Linux-Advocacy Digest #121, Volume #30 Wed, 8 Nov 00 15:13:06 EST
Contents:
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linvocates, true to form as usual (was dead laptop) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Who says Linux is great? (Craig Kelley)
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. (The Great Suprendo)
Re: domino to apache httpd.conf conversion help needed! (Craig Kelley)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Ms employees begging for food (Toon Moene)
Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Who says Linux is great? (Glitch)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Jacques Guy)
Re: Linvocates, true to form as usual (was dead laptop) (Glitch)
Re: so REALLY, what's the matter with Microsoft? ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum ("Chad Myers")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 08 Nov 2000 11:28:54 -0700
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "The Great Suprendo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:kj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > A certain Ayende Rahien, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
> > >Beta yet, right?
> > >Enough said.
> > >No enterprise bussiness would put a beta product on an enterprise product
> > >machine.
> >
> > 2.4 will be released soon. If the proponents of it here are right, it
> > will beat Microsoft's flagship server OS product only ten months after
> > it's release.
>
> Will it cure world hunger? Because it is the only thing that I've not seen
> people talking about that it will do.
Well, at least people can spend their money on more
interesting/needful things other than Microsoft Client Access Licenses
and paying for Office over and over again. Think about that the next
time you fork over another $200 for the latest debacle. ;)
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linvocates, true to form as usual (was dead laptop)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 18:31:35 GMT
On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 02:10:39 -0500, Mikey
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Who_the_fsck_cares_about_the_average_luser? Not me. Just keep
>rebooting & re-installing Windoze if that's what you want. Just go over
I rest my case.
The rest is not even worth commenting on.
claire
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Who says Linux is great?
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 08 Nov 2000 11:31:42 -0700
"Aleksandar V." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Another thing why Linux is bad is memory usage: I have 32 MB of RAM, and I
> don't want to upgrade this machine. Linux (Red Hat 6.0) with Gnome is using
> around 33 MB alone, so it swaps immediately upon loading.
>
> I checked memory usage of Windows 98 (build 1998, with IE 4 SP1). It uses
> 19 MB alone. (When IE 5 is installed, I think it's using around 24 MB.)
>
> So what do you have to say about performance of Linux? How does requirements
> for 33 MB or more compares to 19?
Comparing Linux to Windows98 (aka DOS) is pointless. They have
completely different design goals and system requirements.
Put Windows 2000 on that machine and watch how quickly you can browse
the internet while burning a CD.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: The Great Suprendo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:19:30 +0000
A certain Ayende Rahien, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
>> What relevance does this have to the case in point - are you saying that
>> people plumped for Windows95 rather than OS/2 because of advertising ? I
>> don't think you're doing your argument any favours by going down that
>> road.
>
>Yes, what is so strange about it?
It sounds a bit like you're suggesting that issues other than the
quality or features of the products in question influenced people's
decisions to buy them.
--
ROAR UP MY TWAT!!!
------------------------------
Subject: Re: domino to apache httpd.conf conversion help needed!
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 08 Nov 2000 11:37:58 -0700
paul r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hello, Thank you for reading this! I have to convert from Lotus
> Domino Server 4.6.x to Apache 1.3.12.1. I also have to translate the
> htppd.conf file. I been successful in converting most of the Domino
> httpd.conf file to Apache but I need help with three Domino define
> directives that do not exist in Apache as those name! The following
> Lotus Domino Serverdirectives are:
ServerInit
Put this in the init script (usually in /etc/init.d or
/etc/rc.d/init.d) right before the server starts.
Service
There are a variety ways of doing this. You can map scripts onto CGI
requests via path names, server host names and many other methods. If
you just want the / (root) request sent to a program, the easiest
method is to add that program's name to the DirectoryIndex directive
and then place it in the document root. Then you'll have to
specifically allow it to run as a script.
ServerTerm
Put this in the init script (usually in /etc/init.d or
/etc/rc.d/init.d) right after the server stops.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 18:42:22 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8ubejr$3et$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:QP8O5.392$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
>
> > > You don't understand Aaron's claims, do you?
> > > It's not just the CTRL-Z, it's that it can interrupt Basic, that it's
a
> > > programming language, that it was there before.
> > > All those are clear indicatiors that Gates stole it from PDP.
> > > How could you miss that?
