Linux-Advocacy Digest #774, Volume #29 Sat, 21 Oct 00 01:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Win 2k Rocks!!!! Linux? It's days are numbered on my system.
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Is there a MS Word (or substitute) for Linux? (Brian L. Rachford)
Re: Linux security? It's been a busy week. ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Pros and Cons of MS Windows Dominated World? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Win 2k Rocks!!!! Linux? It's days are numbered on my system.
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux security? It's been a busy week. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Is there a MS Word (or substitute) for Linux? (Keith Edward O'Hara)
Re: Pros and Cons of MS Windows Dominated World? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("JS/PL")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Win 2k Rocks!!!! Linux? It's days are numbered on my system.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:07:35 GMT
On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:50:30 -0400, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>This is where you tip your hand and give yourself away.
>
>Installation has nothing, I repeat noting, to do with usability.
You are just proving my point. I've always said that Linux installs
fine, much, much faster than Win2k BTW.
It's what you are left with AFTER the install, that counts however.
Linux leaves far to many things that still have to be done.
>Like buying a car. The purchase process has nothing to do with driving.
>So what, it was easy to install (this time). This is because you had a
>machine that had all the components on the HCL.
I never even looked at the HCL and have pretty standard stuff, and no
Win hardware. Here is a list.
Abit BH6 with 256 meg (Linux doesn't recognize it all)
Pentium II 450 mhz
Maxtor EIDE DMA 100 drives.
IBM SCSI-3 drives
Adaptec 2940UW
HP 9310i CD
Plextor CDROM
USR V.Everything Courier Modem
Canon FB 630P scanner
Lexmark Z42 Printer (real nice!! at 2400 dpi)
MidiMan Delta 1010 (http://www.midiman.net/m-audio.htm )
Soundblaster Live
Matrox G-200 w 8meg
Pretty typical system with the exception of the Midiman card.
>I have had many an easy install with Linux, in fact, truth be told I
>have fewer problems installing Linux than I have installing Windows, in
>an over all sense.
So have I, but later versions of Windows have been much, much better.
So have later versions of Linux as well.
>Let your system run for three months, if it can.
>Trust your system not to crash, HUH!
I'll keep you posted, but understand I am dual booting to Win98Se for
digital audio work so it's not continuous up time. However, if it
turns to crap, believe me I will be quite upset.
>You are raving about the paint-job while ignoring the drivetrain. Or
>even better, you are sitting in your driveway saying: "This radio is
>fantastic, what a great car." Nothing that you posted means anything
>about using Linux or Windows, it is only that YOU are lucky enough to
>have a machine which the individual parts happen to be on Microsoft's
>supported list. Under Windows installation has to be optimized like a
>feature because you have to do it so often, where as Linux, one only
>installs once.
Like I said, I never even looked. In fact I have never had to look at
an HCL, except when trying to figure out why a particular piece of
hardware doesn't work under Linux.
claire
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> I've finally installed Win2k after using Windows 3.1/95/98/98se all of
>> these years. I am still using Windows 98SE for all of my digital audio
>> work though.
>>
>> I have never used NT or Win2k before so this was completely new
>> territory for me.
>>
>> Win2k installed perfectly and created a boot manager under BootMagic
>> (already was installed) that allows me to boot Win98SE, Win2k or
>> Mandrake 7.1 (Shudder).
>>
>> Unlike Linux, ALL of my hardware worked perfectly the first time.
>> Ultra-DMA was enabled by default during the install but it took me a
>> while to find it (under the controller instead of the drive like in
>> Win98).
>> My Matrox G-200 card was set up perfectly and even the SBLive worked,
>> digital input and output included.
>> Network card was set up, the DHCP for ICS worked and the other
>> computers recognized the ICS and worked as well, but they did need to
>> be re booted.
>>
>> It was a simple matter to install Agent, Blackice, Norton Internet
>> Security (the ad blocking works great), MusicMatch Jukebox and
>> Napster/AudioGnome/Gnutella and so forth.
>> Everything worked perfectly the first time.
>>
>> No playing with hosts files.
>> Screwing with fonts and True-Type servers with instructions from
>> Darren's web page trying to get Netscape to be readable without a
>> microscope.
>> No screwing around trying to find a Ghost. or Apps (SuSE) filter to
>> make the printer work.
>> No living without a scanner because it is a parallel port model.
>> No updating a kernel to support USB.
>> No having to turn on IP forwarding (or even knowing it has to be
>> turned on).
>> No screwing with X because the display (a Sony 21") looks like crap.
>> No setting up 3 programs and editing text files just to read news
>> offline.
>>
>> And you know the best part?
