Linux-Advocacy Digest #113, Volume #30 Wed, 8 Nov 00 04:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: so REALLY, what's the matter with Microsoft? (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (.)
Re: Linux growth rate explosion! (Goldhammer)
Re: The laptop with Linux lasted exactly one week....... (Daniel Tryba)
Re: The laptop with Linux lasted exactly one week....... ("Mike")
Re: What I dont like about Linux (Donn Miller)
Re: Linux and Mac instead of Windows. (Donn Miller)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Tom Wilson")
Disapointed in the election (Clamchu)
Re: On a win 2000 system. remove RH7 as follows (Ketil Z Malde)
Konqueror a great web browser (Clamchu)
All hail the Konqueror development team (Clamchu)
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: The laptop with Linux lasted exactly one week....... (Javaduke)
Re: The laptop with Linux lasted exactly one week....... (javaduke)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: so REALLY, what's the matter with Microsoft?
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 07 Nov 2000 23:10:03 -0700
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > So, apart form your own biases, what reasons do you have to believe
> > > > > the portability of NT, which was sustained until NT4, service pack
> > > > > 2, have changed for Win2k, given that Win2k had an ALpha port until
> > > > > about Beta 3 ?
> > > >
> > > > I don't know about Mark, but how about the glaringly obvious: NT 2000
> > > > is only available for one architecture.
> > >
> > > Actually, as of yesterday, it's available for two architectures. Microsoft
> > > made the Itanium version of Whistler available for public beta.
> > >
> > > As anyone familiar with Itanium knows, it's a totally different architecture
> > > from traditional x86.
> >
> > We'll see how quickly they drop it. :)
> >
> > (*I* certainly wouldn't buy a non-ia32 machine to run Windows NT on,
> > considering Microsoft's past record of support for non-ia32
> > architectures)
>
> Past record? MS' support for Alpha (which had a reasonable sized
> market) was pretty good. Many recent products (including Office,
> Visual Studio 6, and many BackOffice products) are available on
> Alpha. All recent patches are available on alpha. Many of the
> new add-on features (scripting engines, Java VMs, etc) are
> still being released with Alpha support.
>
> What past record, other than the very good one, are you referring to?
DirectX >3 for alpha?
NT 2000 for alpha?
Visual C++/Basic >5 for alpha?
FrontPage&extensions >98 for alpha?
Linux supports over 10 distinct architectures, so this stuff isn't
really brain surgery.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: 8 Nov 2000 06:23:32 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8ua5ga$jmi$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:8u9vv6$8u8$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>>
>> > > Couldn't resist, sorry.
>> > > Deja's archives are still off somewhere, anything that has to do with
>> > > ReiserFS?
>> >
>> > No. If it was merely a filesystem problem, the fix would have been weeks,
>> > not months. The problem is much more complex, and has partially to do
>> with
>> > article numbering and integration.
>>
>> They had it before, what happened?
>> If it's article numbering problem, make an option "Search the really old
>> messages" and put it on a different database.
> Hey... they develop with Linux... give 'em a break. These complex
> concepts escape them...
You're an idiot. They would have had the same problem had they been
using ANY unix. There is no software available for NT thats robust
enough to handle nntp on their level.
(btw, I dont know the precise details of the problem; all that ive
been privy to is a few moderate details involving article numbering
and DB conversion)
=====.
------------------------------
From: Goldhammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux growth rate explosion!
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 06:28:10 GMT
In article <raNN5.123790$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Goldhammer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8u815l$kqt$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >Bruce Schuck wrote:
> > 1. What is the largest database size allowed by MSDE?
>
> 2GB. Isn't that the largest file size allowed on Linux?
No.
In any case, OS filesize limitations are not directly
relevant to the size of large databases. Postgres has
no such limitation. Database sizes can be whatever you
want. Even table sizes can exceed OS filesize limitations.
The TASS astronomical database project,
http://www.tass-survey.org, a PostgreSQL database running
under Linux, is >5 Gb in size.
>However, you can have as many 2GB databases connected to the
>server as you want.
Yeah, that's great. But the fact is: MSDE is crippleware.
> > 2. How many users does MS claim MSDE is "optimized" for?
>
> 20.
Try 5.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/techart/APG01.htm
Microsoft: "MSDE doesn't limit the number of users who can connect to
its database, but it is optimized for five users. For a larger numbers
of users, you should use SQL Server 7.0."
In other works, if you plan to have more than 5 users, Microsoft
suggests you forget MSDE and blow some big bucks on MS SQL 7.0.
Kind of makes your investment in Access really pay off, doesn't
it?
