing a remotely computer based science (physice,
computer science, chemistry, engineering, biology) all can have
simulation programs written for them.
Oh, yes. I forgot, you must be a geek since you use a nwsreader (see
what exactly you said geek to).
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Power of the Future!
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:23:41 GMT
Drestin Black wrote:
>
> Funny too that despite these "blasts" I don't see any of my clients walking
> away from the (still) cheaper MS solutions and taking the massively more
> expensive Sun/IBM solutions? I've never ever seen anyone buy unix over MS
> for price. I can't say I know of any shop that has stopped using Windows
> because it was too expensive.
Synopsis has recently discontinued the NT-hosted version of their synthesis
tools in favor of their Solaris and HP-UX versions. Part of the reason was
the cost of ensuring compatibility with newer versions and fix levels of
Windows. The other major part was that their customers were getting better
throughput from Unix-hosted environments.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Suggestions for Linux
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:35:34 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:57:40 +0100
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
[snip]
>> According to Yahoo (and "SHELL EXTENSION CITY"), the DOOM System
>> Administration Tool is at
>> http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/
>> which timed out when I tried to fetch it. I know of no mirrors.
>
>I got 200k/s out of that site :-) If you want a copy email me, and I
>could email it to you.
Might have been a temporary glitch; it's working fine now.
[rest snipped]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Aaron R. Kulkis [Off-Topic Idiot Tres Grande]
Date: 15 Oct 2000 15:47:06 -0500
"R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8s8rls$5n$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <TM1F5.1122$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Ingemar Lundin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > "Jeff Glatt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >"David T. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Aaron R. Kulkis has posted a total
> > > > of at least 256 unique messages in
> > > > comp.os.os2.advocacy during the month
> > > > of September, 2000 on five related
> > > > threads, none of which have anything to
> > > > do with OS/2, OS/2 advocacy,
> > > >computer software, or even computers:
> > >
> > i didnt even know there was an ng for os/2...
> > thats the system that was put
> > out of its misery by ms ...right?
>
> No, that was the operating system for which IBM paid several hundred
> Million dollars to Microsoft to develop (most of which Gates redirected
> to the development of Windows - cased settled out of court for
> undisclosed terms). IBM then paid Microsoft another huge chunk of
> money to Microsoft for total control of the 32 bit version that
> was supposedly being developed by Microsoft (again, most of the money
> was diverted to Windows 3.1 and NT - case settled for undisclosed
> terms).
Oh Rex ... rexy rexy rexy... where ARE the proofs of these out of court
settlements?
>
> Then, after IBM spent nearly 8 months cleaning up the mess and fixing
> all the bugs (thousands of them, the product delivered my Microsoft
> wouldn't even compile), and another year making the transition from
> OS/2 2.0 (which wasn't really ready for prime-time) to Warp/3.0
> (which could at least be repaired after a Trap 0D fault) and another
> year and another several million (nearly a billion total) to get
> to Warp/4.0 (a really decent system), only to be told by Microsoft
> that unless IBM agreed to stop selling it, not only would Microsoft
> NET give IBM AND Windows 95 licenses, but they also wanted $40 million
> in License fees (for OS/2 systems sold without Windows 3.1), AND if
> IBM didn't cooperate Microsoft would start a nasty lawsuit that would
> paint IBM as a bunch of software stealing pirates (coal calling the
> kettle black).
>
> Sure, Microsoft eventually did give IBM the right to distribute
> Windows 95, 15 minutes before the curtain went up on the "grand
> unveiling" (only because the IBM logo was prominent on the backdrop
> and there wasn't time to repaint it).
DO I dare ask you to document or prove ANY of this?
<snip>
> The good news is that Windows 2000 hasn't been a spectacular marketing
> success, and Windows ME seems to have become a non-event. Linux is
> like a fresh breeze, giving consumers something new and interesting
> to play with. Windows isn't dead, but Linux has a very exciting
> market window.
"Windows isn't dead" - kinda like "People are still not dying by
spontaneously transforming into jello cubes"
>
> As for the bad news, some of the OEMs seem to be dragging their feet,
> hoping to wait until the 2.4 kernel is "officially blessed" by the
> great beermeister (Linus). They are worried that if they release
> with Linux 2.2 and their competitors have 2.4, that they might be
> obsolete. They seem to forget that with Linux, backward
> compatibility isn't just "nice to have", it's critical to the
> acceptance of an upgrade.
And this will eventually become the same weight around their necks as it's
to Windows. If we could drop backward compatibility with Win9x, it would be
amazing how much faster w2k could have been completed.
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ms employees begging for food
Date: 15 Oct 2000 15:52:06 -0500
After reading this:
http://www.nwlink.com/~rodvan/microsoft/stripper.html
I have decided I really DO want to work there!
Thanks for the great lead!
"unicat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> A picture claiming to show former monoposoft employees begging for food...
> An image from a site dedicated to spreading the "truth"-
>
> http://www.nwlink.com/~rodvan/microsoft/street1.html
>
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft kicked off the Web!
Date: 15 Oct 2000 15:56:05 -0500
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Have you ever watched the old T.V. show "I Love Lucy"?
>
> Lucy would lie to Ricky and this lie would be the basis for almost
> the entire show. The more you lie, the harder it is to cover up.
>
> Microsoft front page extensions are not lies but are similar as
> they are proprietary crap. And once you get one batch of
> proprietary crap, as soon as you see something NEW you
> need to do, all your LIES have to change to make it work.
