Linux-Advocacy Digest #895, Volume #29 Sat, 28 Oct 00 14:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why should I keep advocating Linux? (Charlie Ebert)
Re: MS Hacked? (mlw)
Re: Video software for linux (Tim Palmer)
Re: Why don't I use Linux? (2:1)
Re: Video software for linux (Tim Palmer)
Re: Run for the hills! (Tim Palmer)
Re: Suggestions for Linux (Tim Palmer)
Re: Why Linux is great. (Tim Palmer)
Re: The Linux Experience (Tim Palmer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why should I keep advocating Linux?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:53:46 GMT
I'll tell you what advocacy groups are good for Brandon.
They will never sway enough public opinion to change
anything and this is NOT what newsgroups are for.
What they are for is to CONFIRM in your own mind
your core philosophy's against those of others.
To find the error in your own ways.
And to weed out those philosophy's which are based
in misconception.
This is why time and time again, Chad Meyers keeps coming
here. He keeps supporting Microsoft performance, features,
security, price when they have lost on all the grounds listed.
They can't even keep some hackers out of their corporate
server site containing W2K code, yet he will argue with
you about Microsoft security until his penis falls off.
The reason he argues is he KNOWS HE'S WRONG!
Your going down the WRONG ROAD CHAD and that's
disturbing to him.
It goes against his EGO and right now his EGO is
the only power left in the Microsoft arena.
Microsoft is not just an operating system for people
like Chad. It's the ONLY thing they've ever known!
Microsoft is the China man's Opium!
And he will LASH OUT like a wild man in defiance
to anybody who wants to stop him from taking
his DRUGS despite the FACT that the drug
is KILLING HIM.
He is a classic example of a person who has
NO PRIVATE CONVICTION but rather
has sold his SOLE and in it's place has
inserted MICROSOFT.
And much of America is that way.
Anytime anything Microsoft has which gets
stolen, defaced or broken into, they BLAME
the PERSON WHO DID IT!
Think about that! My car was stolen but
YOU REFUSE TO PUT IN A CAR ALARM!
My HOUSE was broken into yet I refuse
to install an alarm and replace the screen door
with a real door!
Only in the COMPUTER world do we seem
to have this CONFLICT of INTEREST in people
like CHAD! They are SICK and they will NEVER
HEAL until we have RID them of this evil and
forced them to come to their senses!
Clearly it IS a sickness this Microsoft thing and
Clearly CHAD is very ill! Remember PETE GOODWIN.
PETE was once a dribbling WIN TROLL but he started
developing his common sense and now he's 50/50.
Pete was one of the worst forms of verbal diarrhea I've
seen in 5 years on COLA and now he says he's waiting
for Kylix so he can start developing his software on
Linux.
Pete was SAVED but CHAD is still ILL!
CHAD has been doing this for quite a long time now
and it may be we have to wait for Microsoft to BANKRUPT
their OS division before we can save his SICK MIND.
This is what the good of Advocacy IS!
It helps people get their heads bolted back on again
after having them locked in the MYTH of MICROSOFT VAULT!
Charlie
Brandon Van Every wrote:
> "spicerun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > To the Wintrolls.....Go Away! This post has nothing to do with you.
> >
> > During the time I've tried to advocate Linux, I keep getting flamed
> > about how I'm not doing advocating Linux correctly.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > So I guess I have to conclude that I'm not a Linvocate that plays by
> the
> > Linux Advocacy rules (who made these rules anyhow?). Comments?