> >
> > Hmmm... so let's see what you just said:
> >
> > It's not just that CTRL-Z is used as an end of file marker, it's that
> CTRL-Z
> > is the end of file marker for BASIC, and that BASIC is a programming
> > language, and that CTRL-Z (or BASIC) existed before Gates wrote his
Basic.
> >
> > All of which indicates that he stole it from a PDP?
> >
> > Sorry, but that's sloppy logic at best.
>
> I was being sarcastic.
> That is Aaron's logic, as far as non-Aaron can understand it.
Ahh... in that case, my apologies. I'd just gotten home from a Political
Party (held on West Govt. Way in Seattle), and was still under the influence
of large quantities of pasta and Goldschlager :)
Fortunately I didn't have to drink the 50 shots for Nader getting more than
10% of the vote :)
Si
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 20:50:03 +0200
"The Great Suprendo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >Yes, what is so strange about it?
>
> It sounds a bit like you're suggesting that issues other than the
> quality or features of the products in question influenced people's
> decisions to buy them.
I'm not suggesting anything, I'm saying it.
There is a whole lot more of things that has to do with buying something
that the quality of it.
What makes the iMac different than normal macs? Marketing and the shape.
Likewise for the iBook.
That is why MS & Oracle & Apple and so many others software companies spend
so much money in advertising.
------------------------------
From: Toon Moene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.arch,comp.os.netware.misc
Subject: Re: Ms employees begging for food
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:51:52 +0100
Peter da Silva wrote:
> I figured that wolves need the hugs more, in general, seeing as they don't
> get cut much of a break ...
Yes, in Dutch we call that a "lage aaibaarheidsfactor" of which I,
unfortunately, don't have an inkling to the English translation.
--
Toon Moene - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - phoneto: +31 346 214290
Saturnushof 14, 3738 XG Maartensdijk, The Netherlands
GNU Fortran 77: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/g77_news.html
GNU Fortran 95: http://g95.sourceforge.net/ (under construction)
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: 2.4 Kernel Delays.
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 20:56:37 +0200
"The Great Suprendo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> A certain Ayende Rahien, of comp.os.linux.advocacy "fame", writes :
> >> IBM want to make friends in the geek contingent. They also want to have
> >> people to whom they can sell AIX once their needs outgrow Linux.
> >
> >But didn't they prove that people's need can grow out of AIX into win2k?
> >(let the flames begin)
>
> Win2K isn't on the S/390 yet, seems a bit unlikely that it will be any
> time in the future.
Well, IBM can pay MS to port it. Win2k is largely arcitecture independent.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 14:29:25 -0500
From: Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Who says Linux is great?
Craig Kelley wrote:
>
> "Aleksandar V." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Another thing why Linux is bad is memory usage: I have 32 MB of RAM, and I
> > don't want to upgrade this machine. Linux (Red Hat 6.0) with Gnome is using
> > around 33 MB alone, so it swaps immediately upon loading.
> >
> > I checked memory usage of Windows 98 (build 1998, with IE 4 SP1). It uses
> > 19 MB alone. (When IE 5 is installed, I think it's using around 24 MB.)
> >
> > So what do you have to say about performance of Linux? How does requirements
> > for 33 MB or more compares to 19?
>
> Comparing Linux to Windows98 (aka DOS) is pointless. They have
> completely different design goals and system requirements.
>
> Put Windows 2000 on that machine and watch how quickly you can browse
> the internet while burning a CD.
>
and watch how quickly your resources get ate up as well. You won't be
using Win2k in no 32 megs of RAM. At least Gnome works in 32 megs.
Win2k uses 3-4 times that, if not more.
I use win98 and with 128 megs of ram i still have a swap file being
created of about 50megs . In Linux (with 30% less workload I'd guess) my
swap is 0
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:36:44 +0000
From: Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.linux.sucks
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Ketil Z Malde wrote:
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Windows 2K (the english version) comes with several dozens of languages to
> > set as default.
> Debian ships KDE with 47 languages, independently packaged, of course,
> so you only install them as you see the need. Which ones is it you
> need?
Knowing the fellow from his posts, I'd say "the ones that are not there".