>>
>> I didn't have to read one page of instructions and I've never had to
>> open the manuals for any of the programs I use, except for my digital
>> audio programs which are very complex.
>>
>> And again, I have never used any variation of NT before.
>>
>> With Linux, I spend more time reading poorly written documentation and
>> less time using my programs all to achieve a second rate end result.
>>
>> As an example: When BlackIce stops an attack I can click on it and get
>> a pretty good technical description of what happened. I can also paste
>> the IP address into NeoTrace and get all kinds of information even so
>> far as emailing the ISP the information all in one place.
>>
>> With Norton I can use the firewall rules agent to create rules
>> automatically (or manually) without ever editing a text file and
>> possibly rendering the system useless.
>>
>> The performance under Win2k seems faster as well. My modem transfers
>> are a bit faster and things just seem smoother.
>>
>> Time will tell, but my only regret is that I didn't switch sooner.
>>
>> Linux is crude compared to a professional, user friendly system like
>> Windows 2k.
>> Linux should stay in the back of the glass house in the server room
>> where the pencil necked misfits can oohh and ahhh over it.
>>
>> I'm going to try Mandrake 7.2 when it is released but I suspect it
>> will be the same old stuff, so at that point I will most likely
>> reclaim the 10 gig I have allocated to Linux.
>>
>> After just a brief exposure to Windows 2000 it becomes painfully clear
>> how pitiful Linux is as a home desktop environment.
>>
>> claire
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brian L. Rachford)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Is there a MS Word (or substitute) for Linux?
Date: 21 Oct 2000 04:00:20 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:44:58 GMT, Grant Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> penned:
>In article <gq1I5.4141$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Matt Garman wrote:
>
>>What are the chances that a scientist is going to submit his article in
>>*exactly* the format required by the journal?
>
>If they provide a LaTeX template or class/style file, then the chances are
>fairly good. IIRC some journals (IEEE?) do just that.
FWIW, in astronomy an overwhelming majority of authors do exactly
that. For example, nearly all submissions to American journals
use the LaTeX-based AASTeX package (AAS = American Astronomical
Society). Between things that are pre-defined in the style files,
and the templates that people use, it's really not that difficult
to produce an appropriately marked-up file to submit. Furthermore,
there are style files that allow you to produce output arbitrarily
close to what will appear in the paper journal withi a little extra
effort, which is nice for preprints. There is a bit of a learning
curve, but I have encountered few astronomers that have went back
to other methods after using LaTeX. Word and/or Word Perfect files
are accepted to allow for the small percentage of authors who
choose that route. The situation is similar for the major European
journals, except they use different LaTeX packages.
Brian
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux security? It's been a busy week.
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:18:54 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> http://www.linuxsecurity.com/vuln-newsletter.html
>
>
> Better get going Linonuts.
> It's going to be a busy week.
>
> claire
Perhaps you want to deal with this one before looking for linux problems:
http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0%2C1199%2CNAV47_STO52573_NLTam%2C00.
html
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of MS Windows Dominated World?
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:07:31 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A monopoly is when you have all of them.
Then Standard Oil wasn't really a monopoly, right?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Win 2k Rocks!!!! Linux? It's days are numbered on my system.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:20:28 GMT
On 20 Oct 2000 23:00:53 -0500, Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>I think we can thank the popularity of Windows for this problem. Since
>Windows (tm) is the recognized operating system everyone seems to use,
>companies (such as Netscape) spend most of their time programming for
>Windows, not X. X programming thus takes a back seat to Win programming, and
>I think this shows in the crappy support in such Linux apps as RealPlayer (or
>whatever that thing is called now). RealPlayer doesn't support full-screen
>mode, yet full-screen mode is readily available under XFree86 in two ways:
>1.) Drawing on the screensaver. 2.) XFree86 DGA, which is similar to
>Windows' DirectX (I think). The problem you've described of fonts being too
>small under the X version of Netscape is a good example of this. The
>programmers don't know enough about X to use a big enough font size.
This is probably true in that they go where the money is first.
I used to like Netscape (even under Windows), but since IE 5.0 I have
deep sixed it.
As for Real player, that has got to be the biggest piece of crap on
the net. Just trying to navigate that web site, all the time being
bombarded with ad's to buy the commercial player is enough to make me
ill. Plus the thing has proven unstable in the past and always seems
to be dialing out to update, not matter what settings I use.
I hate it.
>The more popular Linux becomes, the more time programmers are going to devote
>to doing X programming. Hence, the Linux/X apps should be getting better
>over time.
I have no doubt they will.
>> No screwing around trying to find a Ghost. or Apps (SuSE) filter to
>> make the printer work.
