Linux-Advocacy Digest #121, Volume #35 Sun, 10 Jun 01 23:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? (mlw)
Re: UI Importance (Ed Allen)
Re: UI Importance (Ed Allen)
Re: Windows makes good coasters (GreyCloud)
Re: Windows makes good coasters (GreyCloud)
Re: The usual Linux spiel... (was Re: Is Open Source for You?) (GreyCloud)
Re: The usual Linux spiel... (was Re: Is Open Source for You?) (GreyCloud)
Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags (Norman D. Megill)
Re: Sack of shit -c ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Jesse F. Hughes)
Re: XP finally reveals it true colors!!! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: XP finally reveals it true colors!!! ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: What Microsoft's CEO should do (GreyCloud)
Re: Windows advocate of the year. (GreyCloud)
Re: Redhat video problems. (flatfish+++)
Re: Redhat video problems. (flatfish+++)
Re: Redhat video problems. (flatfish+++)
Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals ("Goddess")
Re: Redhat video problems. (flatfish+++)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("JS \\ PL")
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Josh McKee)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:06:13 -0400
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> "Rene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:pwTU6.38562$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > 1.- Is Linux (kernel) programmed on C or C++?
> > 2.- Is GNOME programmed on C or C++?
> >
> >
> > Is this the wrong place to post this question? Sorry I apologize, could
> you
> > please be so kind to point me to the right news group?
> >
> Linux is written in C, like all UNIX's, GNOME, I am not too sure, however, I
> do know KDE is written in C++, as they donot require the same low level
> access as an OS kernel requires.
Why do people always assume that C++ can't do what C can do? It is absurd. Low
level access has absolutely nothing to do with it. There is almost nothing you
can do in C which can not also be done in C++.
The kernel is written in C, although one can write modules in C++ were one to
desire to do so.
<RANT>
GNOME is written in C for some stupidly flawed logic. I have yet to see a
reasonable explanation, with the possible exception that the original
developers only knew C and decided that ignorance was a better strategy than
actually learning about computers and computing languages.
KDE, IMHO, is far more stable BECAUSE it uses C++. GNOME is a pitiful hack
which attempts an object oriented paradigm who's design criteria directly
adheres to the strengths of C++, yet they chose not to use C++.
It is a shame that so much development time and effort has been dedicated to a
project which was a failure from the very start.
</RANT>
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:01:04 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Free market capitalism is a wonderful thing, but it is possible to fuck
>up even a wonderful thing by not understanding what it is that makes it
>wonderful. When physical realities prevent open competition, then free
>markets are not possible, and capitalization and profit-seeking must be
>regulated.
>
That is a keeper. Way to live you .sig
--
Microsoft is trying to add to the list of biggest lies of all time:
"Hi. I'm from Microsoft and I am here to protect you from the threat of
the GPL."
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: UI Importance
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:01:03 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Said Ed Allen in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:01:02
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>
>>[eallen@allenhome rename]$ for n in *
>>> do
>>> mv $n ${n%gif}bak
>>> done
Notice that that loop is done entirely with 'bash' builtins.
That shows the kind of power differential between DOS and Unix
shells because the same loop works for 'ksh'.
>
>Well, thanks. But I'm confused. What is "ls *.zip | sed
>-e's/\(.*\).zip/mv & \1.blah' | sh" for, if 'rename' works the way it
>does (nominally) on Windows?
>
Commands that we learned ten years ago still work the same as they
always did but simpler, more modern replacements often exist.
Old hands may not have bothered to learn enough to know that
'bash' can entirely replace the above pipe. Linux has lots of
additional utilities which were not in traditional Unix.
There is always something else, most of it brand new, to learn.
Even enthusiasts do not learn everything Unix offers, in spite of
constant learning. I only learned that RedHat included 'rename' when
I checked after reading your posts. ('man -k' is invaluable)
I often find that Linux includes useful commands which I miss when I
return to a proprietary version of Unix. Vendors are slowly
learning that their offerings lack conveniences which users sorely
need and they are beginning to include them as part of standard
installs. That is why they are advertising "Linux compatibility, is
now being included".
Jon Hall has likened commercial Unix and Windows systems to a honky-
tonk piano and a multicolored plastic child's toy. You can make
pretty good music on the first and you might be able to produce
something akin to music on the toy but in each case you are left
with a feeling that you must overcome the limits of each instrument
to do your best. He came to that after sitting in front of a Linux
system gave him the realization that Linux was like a Steinway when
compared to them both. With a Steinway you know immediately that
the instrument will be equal to whatever you can do.
