Linux-Advocacy Digest #120, Volume #30 Wed, 8 Nov 00 13:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (Roberto Alsina)
Re: KDE vs GNOME: specific issues (Matthias Warkus)
Re: RedHat BugList Summary ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. (The Great Suprendo)
Re: What a mess.... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum ("Relax")
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. (The Great Suprendo)
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. (The Great Suprendo)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Simon Palko")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. ("Ayende Rahien")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 17:06:41 GMT
In article <8ua8ug$l87$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Paul Colquhoun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Tue, 07 Nov 2000 13:45:14 GMT, Chad Myers
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > |
> > |"Paul Colquhoun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > |news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > |> On 7 Nov 2000 04:09:10 -0600, Relax <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > |> |"Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > |> |news:8u77je$vai$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > |> |> In article <3a06de7b$0$32739$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > |> |> "Relax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > |> |> > By the way, what is the maximum
> > |> |> > partition size limit on Linux, and what is the maximum file
size
> on
> > |> |> 32bit
> > |> |> > hardware?
> > |> |>
> > |> |> Assuming ext2:
> > |> |>
> > |> |> Max file size: 2GB, unless you use the "bigfile" patch.
> > |> |> Max part size: 4TB
> > |> |
> > |> |4TB maximum FS size is quite decent, but 2GB filesize is hardly
an
> > |> |"enterprise scale" limit. Needs to mature a bit :)
> > |> |
> > |> |Released in 1993, NTFS's maximum file size is 16EB, which means
> "unlimited"
> > |> |for all practical purposes.
> > |>
> > |>
> > |> Please stop blaming the ext2 file system for the 2Gb limit.
> > |
> > |You need a patch to fix it.
> > |
> > |How easily available is this patch?
> > |
> > |Do any distributions come with it enabled by default?
> > |
> > |What are the downfalls of this patch?
> > |
> > |Has it been thoroughly tested? Regression tested?
> > |
> > |Filesystem drivers are Big Things, you can't have filesystem
> > |corruption in an enterprise environment and ext2 already
> > |has a bad name in that regard.
> >
> >
> > No patch to ext2 is required. The ext2 code on Intel already
supports
> > large files, as it is the same code that is running on Alpha and
SPAC64
> > to support large files.
> >
> > Please pay attention.
>
> You need a patch for x86, right?
> x86 makes up for the majority of the computers of the world.
> Therefor, you are most likely to need a patch.
It is not a patch to ext2.
--
Roberto Alsina
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: KDE vs GNOME: specific issues
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 14:32:36 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:12:05 -0600...
...and Jerry L Kreps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> KDE GNOME
> uses C++ uses C
Object oriented C.
> uses Qt oop widgets (GPL) GTK+, bonobo,
> corba hacks (going comm)
Going comm? What do you mean with that?
Fact is: GNOME's object model is based upon CORBA, *the* standard for
middleware.
> uses nice Signal&Slots paradigm verbose & awkward callbacks.
"Verbose and awkward callbacks?" Signals and slots, just like Qt.
> has KDevelop, a POWERFUL GUI-RAD emacs, codeforge, ???
Glade.
> Uniform across platform and apps Rethinking their strategy, again
[schnibble]
Bullshit.
Who's paying you?
mawa
--
Usenet is the ephemera of the ephemera, the veritable words written
on dust, the phoenix of speech, the sic transit to the gloria mundi.
My name is Ozymandus, king. Look on my works, ye mighty, and
despair! -- Doug Merritt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: RedHat BugList Summary
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:21:13 +0200
"Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:oAfO5.124803$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > Can you please list the number of known security bugs in a linux
> > > distribution of your choice that has been out in the open for nearly
> > > as long as win2k?
> >
> > As far as I can tell, Debian has zero security bugs for 2.2.
How long is Debian 2.2 in the open? Since August 14th, 2000, right?
Go to http://www.debian.org/security/ and see the security bugs.
Here are some which are spesific for the 2.2 release.
http://www.debian.org/security/2000/20001014
The version of nis as distributed in Debian GNU/Linux 2.1 and 2.2 contains
an ypbind package with a security problem.
http://www.debian.org/security/2000/20001013a
The version of curl as distributed with Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 had a bug in
the error logging code: when it created an error message it failed to check
the size of the buffer allocated for storing the message. This could be
exploited by the remote machine by returning an invalid response to a
request from curl which overflows the error buffer and trick curl into
executing arbitrary code.
http://www.debian.org/security/2000/20000910a
xpdf as distributed in Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 suffered from two problems:
1.. creation of temporary files was not done safely which made xpdf
vulnerable to a symlink attack.
2.. when handling URLs in documents no checking was done for shell
metacharacters before starting the browser. This makes it possible to
construct a document which cause xpdf to run arbitrary commands when the
user views an URL.
http://www.debian.org/security/2000/20000728
The versions of the ISC DHCP client in debian 2.1 (slink) and debian 2.2
(potato) are vulnerable to a root exploit.
http://www.debian.org/security/2000/20000810
mailx is a often used by other programs to send email. Unfortunately mailx
as distributed in Debian GNU/Linux 2.1 (slink) and Debian 2.2 (potato) has
some features that made it possible to execute system commands if a user can
trick a privileged program to send email using /usr/bin/mail.