>
>I know one thing. In the past, I was trying to edit /etc/printcap by hand in
>order to setup my printer. Yikes! Appsfilter at least saves me from that
>mess. Apsfilter may be tedious with all those questions. But, try to edit
>/etc/printcap by hand.
I have :)
>> No living without a scanner because it is a parallel port model.
>
>I hear you there. PPT scanners are much cheaper than SCSI. People always
>talk about how SCSI scanners are faster. Big deal, I say. It's as if I need
>photos scanned in at superman-like speeds.
Mine is reasonably fast, but SCSI is far faster.
>> No updating a kernel to support USB.
>
>FreeBSD supports USB pretty decently. You can do it via kernel mods (klds)
>or you can statically link the drivers in the kernel. Don't know about
>Linux, as I haven't run it too much these days, and I don't have any USB HW.
They have quite a bit of FreeBSD shrinkwrap on the shelf at the local
CompUSA. Sales weasel said it is selling pretty well. I suspect he
would have said that about any product I asked about though :)
>> The performance under Win2k seems faster as well. My modem transfers
>> are a bit faster and things just seem smoother.
>
>I've heard that the TCP stack for W2k was taken from FreeBSD 3.2. In that
>case, I'm running FreeBSD 4.1.1, so I should be one-upping W2k in this area.
Could be. I used to think people we BS'ing when they said their
transfer rates were better under various OSen (Linux included), but I
suppose there is something to it.
Mine is definitely better.
>> After just a brief exposure to Windows 2000 it becomes painfully clear
>> how pitiful Linux is as a home desktop environment.
>
>It's good to see that Linux has gained such widespread acceptance. After all
>the progress that has been made in desktops for Linux, I think the greatest
>accomplishment of Linux is that it has brought unix to the masses. It has
>proven that an open source, (optionally) freely available operating system
>can go head-to-head with the corporate "big guys" (Microsoft, Sun) and still
>hold its own in terms of stability, and even some cases, user-friendliness.
I hate Microsoft and the "we know what is best for you" philosophy, I
really do.
Competition can only make all osen better for all of us and the server
market is proof of this.
Linux is taking a big chunk out of that market, and rightfully so,
Win2k server and it's licensing is so grossly overpriced it's a crime.
>I'm glad you like Win 2000, and I'm sure it's a great OS. However, you're
>going to pay the price ($$$$) if you want both stability and
>user-friendliness. Linux is also available for free download, and it still
>competes with Windows 2000 with stability, and to a lesser extent,
>user-friendliness.
I've already paid the price ($$$$) and yes it is expensive. If I were
running a server farm I would use Linux in a second, if even just to
save money.
Lot's of money!
But for me, a single user, it's not bad.
>So, if you want to buy an operating system strickly for user-friendliness and
>HW support, and you have lots of $$$$$ to burn, obviously you're going to
>like Windows 2000 over Linux. But, see the previous two paragraphs for the
>strengths of Linux over Windows.
>
>- Donn
Claire
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux security? It's been a busy week.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:28:13 GMT
Old news.
The patch was released in August and it pales in comparison to all of
the vulnerabilities released in just the last week for Linux.
claire
On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:18:54 GMT, "Les Mikesell"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> http://www.linuxsecurity.com/vuln-newsletter.html
>>
>>
>> Better get going Linonuts.
>> It's going to be a busy week.
>>
>> claire
>
>Perhaps you want to deal with this one before looking for linux problems:
>
>http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0%2C1199%2CNAV47_STO52573_NLTam%2C00.
>html
>
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
------------------------------
From: Keith Edward O'Hara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Is there a MS Word (or substitute) for Linux?
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:33:09 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <8seu82$jbm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <gq1I5.4141$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: CNI/Prairienet
: On Thu, 19 Oct, Praedor Tempus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> ...
:> Gene, Journal of Molecular Evolution, RNA...NONE of them accept latex
:> (tex) format documents. They DO accept word and wordperfect. Some of
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Matt Garman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:
: If the scientist submits something that's going to be re-typeset by the
: editor anyway, it's foolish to use Word or LaTeX. It seems that in this
: case, the journals should *only* accept in plain text format. What are
: the chances that a scientist is going to submit his article in *exactly*
: the format required by the journal?
:
A markup language does have advantages over plain text for submission of
an article in a journal or a book, because it provides a way of expressing
your _intentions_ to the editor and typesetter.
The Journals of the American Physical Society, and the Optical Society of
America encourage submissions using LaTeX, preferably using their macro
package.
In fact, the APS does not request page charges from authors providing
TeX manuscripts that require minimal re-typing.