--
Microsoft is trying to add to the list of biggest lies of all time:
"Hi. I'm from Microsoft and I am here to protect you from the threat of
the GPL."
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows makes good coasters
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:00:54 -0700
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "JS \ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:08:02 -0500, Chad Myers
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> > message
> > > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Chris Ahlstrom
> > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >> wrote
> > > >> on Wed, 09 May 2001 11:45:50 GMT
> > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > >> >Steve Sheldon wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >[a lot of troll-shit snipped]
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Guys, Steve here is obviously trolling.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> Yes, crashing out of X-Windows back to a console is pretty routine.
> > >
> > > Of course, that is an outright lie.
> >
> > Come on. It's usually the first experience people have with X Windows.
> > Watching X crash back to a console prompt that is.
>
> No, the FIRST experience is editing that rediculous config file and
> trying to get your drivers and the clock rate and the resolution and
> all the other parameters set correctly. Then, run startx and watch
> X crash and burn or lock the machine entirely, reboot, wait for
> fsck, then try it all again.
>
> -c
Why don't you get a more up to date version of linux. Sounds like you
were using a version of slackware 3.5 or earlier. Don't have to do
these things in the latest versions.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows makes good coasters
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:02:55 -0700
Stuart Fox wrote:
>
> "Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Well, Chad, You can be a knothead but seems like everytime we
> > enter this discussion about setting up Video cards you magically
> > forget to tell them all about XF86Setup which is a graphical
> > configuration tool for video and X. Almost any monkey can
> > use this tool to set up their video in less than 3 minutes.
>
> Try running XF86Setup on an AST PC with an ATI Mach32 chip on the
> motherboard. X will not run afterwards, and will not run until you edit the
> config file.
Most of the ASTs I've ever run into weren't all that great.
Costco back in 97 got burned on an allotment of those. People kept
bringing them back in because they just died. They were actually worse
than Packard-Bell.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The usual Linux spiel... (was Re: Is Open Source for You?)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:06:51 -0700
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > LOL!! :-)) I was looking at the other companies' software lineup...
> > they'll recompile the same product for a new o/s and charge more for it.
>
> It wouldn't surprise me at all.
> I just wonder how compelling 64bits really is, enough to make ISV develop
> for it?
> Win64 info is still on its way to me, so I can't tell you if there is
> anything there that is good enough to make an ISV lock its product from
> IA32.
> Databases will certainly use it, and servers, I suppose, but other than
> that?
You've pretty much covered it all. 64-bit has one other valuable use...
simulations.
Very fast simulations... games. Very large databases need 64-bit and
servers need 64-bit. I don't... but at $950 for a 64-bit sparc IIe that
hard to resist.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The usual Linux spiel... (was Re: Is Open Source for You?)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:08:18 -0700
Mark wrote:
>
> In article <EhLU6.13627$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> >"Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:9fvbkh$5n$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >>
> >> > LOL!! :-)) I was looking at the other companies' software lineup...
> >> > they'll recompile the same product for a new o/s and charge more for it.
> >>
> >> It wouldn't surprise me at all.
> >> I just wonder how compelling 64bits really is, enough to make ISV develop
> >> for it?
> >> Win64 info is still on its way to me, so I can't tell you if there is
> >> anything there that is good enough to make an ISV lock its product from
> >> IA32.
> >> Databases will certainly use it, and servers, I suppose, but other than
> >> that?
> >
> >Graphics or 3D apps? Anything that's heavily (x) intensive probably
> >will. (x) being IO, graphics, memory, etc.
> >
>
> ah, I can hear it all again - 640k is enough for anyone.
>
> --
> Mark Kent
Hehehe.... yes, this one keeps biting all of us on the rear-end. :-)
I remember someone in Apple asking "Who could possibly use more than 16K
of memory?"
--
V
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Norman D. Megill)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:10:46 GMT
In article <wnSU6.759$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Norman D. Megill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <9fua39$1ek$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Ayende Rahien <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/rcnews.asp?Symbol=CTXS
>>http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/research/profile.asp?Symbol=CTXS
>>http://www.citrix.com/
>>http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.asp?Symbol=CTXS
>>http://moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/webquote.dll?ipage=qd&Symbol=CTXS
>>http://search.msn.com/results.asp?RS=CHECKED&Dom=il&un=doc&v=1&q=CITRIX
>>
It is also worth noting that the MSN pages typically have several ads,
so they have come up with a sneeky way increase their ad revenue. In
effect MS is putting multiple advertisements for its own web sites on
other people's pages, with no compensation to the page owners.