>
> Before vanishing into the ether from whence I came, I hope to give some
> of you younger souls a vision of your future. You think this is about
> Linux. It isn't. It's about newsgroups. You are almost completely
> wasting your time and your life hanging out in *.advocacy newsgroups
> discussing anything. It doesn't really matter if the subject is Linux
> or game development or politics or religion or racism or whatever. The
> only real value in advocacy discussion is as a training ground for
> engineers. Competition in the arena of implementation ideas keeps the
> brain sharp. But such conversation must be pursued by sharp brains, who
> have an achievable objective. Arguing about religious issues is
> dull-witted. And with time and industry experience, you'll realize that
> the PC industry has some inherent limitations of efficiency and
> engineering quality. Once you obtain this enlightenment you'll start
> incorporating these constraints into your design decisions. You'll see
> why Linux sucks. You'll see why Windows sucks. You'll see that they
> suck differently.
>
> Linux was "neat" for the first 3 years that I was learning everything
> about it. Then it got old. After you've learned everything about its
> basic capabilities it only continues to be "neat" if you DO something
> with those capabilities. That's a much higher level of engineering
> concern: what's the application? Are you trying to network virtual
> worlds together, or are you easily amused by the fact that you can
> manually compile some source code?
>
> --
> Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
> Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA
--
Charlie
By 2005 Microsoft will be displaced by
LINUX - THE POWER OF A GNU GENERATION!
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: MS Hacked?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:56:13 -0400
MH wrote:
>
> The posts in question are part of the public domain.
Yes, but irrelevant.
You, publicly wrote that I lied about my credentials, without
substantiation, with the aim of discrediting me. This is libel, and
almost a perfect example of it, I might add. If I can prove loss of
business I should sue.
This is serious, and you should know better. We can argue
interpretation, we can argue facts and whether I or you know them, but
you can't call me a liar, or accuse me of dishonesty without some sort
of reasonable proof. You have none, because the credentials I have given
are true.
There are ways of debating that are civilized. It is this that separates
the intelligent and/or educated discussion from a common street fight.
If you just want to be a troll, then go ahead, but in real life, calling
someone a liar is often hazardous to your health.
Are you going to apologize, or are you just a moron with no character?
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Video software for linux
Date: 28 Oct 2000 13:55:59 -0500
Martin Svensson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi!
>
>Does anyone know of any video software which works both in windows and
>linux ? I'm thinking of applications such as Netmeeting, CuSeeme etc but
>they don't support linux.
>
Of corse not. Linux only for EMACS, VI, and XTERM!
>If you do .. please reply via email!
>
>Thanks
>--
>Martin Svensson
>Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why don't I use Linux?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:49:11 +0100
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> No-Spam (Terry Porter) wrote in
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >Because your a Wintroll of old ???
> >Goodwin is still hopeing to get a "Windows Bounty" on published anti
> >Linux articles.
>
> Ha ha ha.
>
> I'm not hoping to get any kind of "Windows bounty".
>
> You want to make things up, go ahead.
>
> >>In a word: Software.
> >How much fo you need ?
> >My 1997 Linux Cheapbytes CD had a couple thousand packages on it, and
> >all for about $6.
>
> I listed specific examples. A couple of thousand packages that don't do
> anything like what I'm looking for is a waste of time.
>
> >>There are packages on Windows for which there are no equivalents on
> >>Linux that I can see as yet.
> >And vice versa mate! Want examples ?
> >Lyx, Gschem, Xpcb, Koules, DDD, Xlogmaster, Visudo, Cron etc
> >Recognise those names .... I'm not supprised.
>
> I recognise cron. You do realise there is cron for Windows, do you not?
>
> Of course, not one of the above pacakges tells me what it does. About
> typical for a UNIX style application. Cryptic.
That's bullshit and you know it.
What does MS Exel do? Corel paradox powerpoint, access, hotmetal pro,
quark express, mscdex.exe?
All of those are cryptic names. They all come on windows.
> >>Borland Delphi and C++ Builder are two of these packages. They are
> >>going to appear on Linux, but not yet.
> >Your used to Windows "vapor ware" why not wait a little longer ?
>
> Vapourware exists in Linux too. What's happening with the V2.4 kernel. Is
> it ready yet?
It's there to see: go look at 2.4.0-testX. You can see it woth your own
eres. Therefore it's not vapourware.