The latest policy discussion I could find on the web is a bit dated:
http://www.aps.org/apsnews/articles/11232.html
The policy of waiving page charges seems to have expanded since the
article above was written. I haven't been asked for page charges for a
14-page paper I currently have in press in Phys Rev B, for example.
I wrote my PhD thesis using Microsoft Word 2.0, which many would say was
a big mistake because it had a lot of math and I was preparing papers in
TeX on the same material. I suffered no ill effects from the experience,
however. I _did_ have to read the manual, as would anyone using it for a
big job.
=====
keith
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of MS Windows Dominated World?
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:37:28 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A monopoly is when you have all of them.
Wrong. For all of you who have flunked Econ-101, you're a monopoly when
you have such an overwhelming share of the market that you can
effectively excercise control over the marketshare you don't have.
If MSFT changed the format for Word documents, Corel and Sun would have
to follow suit with WordPerfect and StarOffice or get left in the dust.
That's monopoly power. You don't have to have 100% of the market, you
just have to have such a preponderance of the market that what few
competitors exist must either follow your lead or die. That was the
case with Standard Oil, IBM, AT&T, and now Microsoft.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:53:34 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Nik Simpson in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Said Mike Byrns in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>> [...]
>> >Of course USENET existed. It was one of the first applications of
>ARPANET after
>> >email. It predates TCP/IP.
>>
>> USENET predates APRANET, as well, or is at least contemporaneous.
>> USENET is a descendant of UUCP-based bulletin board systems, which did
>> not use ARPANET, but dial-up lines.
>
>Here's a clue Max, look up the dates for the first ARPANET nodes and then
>look up the dates for the first implementation of UUCP.
Here's something more than a clue, Nik: Dates aren't relevant to the
statement.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
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------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:55:32 -0400
Reply-To: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Chad Myers in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >
> >"Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:HNwH5.7766$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> news:HjvH5.9935$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> > There must be someone who can remember the number of times it
happened.
> >> > Once might have been accidental. Of course MSDOS 4.0 broke just about
> >> > everything ever used before, so Lotus probably wasn't singled out
that
> >> > time.
> >> > And it is amusing that it happened again with NT's service pack 6.
> >>
> >> And that problem was fixed that same week.
> >>
> >> Simon
> >
> >And, of course, the problem was due to Lotus' poor programming. The
> >fix MS implemented should not have broke anything, but because Lotus
> >designed Notes as a hack, it broke.
> >
> >MS actually had to pull back a security fix to the OS because of Lotus'
> >incompetency.
>
> Yes, yes, we know; its always the poor programming of competitors; its
> never Microsoft's anti-competitive development. Sure.
Now your getting the picture. Took you long enough.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:02:57 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>Entirely upheld...pfft. Keep talking out your ass Marx...err...Max
Yes, entirely upheld, anonymous troll.
><quote>
>"The structural remedy was never my remedy of choice," Jackson said. It was
>"a last resort, and in my judgment, Microsoft's intransigence was the
>reason."
And this from Judge Jackson, who, despite this statement, served a
structural remedy to Microsoft.
>At the same time, he said without further elaboration, "Virtually everything
>I did may be vulnerable on appeal." The case is headed to an appeals court
>in Washington that ruled in favor of Microsoft in an earlier dispute with
>the government.
></quote>
As I've already stated at least three times, in response to various
Winvocates who try to use this as troll-fodder, any real federal judge
is quite well aware that *every* thing that he says is "vulnerable" to
appeal. The question is whether the appeal will be upheld, and no
federal court judge ever makes a decision which he believes should be
overturned.
>For a charge which began as an attempt to prohibit integrating a web browser
>then radically expanded MID TRIAL! Jackson has clearly demonstrated bias
>against Microsoft and towards the DOJ, Bias is just about the WORST thing a
>judge can do. He will most likely be removed from the case altogether.
No, the charge was monopolization, attempted monopolization, and
restraint of trade. Your rather sad insistence that there must have
been bias is merely evidence that you lack the intellect necessary to
understand the facts of the case. Jackson cannot be "removed from the
case"; the case is over. Microsoft lost.
>Apparently he thought his role was to see to it that MS be found guity of as
>much as possible, as quick as possible, and recieve the harshest possible
>sentence. Every single action led towards that goal. He's an embarrassment
>to his profession and to the country.
You are an embarrassment to your country, and everyone who supposedly
taught you how to be a rational person.
>Hopefully the assault against the successfull will take a 180 degree turn on
>the first Tuesday of next month. :-)
Uh-huh. Keep waiting. Better yet, hold your breath, Okay?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
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