>But no one thinks that is anything more than a market
>differentiation claim
Ayende Rahien seems to think it's more than just marketing:
Rahien: "30 or so, I think. About the point when Access begin
to fail, I believe."
>since it is actually SQl Server 7.0
>which will handle thousands of users.
No, according to Microsoft, MSDE is a crippled version of SQL 7.0.
In the future, you should re-consider quoting features and
benchmark performances of MS SQL 7.0 in support of Access
2000's crippled version:
Schuck: "All the funtionality of Access reports, forms, etc +
SQL SERVER 7.0."
Schuck: "And SQL Server runtime (MSDE) ships with Access 2000.
And SQL Server owns the TPC-C benchmarks."
>>> Why not? The SQL view is even more powerful than SQL+.
>>
>>
>> The author of the above quote didn't think so.
>
> He didn't say why.
>
> I can't think of one reason why.
Maybe he suddenly realized that he's supposed
to be a database administrator, not a widget-monkey.
--
Don't think you are. Know you are.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Daniel Tryba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The laptop with Linux lasted exactly one week.......
Date: 8 Nov 2000 06:44:55 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>If he knows about basic commands like man it's easy to figure out:
> And if he doesn't?
Then he should do some study in how to use his OS.
>>man -k repair:
>>dosfsck (8) - check and repair MS-DOS file systems
>>fsck (8) - check and repair a Linux file system
>>
>>Guess what command he should use next......
> Guess how is supposed to know how to get there in the first place?
If you (like to) use an particular OS you migth also want/like to do
some study to get a better understanding in how it works. And lets face
it, man is one of the most basic commands you _need_ _to_ known on a
like like OS.
>>All distros I know (iirc) will tell you that you need to run fsck. But
>>my guess is that when you scroll up a little you will see that fsck is
>>failing, it probably will tell you on which partition, this combined
>>with a little commonsense..... run fsck.
> His common sense, as well as mine is telling him that Linux is just
> too fragile.
So switch to something else or fix the init scripts to something like
this: replace all cocurences of fsck by fsck -fy
The problem will dissapear, but so migth also some of your files without
you noticing it. The warning you get here has a meaning: Something went
wrong and there is some damage, an automatic repair is possible but to
make sure the admin knows there is something wrong the admin has to fix
it manually so he can check it out for him self. But as always there is
a simple (even more than one) way to get around this problem if one
wants to.
--
Daniel Tryba
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The laptop with Linux lasted exactly one week.......
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 07:03:29 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On 8 Nov 2000 00:30:06 GMT, Daniel Tryba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
> >> What magic command is he supposed to know, having waded through 100's
> >> of pages of How-To's, despite the fact the guy never opened a book on
> >> Windows and has been running it since 3.1 without a complete meltdown
> >> like this one.
> >
> >If he knows about basic commands like man it's easy to figure out:
>
> And if he doesn't?
>
> >man -k repair:
I made up a joke a few years ago, that separates the Unix faithful from the
unwashed heathen in seconds. It's not a very original joke, and I'm sure
it's been told thousands of times before:
==================================
Q: Why do Unix sysadmins always drown when they fall in a lake?
A: Because they yell, "man! man!" and nobody knows they need help.
===================================
I will know when Linux is going to take over the world when a Linux sysadmin
realizes why that joke is funny to so many people.
-- Mike (don't have to worry about that until Miguel d'Icaza starts
laughing) --
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 02:26:08 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What I dont like about Linux
Raul Sainz wrote:
> If you have not tested Konqueror at KDE2, then you are
> missing the new world ... taste it and forget Netscape forever.
I agree. While I'm not really a big KDE fan, Konqueror was a damned
nice browser! It was one of the best browsers I've seen, and the best
(IMO) for unix. Good effort, Konqueror team.
- Donn
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 03:01:11 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux and Mac instead of Windows.
mlw wrote:
>
> Now, I know a lot of people that would simply not be able to deal with
> the straight jacket that a Mac represents (I am one), but, I think it is
> appropriate for some users.
Though I've never tried, I think it'd be interesting to run some unix
variant on the Mac, like for example, Linux or NetBSD with X. I suppose
an older Mac Performa would make a decent X terminal. 9-)
- Donn
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------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.linux.sucks
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 08:12:03 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> KDE offers more than windows? Hah!
Well, they certainly used to.
> (Windows 2K I'm talking about here)
Okay, I haven't seen it, but it's good that they're catching up.
> Windows 2K (the english version) comes with several dozens of languages to
> set as default.
Debian ships KDE with 47 languages, independently packaged, of course,
so you only install them as you see the need. Which ones is it you
need?