<Snip a *long* list of bugs, some of them do not apply to the dist in
question.>
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:24:03 +0200
"The Great Suprendo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> A certain Ayende Rahien, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
>
> >Their problem.
> >As far as I understand, MS marketing was the one who won the OS/2 vs
Win*.
> >IBM can certainly pay for a good PR, they didn't, they lost. Whose
problem
> >is that?
>
> Well suppose Microsoft were to produce an operating system that was
> designed to compete with AIX on an RS/6000. Who do you think would win
> the "PR" war then ?
>
> IBM is a mainframe/high end server company. It sort of fell into the
> mass small computer market by accident. It expertise still lies with the
> big machines, which is why it still assembles are the fastest machines
> available in the world. It went for a gamble on a desktop server OS and
> lost it. It has other things to think about.
High end server/main frames are not a place for PR, you know.
I know very few places where you can support your arguement for buying the
10,000,000 machine because "it looked cool in the ad"
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:25:12 +0200
"The Great Suprendo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> A certain Ayende Rahien, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
>
> >IBM had invested quite a lot in Linux, didn't it?
> >If they could've done the same on Linux, they would've.
>
> IBM want to make friends in the geek contingent. They also want to have
> people to whom they can sell AIX once their needs outgrow Linux.
But didn't they prove that people's need can grow out of AIX into win2k?
(let the flames begin)
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:26:39 +0200
"The Great Suprendo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:kj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> A certain Ayende Rahien, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
> >Beta yet, right?
> >Enough said.
> >No enterprise bussiness would put a beta product on an enterprise product
> >machine.
>
> 2.4 will be released soon. If the proponents of it here are right, it
> will beat Microsoft's flagship server OS product only ten months after
> it's release.
Will it cure world hunger? Because it is the only thing that I've not seen
people talking about that it will do.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:28:19 +0200
"The Great Suprendo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> A certain Les Mikesell, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
> >> Windows NT will always perform better on multi-CPU machines,
> >> particularly with more than two processors. It's kernel is better at
> >> hiving requests off to the different CPUs. Linux' kernel isn't so good
> >> at that so the test is not a particularly fair one.
> >
> >You haven't been paying attention. Linux with the 2.4 kernel has
> >won the latest tests, even that particular one contrived to exploit
> >the earlier weakness so there would be *some* contest that
> >NT could win.
>
> Thanks for the correction. FWIW, I am a linux advocate.
>
> Is there a site where I can find out more about the proposed new
> features in the 2.4 kernel ? I've looked at kernel.org and
> kernelnotes.org but I can't see any details of what the differences
> between 2.2 and 2.4 hour.
Well, USB support, no more problems with > 2GB files, capable of scaling
upward better (more RAM & proccessors power used, and more efficently), end
war & world hunger.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:32:21 +0200
"Marc Richter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:02:35 -0800, Bruce Schuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Oh yes, and what are you going to do, recompile Oracle to use the new
API?
> >
> >Oracle? You can't use Oracle on Linux. It's not open source. How can they
> >check out the code for bugs and security holes?
>
> Ok Bruce, that's clearly an attempt to
>
> 1. Change the subject and
> 2. Spread just a tad bit O FUD.
>
> Why I'm bothering to respond is a good question, but heck, it seems that
> you've joined the raving band of anti-Linux folk.
>
> You can certainly run closed source packages on Linux. Some people are
> philosophically opposed to it. That comes down to a matter of taste
> and preference. Your sarcastic comment about bugs and security holes
> points out one such comment reason.
It was sarcasm, Marc.
A joke, a bit of humor.
Like the kind that linux pulled on me more than once. (Setting the BSOD as
the default screen server, for example)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion.
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 17:31:14 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jake Taense) wrote:
[snippity]
> If one in ten units sold caused a support call, every company based
around a
> windows product would fold. Get real.
Or even worse, if a majority of the purchasers of your Linux product are
new converts fresh from Windows, and not the "educated consumer" you
assumed them to be. Instant hall-of-famer on the f*ckedcompany.com website.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: The Great Suprendo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:38:33 +0000
A certain Ayende Rahien, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
>> 2.4 will be released soon. If the proponents of it here are right, it
>> will beat Microsoft's flagship server OS product only ten months after
>> it's release.
>
>Will it cure world hunger? Because it is the only thing that I've not seen
>people talking about that it will do.
The new kernel 2.4 "sliced" feature, designed to improve the consumption
efficiency of "bread" modules will probably provide dramatic performance
enhancements for those installing Linux on their toasters. World hunger
it ain't, but it's a step closer.
--
ROAR UP MY TWAT!!!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.graphics.api.opengl,comp.os.linux.x,comp.unix.programmer
Subject: Re: What a mess....
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 17:40:03 GMT
In article <jeff_jeffries-0611000132510001@sdn-ar-
002nyprinp124.dialsprint.net>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeff Jeffries) wrote:
> I have been trying to figure out what windowing setup to use to
develop a
> C++ and OpenGL application under Linux that will be portable to other
> *nixs.