Let me think... Sumerian, Elamite, Etruscan, the unknown language
in which the Voynich Manuscript is written, the unknown language in
which the Phaistos Disk is written, and the unknown script in
which the Easter Island Tablets are written. None of them, I am sure,
are in the 47-language list of Debian. Conclusion: Debian suxxx biiig time,
Win2K [d]rooolz. QED
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 14:54:36 -0500
From: Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linvocates, true to form as usual (was dead laptop)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Name calling, false accusations and likewise all because your God
> "Linux" proves itself once again not ready for the average user. It's
> incredible the way the damage control army goes on the offensive at
> the slightest hint that Linux may not be ready for average Joe, or Ted
> in this case.
>
> This laptop belonged to a person who is a powerful vote on the local
> school board which at this very moment is considering a proposal to
> revamp all of the computer labs in the district as well as the
> satellite uplink and so forth. This is a significant bond issue and
> one that may add quite a bit to MY already $8000+ per year property
> taxes. He approached a friend of mine concerning Linux as an
> alternative, and I was the person who ultimately loaded it on his
> laptop.
>
> He did not have root access, so I suspect he might have either powered
> off the machine without shutting down, or let the batteries run down.
> I don't know, but he's not fessing up.
>
> Whatever he did, he's been doing the same thing with Windows for years
> because bad habits don't change and he hasn't ever had a problem like
> this (his words not mine).
so is that Linux's fault that he has bad habits? People who don't know
what they are doing and mess something up always say "it never did this
before".
>
> This along with MY Token Ring card not working in MY laptop is simply
> proving what others have been saying all along and that is Linux is
maybe proprietary?
> fine for those of you that enjoy typing in 70 character long cryptic
> commands to organize your CD tracks on your hard disk but for the rest
Hint: Use X windows
> of us that use a good CD Ripper like MusicMatchJukebox, we just let it
> connect to CDDB and away it goes Linux is a pure waste of time.
>
Tell the makers of MusicMatchJukeBox (Real Inc. isn't it?) to make it
for Linux and we won't have to hear you complain. Until then don't say
it's Linux's fault for Real not supporting it. Complain to Real. I'm
sure you would complain to Iomega if they didn't make a Win2k driver
because they didn't want to spend the money so what makes the reverse so
different?
> Win2k, which I have been running a couple of weeks now, just so
> overwhelms Linux in ease of use and installation as well as
> administration, from a home user point of view, that it is not even a
> close contest. i'm not interested in administering 1000 systems
> remotely, just 3 or 4 that I can walk to. Home user.
I don't administer 1000 workstations. I have Linux on my laptop and it
works fine. Netscape is shit but Linux itself runs just fine which is
better than this desktop I'm using now running 98 which I have to reboot
once every 1-2 days.
>
> I looked in the Help System exactly once because my drives wouldn't
> share, and the Help system solved the problem with one of the wizards.
> Turned out the $ after the C ( C$) is important <bg>, I didn't know
> that but in the span of 5 minutes it was fixed.
That's a first. The Troubleshooting guide actually was useful....next
time u use it and it doesn't help you let us know. I'll expect a notice
of that within a few hours.
>
> Now how many How-To's would I have to wade through to do the same or
> similar "easy if you know how" function under Linux? Where would I
> even start? If trying to get a Token Ring card working is any
> indication, Linux is in some serious deep doo doo. My eyes are sore
> from reading and trying suggestions and at this point my modules.conf
> is so screwed up I'm going to put the original back.
Put a new user who never used Windows in your place and they would have
the same trouble as if they were using Linux. Plain and simple.
Analogy: tell someone who only knows English something in German and
see how they react. Tell someone who only knows Spanish the same exact
thing in German and u will get the same reaction. B/c neither of them
know German they dont know what to do. B/c a new user doens't know the
fundamentals of a computer they wont know how to install a token ring
card either or know how to troubleshoot if there is a problem.
>
> In conclusion, the Laptop is up and running thanks to those who
> responded offline (Thanks Gavin!!!) and I gave him another lesson in
> the importance of shutting down. People like those who responded
> offline are the real Linux advocates, not the nasty, paranoid and one
> sided yo-yo's around here.
>
The first time I got Linux up and running and wanted to shut the PC down
after using it a couple hours I remembered how Windows worked and
thought I should check to see if Linux was the same way. So I looked in
my Linux book I had bought to find out if I had to do anythign special
before I turned the power off. Obviously I did. The point? I knew from
how WIndows worked that there was a possibility that Linux was the same
way. Obviously your friend didn't know too much to wonder if Linux is
the same as Windows in that respect. I'm sure he doesn't just turn
Windows off does he? Did he ever stop to wonder if that was OK or not
in Linux before trying it? I didn't think so. Whose to blame? Him
------------------------------
Reply-To: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: so REALLY, what's the matter with Microsoft?