> >>Word is not my favourite tool and there is Star Office on Linux.
> >There is also LYX and numerous others, you have to get out more Goodwin.
>
> Yes I tried some. I was not impressed.
LaTeX beats the hell out or word on many, many counts.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Video software for linux
Date: 28 Oct 2000 13:56:09 -0500
R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> Does anyone know of any video software
>> which works both in windows and linux ?
>
>You're actually asking the wrong question. The more
>accurate question would be:
>
> Are there any video standards which are supported
> on both Windows and Linux.
>
>And the answer is yes.
>
>The MPEG, MPEG2 and MPEG4 standards are all supported on
>both Linux and Windows. In addition, Linux offers several
>utilities, both commercial and GPL to support these standards.
That would B like recording yourself in an AVI and then emaling it. NetMeeting and
CUCME
is STREEMING Vidio.
>
>The X.329 video conferencing standard is also available.
>
>Between Linux users, functions such NetMeeting may be less
>important. You could use VNC to create a shared view, or you
>could run X11 over IRC-II.
Figiers a UNIX looser wood sugjest a UNUX pipe-in-da-but solution. NetMeeting works
without shel scrips.
>
>Between a mix of Linux and Windows users, you might want to
>explore something like RealNetworks, who support both Linux
>and Windows on their machines. I believe there are also
>quick-time videos as well.
>
>Keep in mind that with Linux, many of the complex monolithic
>programs that must run under a single exe image under windows
>can be emulated using trivial pipelines and named pipes or message
>queues under Linux.
Windos dosant half to emulator. It can do it for rele.
>
>> I'm thinking of applications such as Netmeeting,
>> CuSeeme etc but they don't support linux.
>This shouldn't be a suprise. NetMeeting is a Microsoft application
>and Microsoft has a notorious habit of taking public standards and
>"reengineering" them to turn them into exclusive high-profit monopoly
>tools.
In other werds, you cant rite softwair that good enuouhff to work with Microfosf
stanadards, and oll you can due is bich and mone and pritend that Linux is grait and
beter than Microsoft.
>Microsoft has been doing this since the days of BASIC. They
>implemented the original DEC BASIC, but then they created a
>save format that guaranteed that nothing but Microsfot BASIC
>could read it.
>
>Microsfot couldn't even get text right. MS-DOS was so primitive, and
>ran on such cheap and simple printers that Microsoft had to put the
>carriage-returns and line-feeds into the file. Since there wasn't
>really the equivalent to an "LPR" filter (to convert text into
>printer-friendly format), Microsoft simply left both characters
>in the files.
>
>Later, when the rest of the industry standardised on the line-feed
>as the record delimiter for text files, Microsfot clung to it's
>original 1976 text file format (It actually dates back to RT-11
>which MS-DOS was designed to emulate.
Wat the FUCK duz text half to due with Vidio?
>
>When you save word processor documents, a portable version ** Rich Text
>Format ** or RTF is a published standard that can be understood by
>most systems and word processing applications. Office 97 will also
>let you save the document in HTML (really ugly and nonstandard HTML).
>
>Office 2000 also offers the ability to save documents in XML, another
>popular and standard format. Don't be suprised however, if your Linux
>machine chokes on some Office documents. One of the classic problems
>with Office is that there are "bells and whistles" that only Office
>supports, and Microsoft encourages you to use. If you don't need it,
>don't use it.
HTML is not for NetMeting.
>
>You may want to check to see if your webcam software supports one of
>the industry standards. It's much easier to videoconference between
>systems if you have compatible standards. You might like the control
>panel on CUSeeMe or NetMeeting, but when the settings are configured
>for the ANSI standard for video conferencing, you can also work with
>implementations in KDE, GNOME, and Java. AOL instant messenger is
>greate, but it's essentially IRC-II with a friendly GUI in front of it.
No, AOL is an application, not a shellscrip.