>
> I am totally confused. There is Motif, GTK+, Qt, xwXwindows, FLTK, and
> several others.
>
> I have no idea any more how to evaluate what I need.
>
> Is there any way out of this besides trying my application with each
and
> every window manager?
>
> My career doesn't have that much time. I'm inclined to just give up
and
> use Motif, but by now I've heard lots of bad things about it, like
the
> difficulty of using it in an OO program....
>
> Sigh....what do I do?
>
> Ready to give up....
>
> --J
>
For your further con-sideration and -fusion I'd like to refer you to
http://unix.oreilly.com/news/motif_0400.html.
Not that I have any experience in GTK (or any other subject for that
matter), but from a software maintenance point of view I would say you
will find far more Motif developers in the *nix world than for GTK, Qt
and the likes.
--
--- Till Ruessmann ---
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Relax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: 8 Nov 2000 11:51:20 -0600
"Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8ubr4n$mcg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <3a080572$0$36976$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Relax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:8u8rlg$8k4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In article <3a07d40b$0$14416$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > "Relax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > "Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:8u77je$vai$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > In article <3a06de7b$0$32739$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > > > "Relax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > By the way, what is the maximum
> > > > > > partition size limit on Linux, and what is the maximum file
> size
> > > on
> > > > > 32bit
> > > > > > hardware?
> > > > >
> > > > > Assuming ext2:
> > > > >
> > > > > Max file size: 2GB, unless you use the "bigfile" patch.
> > > > > Max part size: 4TB
> > > >
> > > > 4TB maximum FS size is quite decent, but 2GB filesize is hardly an
> > > > "enterprise scale" limit. Needs to mature a bit :)
> > >
> > > Or you need to use the "bigfile" patch. You seem to enjoy selective
> > > reading.
> >
> > Oh yes, and what are you going to do, recompile Oracle to use the new
> API?
>
> What new API? Are you smoking something funny?
No new API? OK, please explain HOW you gonna access >32bit file offset with
an API allowing only 32bit arguments, such as lseek() ???? There _must_ be
some changes in the programming interface.
------------------------------
From: The Great Suprendo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:40:41 +0000
A certain Ayende Rahien, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
>> IBM is a mainframe/high end server company. It sort of fell into the
>> mass small computer market by accident. It expertise still lies with the
>> big machines, which is why it still assembles are the fastest machines
>> available in the world. It went for a gamble on a desktop server OS and
>> lost it. It has other things to think about.
>
>High end server/main frames are not a place for PR, you know.
You should ask Cray about that.
>I know very few places where you can support your arguement for buying the
>10,000,000 machine because "it looked cool in the ad"
What relevance does this have to the case in point - are you saying that
people plumped for Windows95 rather than OS/2 because of advertising ? I
don't think you're doing your argument any favours by going down that
road.
--
ROAR UP MY TWAT!!!
------------------------------
From: The Great Suprendo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:41:43 +0000
A certain Ayende Rahien, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
>> IBM want to make friends in the geek contingent. They also want to have
>> people to whom they can sell AIX once their needs outgrow Linux.
>
>But didn't they prove that people's need can grow out of AIX into win2k?
>(let the flames begin)
Win2K isn't on the S/390 yet, seems a bit unlikely that it will be any
time in the future.
--
ROAR UP MY TWAT!!!
------------------------------
From: "Simon Palko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:56:13 -0500
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8u9ocv$ebb$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "John Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8u9l1q$pm6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > : "John Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > : news:8u9jtn$phq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > : > Sam Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > : > : > What a crappy interface!
> > : >
> > : > : I believe the Open With submenu was added for Win2k/ME. Would you
> prefer
> > : > : that the interface remain the same FOREVER and never EVER get any
> better
> > : at
> > : > : all? :)
> > : >
> > : > How funny. Did you guys notice that you are defending
> > : > "shit-rightclicking"(*) ... how do you do that anyway?
> >
> > : Shift+Right Clicking, of course.
> >
> > This started as a simple potty joke ("shit" being like "crap", hense a
> > "crappy interface"), but it continues its tortured path. I guess it
just
> > proves that people can agrue without reading too closely ...
>
> Didn't get it until you explain it.
IAFWYEI.
--
-Simon Palko
"More fun than a barrel of monkeys... with dynamite strapped to their
backs!"
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 20:03:57 +0200
"Simon Palko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8uc0bn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> IAFWYEI.
Ha? What this supposed to mean?
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 20:07:05 +0200
"The Great Suprendo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >High end server/main frames are not a place for PR, you know.
>
> You should ask Cray about that.
Detials?
> >I know very few places where you can support your arguement for buying
the
> >10,000,000 machine because "it looked cool in the ad"
>
> What relevance does this have to the case in point - are you saying that
> people plumped for Windows95 rather than OS/2 because of advertising ? I
> don't think you're doing your argument any favours by going down that
> road.
Yes, what is so strange about it?
Advertising is a powerful marketing tool.
That is why you get advertising firms, and that is why you get cola vs.
pepsi ads.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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