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:47:38 GMT
"Roberto Teixeira" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>>>> "Chad" == Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Chad> NT _can_ run on almost any architecture, it just hasn't
> Chad> because of little demand.
> >> Yes, right...
>
> Chad> Do you question this?
>
> Yes. Show me your NT running in a Solaris, please.
I said "can", not does.
The NT architecture _can_ run on almost any arch.
In fact, MS had NT running on sparc internally at one point, but
never released it due to lack of demand.
-Chad
------------------------------
Reply-To: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:48:30 GMT
"Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8ubr4n$mcg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <3a080572$0$36976$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Relax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:8u8rlg$8k4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In article <3a07d40b$0$14416$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > "Relax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > "Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:8u77je$vai$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > In article <3a06de7b$0$32739$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > > > "Relax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > By the way, what is the maximum
> > > > > > partition size limit on Linux, and what is the maximum file
> size
> > > on
> > > > > 32bit
> > > > > > hardware?
> > > > >
> > > > > Assuming ext2:
> > > > >
> > > > > Max file size: 2GB, unless you use the "bigfile" patch.
> > > > > Max part size: 4TB
> > > >
> > > > 4TB maximum FS size is quite decent, but 2GB filesize is hardly an
> > > > "enterprise scale" limit. Needs to mature a bit :)
> > >
> > > Or you need to use the "bigfile" patch. You seem to enjoy selective
> > > reading.
> >
> > Oh yes, and what are you going to do, recompile Oracle to use the new
> API?
>
> What new API? Are you smoking something funny?
He was referring to the new 64-bit addressing scheme, as opposed to the existing
32-bit scheme.
-Chad
------------------------------
Reply-To: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:49:41 GMT
"Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8uc16p$s1i$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <8ua8ug$l87$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > "Paul Colquhoun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > On Tue, 07 Nov 2000 13:45:14 GMT, Chad Myers
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > |
> > > |"Paul Colquhoun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > |news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > |> On 7 Nov 2000 04:09:10 -0600, Relax <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > |> |"Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > |> |news:8u77je$vai$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > |> |> In article <3a06de7b$0$32739$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > |> |> "Relax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > |> |> > By the way, what is the maximum
> > > |> |> > partition size limit on Linux, and what is the maximum file
> size
> > on
> > > |> |> 32bit
> > > |> |> > hardware?
> > > |> |>
> > > |> |> Assuming ext2:
> > > |> |>
> > > |> |> Max file size: 2GB, unless you use the "bigfile" patch.
> > > |> |> Max part size: 4TB
> > > |> |
> > > |> |4TB maximum FS size is quite decent, but 2GB filesize is hardly
> an
> > > |> |"enterprise scale" limit. Needs to mature a bit :)
> > > |> |
> > > |> |Released in 1993, NTFS's maximum file size is 16EB, which means
> > "unlimited"
> > > |> |for all practical purposes.
> > > |>
> > > |>
> > > |> Please stop blaming the ext2 file system for the 2Gb limit.
> > > |
> > > |You need a patch to fix it.
> > > |
> > > |How easily available is this patch?
> > > |
> > > |Do any distributions come with it enabled by default?
> > > |
> > > |What are the downfalls of this patch?
> > > |
> > > |Has it been thoroughly tested? Regression tested?
> > > |
> > > |Filesystem drivers are Big Things, you can't have filesystem
> > > |corruption in an enterprise environment and ext2 already
> > > |has a bad name in that regard.
> > >
> > >
> > > No patch to ext2 is required. The ext2 code on Intel already
> supports
> > > large files, as it is the same code that is running on Alpha and
> SPAC64
> > > to support large files.
> > >
> > > Please pay attention.
> >
> > You need a patch for x86, right?
> > x86 makes up for the majority of the computers of the world.
> > Therefor, you are most likely to need a patch.
>
> It is not a patch to ext2.
Which version of the Linux kernel are you referring to? IIRC,
all the major distros are shipping a kernel which does not have
the bigfile patch implemented, and as such, requires a seperate
download and installation of the patch to recognize the new
>2GB addressing.
-Chad
------------------------------
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