>
>Unlike Windows, your Linux installation generally includes an IRC-II
>server, free. This means that, within your firewall, you can be
>the IRC-II server as well as the client.
Unlike Windows, Linux is a colectian of shellscrips, compilors, and text fials.
Windows has softwair, Linux maiks u rite you're oan and give it away for free.
>
>Because all UNIX programs use streams of delimited data, it's often
>very easy to encode the data into a suitable format, and ship it great
>distances, multiplex it, or capture it using trivial connections.
>
No, its eazy to shuffal it around and play with it. To maik it werk with Microsoft
standard's you half to rite 20 megabites of shell script that will due in 2 yeers wat
Microsoft can do in 2 secss.
>> If you do .. please reply via email!
>
>Since this isn't a unique issue to you, I posted it to the group,
>but I also sent you a CC.
>
>> Thanks
>> --
>> Martin Svensson
>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>
>--
>Rex Ballard - I/T Architect, MIS Director
>Linux Advocate, Internet Pioneer
>http://www.open4success.com
>Linux - 50 million satisfied users worldwide
>and growing at over 5%/month! (recalibrated 8/2/00)
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Run for the hills!
Date: 28 Oct 2000 13:56:19 -0500
The Ghost In The Machine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Steve Mading
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
>on 24 Oct 2000 00:09:37 GMT
><8t2k01$naq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>: Okay, so now you half to B a sysadmin just to use a VCR, thanks to
>>: LIE-NUX!!!![...]
>>[snip]
>>
>>Are you actually dumb enough to think that 695 exclamation points makes the
>>point better than one does?
>
>Are you SURE you want to ask that question?? :-)
>
>Just to annoy TP even further (wecome back): it is reputed that Tivo runs
>a Linux OS underneath.
I no that alredy. That's why you half to b a sisadmin just to use it.
> (For the uninitiated: Tivo is basically
>a next-generation VCR that uses a hard drive instead of magnetic tape,
Its a VCR that neads VI.
>and has some other nice options, but requires a phone line to get
>the show descriptions or something.
It requiers that you diddal with config fials and LILO and kernals just like anny
other Linux.
>
>http://www.tivo.com
>
>should have the juicy details. :-) )
>
>>
>>What a maroon.
>>
>
>Well, a day without Tim Palmer is like a day without ... um ... erm ...
>well, something ... :-)
>
>--
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for Linux
Date: 28 Oct 2000 13:56:30 -0500
The Ghost In The Machine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Nick Condon
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
>on Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:03:08 +0100
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>unicat wrote:
>>
>>> 2) We need to completely eliminate the command line interface.
>>> That's right. Get rid of it. Anything that can't be done from a
>>> GUI isn't worth doing.
>>
>>And how are you going to pipe one command to another if there is no command
>>line?
By getting a reel OS and using reel softwair that has graffix and not pipes.
>A very limited form of data piping might be done by some sort of
>"patchcord" framework. I seem to recall something like this done
>on the Amiga, and perhaps the Atari as well, although the intent
>was to pipe MIDI data around, not character streams. But something
>similar might serve, for total idiots. :-)
>Of course, the command line is much easier to work with -- how does one
>represent "tee filename.txt" with a "patchcord" framework? One would
>have to have a "set arguments for this program" menu pulldown
>or something (not unlike VC++'s debugger or JBuilder's Application
>Setup (Run tab)).
Why wood ennyone want to run some stuppit golf program that nead's a text fil to
work?? Microsoft Golf wokr's withut text fils, and tee is probly black and wite like
most X11 program's.
>Once one has that, of course, why bother with the GUI? :-)
>Might as well just type in
>
> someprog somearguments | tee filename
>
>directly to some term/shell and be done with it...less moving around
>of fingers, mice, and such too.
>
>>
>>Well done, you've just eliminated the central, major strength of the Unix
>>tradition in one stroke.
>
>I think that's exactly what he wanted! :-/
>
>After all, Unix Bad. NT Good. NT Will Win. Unix Will Lose.