>
> These LIES could be installed on a server or a client.
> In Microsoft's case, the Lies are mainly on the clients.
>
> And to have to sweep through 95 then 98 then NT then 2000 and
> what ever you have in the future to implement your new version
> of the truth to support some new thing, IT'S A LOT OF WORK!
>
> Just like on "I LOVE LUCY", Bull Gates ends up crying in the end.
> He's got the major case of the RED ASS.
>
> Now, RED ASS DISEASE attacked the Microsoft WEB systems
> first but it's also what's tearing down their basic Client/Server
> systems also.
>
> And with that, you have every 3rd party vendor who's trying to
> make a buck off of Microsoft developing a case of the RED ASS
> as old version which worked with OLD LIES no longer work
> with the LATEST LIE. So a SIN PATCH must be sent to
> make the LIE work again.
>
> And companies who are actually trying to run huge networks of
> order taking systems on Microsoft equipped systems are
> suffering also. They have a case of the RED ASS.
>
> And this might be where RED HAT comes in.
> RED HAT helps to keep you from having RED ASS.
>
> http://24.94.254.33/Linux/intro.html
>
> Read all of this, have a good laugh, then realize it's really
> happening. I'll see you after you get off the pot later.
>
> The basis for RED ASS DISEASE is partially found in an
> idea known as a COPY RIGHT. The rest of RED ASS
> DISEASE is caused by pure loonacy in marketing.
>
I must say - that is some seriously deranged material. but, #1) Unless your
transexual, who's Kim and why does she get author credit? #2) Is Star Office
really that horrible at HTML rendering? Oh my god, it looks terrible! From
improperly formed lines, to missing tags, to light color on almost the same
light background to all those unnecessary blank paragraph tags at the end -
that is a horrible site (sight?)
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:56:27 GMT
Max - just grow up. It's not just Microsoft that abides by the rules I laid
out -- it's all software development that isn't 'free' in the Stallman sense
of the word.
Though I'm sure you can offset development costs. Let's see... if it costs
Corel $15,000 to implement a converter for Word Perfect that takes
AppleWorks files and converts them into WP native format, and only 3 people
will buy it, they won't do it.
Or they'll charge all 3 of the people who want it $5,000 a piece.
Grow up, Max. This IS how the world works.
Simon
------------------------------
From: Pan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why does Linux have to be such a pain to install? - A speech
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:59:17 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
>
> 1) You *NEVER* have to reformat the hard drive to recover unless you're
> entire file system has been mangled. You need only boot from your recover
> disk (which was dos in and of itself). Installing windows doesn't do
> anything mythical that you must reformat your hard drive to recover from it.
AFAICT, the ONLY way to recover from a winstall is to reformat the HD
and install a better OS.
--
Pan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.la-online.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Claire Lynn
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:36:41 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sat, 14 Oct 2000 23:59:12 GMT...
...and [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Whatever.
>
> Most of the Linvocates in this group can't advocate their collective
> ass's out of a paper bag.
Fascinating. You obviously wouldn't know the difference between a
plural form and a genitive case if they both bit your arse in turn,
but still you're trying to make a point.
I just plain love that.
mawa
--
...the battle is *still* being fought over /proc and what goes in it,
and the Real Traditionalists(tm) would still sell their grandparents
to the organ banks to get rid of this creeping friendliness that's
tainting their kernels... -- David Parsons
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Suggestions for Linux
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:41:36 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:15:48 -0400...
...and unicat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 1) We need to kill off the "Cult of UNIX" mentality.
> There are too many Linux advocates who are old-line UNIX
> gurus, who believe in the "users should have to earn the right to
> use a computer" ethic.
This attitude is in reality not related to Unix in any way?
> 2) We need to completely eliminate the command line interface.
> That's right. Get rid of it.
Why?
> 3) We need to add superior functionality to the Linux GUI, like
> the "Halflife" game, with openGL and 3-D icons for linux functions-
Bzzt, you lost. There is no "the Linux GUI".
> a) A restaurant. F'rinstance, you boot linux, and you see a first
> person view of yourself walking into a restaurant. You sit at a
> table,
> and tux the penguin walks over and hands you a menu. The menu has
> linux programs grouped on pages with clickaable tabs. You click a
> tab for
> say, graphics, and a page turns to all the graphics programs . You
> click
> on a menu selection to start up the corresponding function.
Reminds me of crappy things such as the Packard Bell Navigator.
> b) An office building. You find yourself walking down a hallway,
> each door leads to either a room or another hallway. Rooms are
> directories with representational 3-D icons for files (like a TV
> for viewing
> animations, or a filing cabinet full of documents, each of which is
>
> a spearate manilla folder). Hallways are directories of
> directories.
> We could produce a tool like a .wad file editor to allow users to
> customize the 3-D environment.
Reminds me even more of the crappy Packard Bell Navigator (especially
the thing about manila folders.)
> b) Always warn the user about doing stupid things, like when they
> enter
> * and .txt as spearate files to be removed, when they meant *.txt
This idea is actually good.
> c) Never ever ever ask the user to provide the same information twice
> -
> keep everything they ever tell you in a KEYWORD=value file.
> standardize
> the use of keywords, and always check this file before asking the
> user for some fact.
Not bad, yet hard to implement.
> d) Run a background process once an hour to check the integrity and
> consistency
> of all configuration files - and fix them so they work.
Even better, yet even harder to implement.
mawa
--
Drugs may be the road to nowhere, but at least they're the scenic route!
------------------------------
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