And can you really trust information you get from MS to be unbiased? It
is well known that MS even rewrites history in what is supposed to be an
unbiased reference source (Encarta) to suit its agenda, e.g.
http://www.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/12/18feature.html
http://www.simplyfamily.com/entertainment/books/reviews/history-06-30-99.cfm
Add to that the recent FUD ramblings of MS leaders about open source, as
well as all kinds of one-sided viewpoints in their marketing literature.
Users will be buying into a giant MS marketing, advertising, and
propaganda machine without even knowing it. From MS's point of view
it's actually brilliant. But for everyone else I don't see this as a
good thing.
--Norm
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sack of shit -c
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:09:24 +1200
Chad Myers.
Matthew Gardiner
"Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Charlie Ebert wrote:
> >
> > How many people feel the -c man is a sack
> > of shit?
> >
> > Sound OFF!
> >
> > --
> > Charlie
> > -------
>
> Who is -c?
>
> --
> - Brent
>
> "General Veer, prepare your underpants for ground assault."
> - Darth Vader
>
> http://rotten168.home.att.net
------------------------------
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jesse F. Hughes)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:12:28 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Jesse F. Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > While I agree that the reaction on this group has been more extreme
> > than is warranted, the MS feature is distasteful in a way that the
> > Netscape feature is not. Specifically, it rather prominently suggests
> > related pages by altering the presentation of the page itself. The
> > Netscape feature is a much less visible menu in the menubar (one which
> > I had never viewed until just now).
>
> HTML is not a presentation definition language. It's open to interpretation
> by the client and isn't a precise page definition, though it is growing more
> and more into that.
>
Fair enough, but one still would like a reasonable connection between
the intent of the author and the final presentation of the page.
Presumably, if Konqueror replaced every occurrence of "Erik
Funkenbusch" with "great gobs of green and greasy gopher guts", you
wouldn't defend the practice by noting that HTML isn't a presentation
definition language.
Similarly, as a page author, I might be reasonably upset that MS
draws my page in a manner that is intended to increase traffic at its
own site[1]. I would certainly be reasonably offended if every smart
tag directs the reader to a page disputing the messages on my own
page. The fact that HTML is not a presentation definition language
does not make my reaction unreasonable.
There are at least two (somewhat) distinct worries here. The first is
that MS takes every opportunity to advertise its own sites, even on
top of the writings of others. The second, more worrisome, prediction
is that MS also exercises editorial bias (say, linking every mention
of Linux to its anti-Linux pages). The former concern seems very
likely to me; I don't know about the latter.
Footnotes:
[1] I'm not saying that MS's smart tags implementation is necessarily
biased for its own site, as I haven't seen it in action aside from
Ayende's posting. Nonetheless, past behavior has suggested that
MS-owned sites are rather likely to be over-represented in the smart
tags. In time, we will see the extent to which predictions of
editorial bias in the smart tags are warranted.
--
Jesse Hughes
"Casting [Demi] Moore as a woman who has come to the New World so that
she can 'worship without fear or persecution' in _The_Scarlet_Letter_
is like casting Bruce Willis as Young Rene Descartes." -Joe Queenan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: XP finally reveals it true colors!!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:18:29 GMT
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
> Some of the features are non-events, and most people have seen them coming
> weeks before the announcement. In short, sweet conclusion, if you don't
> like it, don't use it.
<snip>
I'll bet at least 80% of computer use is by employees who have
no choice of what OS to use.
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: XP finally reveals it true colors!!!
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:23:14 +1200
Management makes the decision on whether they should waste $1500 per desktop
in software costs, not the employee. However, when the shit hits the fan,
its not the management that takes the shit, its the poor employee. Maybe
some of these companies should take a more of an "Open Business" approach
used by Hubbard's Cereals or Comalco Aluminum and including the input of
employees when making decisions that will effect them in their working
environment.
Matthew Gardiner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:VTVU6.107374$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> > Some of the features are non-events, and most people have seen them
coming
> > weeks before the announcement. In short, sweet conclusion, if you don't
> > like it, don't use it.
> <snip>
>
> I'll bet at least 80% of computer use is by employees who have
> no choice of what OS to use.