>Everyone Will Be Happy. Microsoft Is The Source Of All That's Good.
>Unix Is The Source Of All That's Evil.
Thats write. Windos will win and then you loosers wil sea.
>
>(Riiiiiiiiiight. "Start Me Up", anyone? :-) )
>
>>
>>Write small programs that do one thing and do it well, this is the Unix
>>philosophy. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text
>>streams, because that is a universal interface.
>>
>>It's hard to avoid monolithic programming if none of your programs can talk
>>to each other.
>Indeed.
>--
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Linux is great.
Date: 28 Oct 2000 13:56:40 -0500
mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I hate when the seeming majority of messages are either defending Linux
>against some idiotic press release, or a dialog initiated by a troll.
>
>Lets talk about why Linux is great, and a pleasure to use.
1. It comes with VI and EMACS!
2. 'ls' beets the hell out of Explorer
3. KDE is realy slow.
5. X is realy just for running xterm's.
>
>A typical Linux distribution, out of the box, has 95% of anything anyone
>(that's ANYONE!) would want to do with a computer.
It has a jillion text edditers, twice as meny text fils, a but-load of compilors, a
haff-assed paint proggram, and a haff-assed webrownsder. I think thats' all.
>Depending on your needs, there is a high likelihood that Linux will do
>what you want better, faster, more reliably, and more socially
>responsible than Windows any release.
If your neads is just edditing text and then playing iwith it, then yes. Linux is
realy fast at edditing text and it has lots of edditers for it.
>I have a friend that is self employed as a word processor, she uses
>Linux, as she puts it, her "time is worth money."
>I have relative that uses linux to serve web pages out of his house
>using Linux.
>I know a couple companies using linux as a development environment.
>I know (as a witness) a few major companies that use Linux.
You pull oll of these out of your but. Only commy rebols whoo dont realy nead
computors use Linux and you no it.
>I personally use Linux.
>
>Windows may have some cool eye candy, but lets face it, when all is said
>and done, you want to accomplish what you want to accomplish, if you are
>willing to pay the price of instability, vendor lock, and
>price/performance penalty for Windows, enjoy. If what you want to
>accomplish can be done with Linux, you will find that it will be more
>reliable and more economically viable than ANY Windows solution.
>
>
>--
>http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Linux Experience
Date: 28 Oct 2000 13:56:50 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:23:56 GMT, Haoyu Meng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>Linux is not ready for the desktop. Functionality offered by KDE/GNOME is
>>relatively imature and unstable, compared to Windows, especially Windows2000.
>>GNOME and KDE crash way too often, is slow unless used under root account, and
>
> Not in my experience. Then again, neither kfm or sawmill are
> at all required to run KDE or GNOME and get the full benefit
> of them.
>
>>has almost no cross-application integration (ActiveX).
>
> Neither does Windows really. Typically ActiveX is merely used
> to build the subcomponents of a particular super-application.
> In general, the sort of vendorlock that Win32 tends to perpetuate
> with it's file formats doesn't lend itself well to the collaboration
> of many smaller tools.
IE integraits real good with Outlook Express and Ofice. Does KDE intergrait with
Netscape? No. Does VI intergrait with EMACS? No. The only intergraition is crakcpipes
between stuipid non-appts that bearly due anything
>>I use many Linux boxes to do data intensive batch jobs. Another friend of mine
>>use a personal farm of about 10 identical Linux boxes to do data-mining and
>>spamming.
>>There is definitely use for Linux, just not on the desktop -- yet.
>
> You haven't even begun to support that assertion.
Linux doesnit compair with Windos period
>
>[deletia]
>
>--
>
> Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.
> -- Will Rogers
>
> Don't lose
> Your head
> To gain a minute
> You need your head
> Your brains are in it.
> -- Burma Shave
>
> You never gain something but that you lose something.
> -- Thoreau
------------------------------
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