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 08:12:33 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > "Toon Afish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:SUYN5.6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Shhh! Be quiet! He doesn't know about the built-in Terminal Services
on
> > > Win2K...
> >
> > He doesn't seem to know a lot of things, isn't it?
>
> You mean, that Windows is playing catchup on components that have been
> standard throughout the industry anywhere from 10 to 50 years...?
>
Considering that Microsoft made their mark with a single tasking,
CP-M clone and had to support that legacy, it's not surprising.
In essence, they're still paying for their early success.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 03:16:12 -0500
From: Clamchu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Disapointed in the election
Basically, both candidates are a f*cking joke. A while back, I was
contacted by an international recruiter about a job in the UK. The
first chance I get, I am OUTTA HERE! (US)
Clamchu
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.linux.sucks
Subject: Re: On a win 2000 system. remove RH7 as follows
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 08:20:09 GMT
John Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Actually, I have even found Woody to be more "stable" and less buggy
Yeah, I'd have agreed, until I accidentally upgraded to xfree v4,
which is a bit less polished than usual. Still can't get it to work
with my Banshee card.
> Once you get spoiled by apt and a fast connection the "which distro"
> question is quickly answered.
Yep, wonderful system.
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 03:33:16 -0500
From: Clamchu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Konqueror a great web browser
Konqueror is the best web browser I have seen. Basically, I am
disappointed in the direction Mozilla has taken. It seems to be aimed
toward running on every single platform in existence. Then, Konqueror
came along. Konqueror really has made short work out of outdoing
Mozilla. I have found that Konqueror's JavaScript works nearly as well,
if not better, than Mozilla's JS implementation. Second, AFAIK,
Konqueror is the first open source web browser on Linux to implement an
actual working Java. AFAIK Mozilla STILL doesn't have Java working on
Linux. Granted, the Java doesn't work a lot of the times, but Konqueror
still managed to support Java. And, Konqueror is many orders of
magnitude faster and bug-free than Mozilla. It also consumes much less
memory than Mozilla.
Let's give a big round of applause to the Konqueror team for what their
many bright minds have accomplished.
Let's face it - as Linux folk, Konqueror is more than good enough for
us. What are the chances that Mozilla is going to overtake IE on the
Windows platform? IE will be the dominant web browser on 'Doze for as
long as Doze is in existence. All new web browser development efforts
should be directed toward unix or Linux. Screw Windows. 99.999% of all
Windows users all clueless computer neophytes who only care about using
whatever web browser is packed with Windows. It's done. History. MS
will always find a way to package IE with Windows, no matter what. If
you're using Windows, hey, might as well use IE, as you get all of the
desktop functionality integrated with the web browser. When's the last
time you could drag'n'drop apps from Netscape to any other app on
Windows.
My message to all new web browser developers is this. Please forget
about supporting Windows. Windows is enough of a proprietary piece of
shit as it is, you may as well run a proprietary POS web browser (IE) as
well. Hey, using non-proprietary software on a proprietary POS OS such
as Windows breaks the proprietary POS operating system (Windows), so you
may as well tick with IE on Windows. The rest of us will use a real OS
(Linux) with a real web browser (Konqueror).
Also, I feel that Konqueror is practically a better Internet Explorer
than Internet Explorer, if you know what I mean. :-)
Clamchu
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 03:38:06 -0500
From: Clamchu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: All hail the Konqueror development team
All together now:
WE'RE NOT WORTHY!!!
WE'RE NOT WORTHY!!!
WE'RE NOT WORTHY!!!
WE'RE NOT WORTHY!!!
WE'RE NOT WORTHY!!!
Good work, guys! You guys absolutely, positively, kick SERIOUS INTERNET
EXPLORER ASSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!
Buy KDE products and services.
Clamchu
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------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 08:39:19 GMT
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Is ReiserFS released yet?
Is Linux released yet? What does "released" mean in this context? It
is made available to the public, does that count? Or does it need to
be in a shrink-wrapped cardboard box for it to be "released"?
I know you work hard to slander Linux and free software, but this is
getting silly.
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: Javaduke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The laptop with Linux lasted exactly one week.......
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 21:58:01 +1300
Well he must be a total fucking idiot, I have used every UNIX variant
possible and when the prompt occurs, it is saying to the stupid user that
the disk needs to be checked (it is in a special "maintain mode"). I have a
Sun System and when I donot close the system correctly occasionally it
requires user intervention, however 90% of the time errors are automatically
corrected. So donot use one idiots stupidity as the benchmark on how
complicate Linux is.
javaduke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 8 Nov 2000 00:30:06 GMT, Daniel Tryba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> So now he is getting a prompt that is as follows:
> >> (repair file system) #
> >
> >> I have no idea what he did, but I didn't even tell him about the root
> >> account so he should have been protected.