>
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What Microsoft's CEO should do
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:25:25 -0700
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > pip wrote:
> > >
> > > GreyCloud wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'd highly doubt this very much on your last statement here. That is
> > > > why intel made these processors like this in the first place. That is
> > > > why Linux is quite stable in regards to isolation from the graphics
> > > > interface. I guess Dave Cutler knew what he was talking about when he
> > > > originally wrote NT. (Keep the kernel in ring 0 and the rest in the
> > > > other rings.)
> > >
> > > I 100% agree!
> > > The plot thickens - so why did he change ?
> >
> > Only rumour you know, but insiders said Gates was paying David a real
> > high salary at the time. As soon as the orignial NT was finished and
> > working, Gates let him go. Gates then turned around and took the NT
> > code and tried to put a GUI around it. It failed miserable and Gates
> > couldn't get his pet project on the market fast enough. So he paid even
> > more money for David to come back and fix it up. It ran too slow for
> > Bills' taste and wanted to know if there was a way to speed it up.
> > Someone suggested to shove the video in with the kernel, and then a
> > heated argument erupted over it. Gates then fired David, and tried out
> > this idea and found it worked to his desires. Just rumour mind you.
>
> This story doesn't fit the timeline.
>
> NT had a GUI in the beta stage for starters, long before Cutler would have
> "finished" it. Secondly, They didn't move the GUI into the kernel until NT
> 4, which was 1996, 3 years after NT first came out.
Mind you it was the "rumour" I've heard. But I did read in the Seattle
Times that microsoft did fire David Cutler and later had to beg him to
come back. Not really sure what the true gist of this as nobody will
ever know the truth except the person that fired David and David
himself.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows advocate of the year.
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:27:18 -0700
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > >
> > > "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Mart van de Wege wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > In article <9fi5n6$89j$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Edward Rosten"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Not all windows advocates are bad.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They are capable of reasoned, rational arguments (though you might
> not
> > > > > > believe it with the amount of drivel coming out of people like
> Chad
> > > > > > Myers).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think we should have a Wincvocate of the year nominated (it
> makes a
> > > > > > change from nominating trolls).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would like to nominate Ayende Rahien. If all windows advocates
> were
> > > > > > like this, this group would be a much better place. Heck, if all
> Linux
> > > > > > advocates were like this, he group would be a better place.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Ed
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Second that and I nominate Erik F. for second place (like most
> people
> > > > > seem to do). Both are very reasonable people, though Erik is a
> little
> > > > > more stubborn, and that tends to get people irritated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mart
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes, Eric seems to have demonstrated quite a bit of computer lore and
> > > > knowledge.
> > > > He's okay to argue with. I'd just wish he'd try out more o/ses on
> > > > different platforms to get a better feel for things. I get the
> feeling
> > > > a lot that he is more neutral on a lot of topics than we think.
> > >
> > > I have extensively used many OS's.
> > >
> > > Windows
> > > Dos
> > > Amiga
> > > Mac
> > > OS/2
> > > BeOS
> > > QNX
> > > Various flavors of Unix
> > > VMS
> > > AS/400
> > > DOS/VSE
> > > VM
> > > MVS
> >
> > An impressive list. Which ones did you get to administrate for the
> > longest period of time?
>
> Well, I've never administered the OS/400, VMS and MVS machines, but I've
> been the administrator/effective adminstrator on the rest (most of them
> don't have "administrators").
I only administered VMS and my other mainframe was an AN/UYK-7 dual
frame using Ultra-32 by Sperry Rand.
--
V
------------------------------
From: flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Redhat video problems.
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:31:36 GMT
On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:46:56 +0200, "Mart van de Wege"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi flatty,
>
>Tried that link yet I posted for you this week?
>
>Mart
Yes but it didn't work. The other distros will either get the wrong
Trident model, or if they get it correct no matter what I select as
refresh rates etc it won't work.
I'm using the exact same selections I use under RH 6.1 or an older
SuSE which works fine.
flatfish+++
"Why do they call it a flatfish?"
------------------------------
From: flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Redhat video problems.
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:32:52 GMT
On 11 Jun 2001 10:09:45 +1200, "Matthew Gardiner"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Then why don't you reconfigure it to the correct model and correct the monitor
>refresh rate. SuSE Linux 7.1 does that with out any problems.
Sax and Sax2 both die with some message about font path not being
correct?
I did a default install and made sure the SVGA driver was installed
because earlier versions of SuSE left it out of default install.
flatfish+++
"Why do they call it a flatfish?"
------------------------------
From: flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Redhat video problems.
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:34:09 GMT
On 10 Jun 2001 23:48:00 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
wrote:
>Flatty: Installing Linux in most cases is a breeze.
So then why is he having trouble?
I guess he isn't a most case.
He May be a basket case by now though.
flatfish+++
"Why do they call it a flatfish?"
------------------------------
From: "Goddess" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why homosexuals are no threat to heterosexuals
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:44:54 -0700
"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9g16ij$onq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Brock Hannibal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> > <9fvu1k$skg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > >> Wouldn't that depend on what exactly you were teaching them
> > >> about it? While I don't shield my son from the fact that
> > >> homosexuality exists I don't think I want to teach him that it's
> > >> desirable or glamorous. I must admit the homosexual lifestyle
> > >> and sexual behaviors are not something that I want my male child
> > >> aspiring to. There, afterall, are many consequences of that
> > >> choice that might not include the kinds of outcomes I want for
> > >> my son. I think at 10 years old as his gender related sexuality
> > >> is just emerging, I don't want people preaching the benefits of
> > >> homosexuality to him. Just as I prefer not to allow people to
> > >> preach their religions to him. I'll handle teaching him about
> > >> love, life and religion, the schools can handle teaching him
> > >> reading, writing and arithmetic, thank you very much.
> > >
> > >Lets say, in theory, your son has a pretty normal (well, as normal
> > >as you can be) hetrosexual up bringing, and learns to
> > >accept/tolerate people with different sexual preferences, and you
> > >and your son have an open father-son relationship in which your
> > >son can talk to about anything. However, hypothetically, at the
> > >age of, say, 17, he comes to you and says, "dad, I'm gay". What
> > >would your response be?
> > >
> > >Matthew Gardiner
> >
> > In all truthfulness I can't say I would be happy about it. I'm not
> > sure how I would respond, exactly. I wouldn't disinherit him or
> > anything like that. I would try to make sure he really knew what all
> > the consequences of his choice would be. That's about the best I
> > can do in this hypothetical situation.
> >
> > None of that has anything to do with the schools teaching about
> > homosexuality. It's not their role, in my opinion.
>
> Personally, if I had a son, and he came to me and said he was gay, I would
> neither be disappointed or proud.
I like your response.
I would be happy that he was able to
> "come out" as so to speak, and that he was willing to talk about any
issues
> he may have.
Exactly! That is precisely what I said to the daughter of a friend of mine
when she told ME that she was a lesbian. I was happy that she felt able to
tell me and to discuss any issues she has/had.
I would give him the same advice as as I would give a
> hetrosexual son, be careful, use contraception, remember that if you need
> support, that I (as a father) will always be there.
Very good, IMO. You are a good father.
Marg
> Matthew Gardiner
>
>
------------------------------
From: flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Redhat video problems.
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:38:03 GMT
On 10 Jun 2001 23:59:29 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
wrote:
>Bone arrow heads "worked just fine" for Flatties ancestors, but those
>silly Cro-Magnon man flint tips were just "too hard" to make.
Nope.
Bill Gates passed out Ronson Lighters and we no longer had to rely on
scratching stones together.
flatfish+++
"Why do they call it a flatfish?"
------------------------------
From: "JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:40:10 -0400
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> What the fuck? Anyone who can afford to upgrade their computer every
> >> two years may as well just buy a gold monitor and diamond studded
> >> keyboard and have done with it.
> >
> >You sound broke.
>
> No, but I would be if I had to keep upgrading my computer as often as
> microsoft thinks I have to.
You'd be broke if you upgraded your computer every two years? Damn, what are
you doing sitting here reading this?! Go mow a lawn.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Josh McKee)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:49:01 GMT
On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 14:47:44 GMT, "Daniel Johnson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Josh McKee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:35:55 -0400, "Lance Togar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>[snip]
>> I believe the arguement revolves around the fact that the web author
>> is no longer in complete control over how their web content is viewed.
>> One cannot merely avoid this issue by "not buying it" because it is
>> the site visitors and not the site owner who will need to "not buy
>> it".
>
>OTOH, the web author never was in complete
>control of this. No two web browsers are the
>same about how they render things, you know.
>
>HTML is just not the right tool to use if you
>want that kind of control.
And this changes what I said how? Regardless of what you have written
(and the validity/invalidity of such statements) it isn't as easy as
"then don't buy it".
Josh
------------------------------
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