> >
> >There is no protection against the stupidities of a user. But it might
> >also have been a powersurge or a bad disk.
>
> The disk is fine, and it is quite difficult to power surge a Thinkpad
> hooked up to that massive power supply it comes with. I have had the
> lights blink in my house where every PC goes down, but the ThinkPad
> doesn't miss a beat because of the combination of batteries and the
> power supply.
>
> >> What magic command is he supposed to know, having waded through 100's
> >> of pages of How-To's, despite the fact the guy never opened a book on
> >> Windows and has been running it since 3.1 without a complete meltdown
> >> like this one.
> >
> >If he knows about basic commands like man it's easy to figure out:
>
> And if he doesn't?
>
> >man -k repair:
>
> >dosfsck (8) - check and repair MS-DOS file systems
> >fsck (8) - check and repair a Linux file system
> >
> >Guess what command he should use next......
>
> Guess how is supposed to know how to get there in the first place?
>
> >> The general public is going to run from this abortion, sorry but it's
> >> the truth.
> >
> >All distros I know (iirc) will tell you that you need to run fsck. But
> >my guess is that when you scroll up a little you will see that fsck is
> >failing, it probably will tell you on which partition, this combined
> >with a little commonsense..... run fsck.
>
> His common sense, as well as mine is telling him that Linux is just
> too fragile.
>
> Whatever bad habits he has, and I don't know, he hasn't aborted a
> system in years, till this one.
>
> Claire
------------------------------
From: javaduke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The laptop with Linux lasted exactly one week.......
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 22:08:05 +1300
And what exactly do you (Claire Lynn) use you computer for apart from simple
hogging up bandwidth dribbling on about made up senarios and writting letters to
some one nobody's even heard of. The user is a complete and utter fucking moron
with a capital M. I am no fucking rocket scientist but atleast when the shit
hits the fan and I experience problems with my computer I actually read fucking
manuals and teach myself how to make sure it does not happen again.
javaduke
Nathan Bell wrote:
> : >Did anyone ever say Linux was right for everyone? I really don't
> understand
> : >people who blame their problems on the OS, like it is a conscious being.
> I
> : >know of someone who killed their win9x system by deleting all the system
> : >files. Does that mean that win9x is faulty? Not necessarily, it's just
> not
> : >idiot proof.
> :
> : As far as this idiot is concerned, since Win 3.1, he has never
> : rendered a system useless. So Linux, at least in his eyes, is not
> : idiot proof, but Windows seems to be.
>
> Why do you make these absolute statements? You act like one person's
> experience with linux is indicative of the failure of the OS rather than
> human error. Again, if you really cared about the problem, (you don't I
> know) you would post an explicit summary of the problem to a different ng,
> rather than posting 'it broke, no work no more' to cola.
>
> : >:The machine is essentially DOA.
> : >:
> : >:What magic command is he supposed to know, having waded through 100's
> : >:of pages of How-To's, despite the fact the guy never opened a book on
> : >:Windows and has been running it since 3.1 without a complete meltdown
> : >:like this one.
> : >
> : >If you really wanted a solution you would have posted to one of the many
> : >other linux newsgroups.
> :
> : Doesn't matter, the guy has been soured on Linux and as a result, I
> : doubt it will be on his list of recommendations for the school
> : district.
>
> Then why post it. I hear schools in the UK are taking to linux very well.
> My college uses linux as the basis for its into to operating systems
> course(among many others).
> http://www.cc.gatech.edu/classes/AY2001/cs3210_fall/
>
> : I use it, but the more I use it the more apparent it becomes that it
> : is not ready for prime time. Not even close.
>
> Who said it was. I don't see big linux PR shoving linux down consumers
> throats. I agree that linux lags behind in certain areas( hw support,
> games, applications ) but that is to be expected from a FREE operating
> system with no centralized corporate support. The fact that the corporate
> word has even acknowledged the existence of Linux shows that it promises to
> improve.
>
> I think the greatest support for linux will come from students who become
> accustomed to linux at an early age ( like MS now ) and choose to develop it
> further. For example. joe is in college, has little money and wants to
> learn about web/mail/etc servers. Joe can A. use linux and find massive
> amounts of support for free, or B. pay beaucoop money for the MS product
> which does effectively the same thing, but hides the internals of the
> server. In short, you can learn a lot from using linux and it will continue
> to gain support as an educational tool.
------------------------------
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