Linux-Advocacy Digest #259, Volume #30 Wed, 15 Nov 00 23:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Chad Myers")
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Chad Myers")
Re: OS stability (sfcybear)
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here... (Gary Hallock)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... (Gary Hallock)
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... (Gary Hallock)
Re: OS stability (sfcybear)
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? ("Les Mikesell")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Russ Lyttle)
Re: RedHat BugList Summary (Bob Hauck)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 02:56:00 GMT
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Email viruses are easily defeated with rules and virus scanning software.
>
> ... provided you and the scanning software know about it, which is
> unlikely in the case of almost every new virus.
Most scanners have hueristics which can detect most scripting viruses.
I also forgot to mention that disabling scripting it also an option
which would prevent scripting-type viruses.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 02:57:11 GMT
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:41IQ5.8690$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Email viruses are easily defeated with rules and virus scanning software.
> >
> > ... provided you and the scanning software know about it, which is
> > unlikely in the case of almost every new virus.
>
> Most scanners have hueristics which can detect most scripting viruses.
>
> I also forgot to mention that disabling scripting it also an option
> which would prevent scripting-type viruses.
heuristics rather.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS stability
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 03:14:34 GMT
the false name is to stop trolls like you from spaming me. People ignore
the topic and do nothing but insult are so imature that they think they
accomlish something by subscribing me to news groups and sending out
spam with my email addres as the return address. I have never questiond
you integity as a Linux contributer, Thank you for your contribution. I
question your integrity as a person. The fact is, You came in the
conversation insuling me and dispite repeated request to keep to the
subject you have continued to do nothing but insult me. In my book that
is the behavior of a jerk. You behave like a jerk, you are a jerk. Your
contributions to linux do not change that. The fact that you seem to
think that your contributions to linux makes you a better person than me
is very sad. Just plain pathetic.
Do you have anything to contibute to the subject or is it more insults
as usual?
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 23:52:10 GMT, sfcybear wrote:
> >no, I potray you as a jerk. Linux supporter or not.
>
> So who's hurling insults around now ? You have clearly questioned my
> integrity as a Linux supporter in this thread and in other threads,
> and now that I've demonstrated that your attacks are utterly baseless,
> you resort to insults.
>
> I can see why you choose to post under a false name.
>
> --
> Donovan
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 03:24:37 GMT
"Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 08:19:41 GMT, Les Mikesell wrote:
> >
>
> >Part of the problem is debugging this complexity. If you have an obscure
> >problem in your own complex C code, you have a reasonable chance
> >of debugging it. I
>
> But you're considerably more likely to have the problem.
Only if the compiler is perfect. Has that been your experience?
The first c++ programs I saw come around in the unix
open source area, like Sam Leffler's Hylafax had to be
matched precisely with a version of g++. Every time either
the source or the compiler version changed it took a new
round of patches to make it work, and then people
who couldn't match the compiler version on the OS they
used would have trouble. (And by the way, does anyone
know if this was the same Sam Leffler whose name appeared
in the credits of Toy Story 2?).
> > f the bug is in the complex things the compiler
> >has done you
>
> Not likely in practice. What kind of "complex things" are you referring to
?
Who knows? One set of developers here is working on a test wrapper
for some other things, and depending on which service pack they
have applied to the compiler, a whole loop may disappear.
> I'd say that the compiler "doing things for you" helps. For example,
memory
> management problems tend to be isolated inside destructors instead of
> scattered throughout your code. For example, every time you copy a string
> in C, or read a string from an external source, you've just created a
> potential memory management error. I'd argue that replacing these zillions
> of managed arrays in client code with a single managed array in
> the string class is a very good thing.
If it is completely reliable. If it isn't what do you do? You can fix
the part you did wrong in your own code.
> > will probably just have to try different things until
> >the problem goes away.
>
> Well if this is your approach, you're probably not a very good C++
> programmer.
I'm not. But with a decent debugger I can usually track down
mistakes in C.
> > g++ has not been all that reliable at
> >least until recently (does it have a complete STL yet?). The
>
> Nope. Close, but not completely-complete.
How do you deal with portability issues then? And how do
you learn the language if you can't follow a standard reference?
Using STL seems to me to be the whole point of c++ and I
don't think I'd want to learn how to work around not having it.
> >windows developers where I work always have to specify
> >the service pack needed for visual c++ to build any particular
> >product. How do people deal with this lack of reliability?
>
> Well, the GNOME developers also have to specify a version of GTK and
> the GNOME libs, and glib, right ??? We even had *compile time*
incompatibilites
> with libc versions just a few years back. (For example, GNOME required
glibc)
> So the problems with "lack of reliability" as you call it plague everyone
> besides the luddites who are willing to work with crude and primitive
> development tools.
I think the correct terms are 'standard' and 'reliable'. There is also the
issue that there is no binary standard for c++ libs so it is unlikely
that different parts of a project can be built with different compilers.
> I mean, "Visual C++" is not just a C++ implementation, it also comes with
> an application development framework, and this is constantly evolving.
But that is not the only part that breaks. We went through the same
thing 15 years ago with C, so I can understand people waiting until
everything will compile the same source before switching. One
long-term project here actually has the compilers checked into
cvs along with the source because you must use the same compiler
if you want to reconstruct an old version of a program or it is unlikely
to work.
> As far as stability goes, C++ *is* better than most other languages -- it
> is one of the few languages that has a written standard that many vendors
> come reasonably close to complying to (the only other language in the same
> class here is C)
Of course, but C is the one that you seem to be questioning.
> If we wanted everything to be "reliable" in the above sense, we'd all
> program in ancient languages and ancient APIs and resist all technology.
I don't understand. What is the alternative that you consider better?
> Again, this would be true to the spirit of the "luddite" movement.
However,
> those who join the luddite movement should not use GNOME or GTK, because
> these are object oriented, make heavy use of CORBA, and are certainly not
> stable.
Is there some plan to make them so?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:25:04 -0500
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:08:27 -0500, Gary Hallock
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Because your an idiot. My modem works fine. Even my winmodem works
> >fine. I recently picked up an Epson 880 printer for $150. It works
>
> Ah yes the classic Linonut response "because it works for me everyone
> else must be an idiot".
>
> Do your fellow Linonuts and future Linonuts a favor and take a walk
> over to some of the setup groups and let the folks asking these same
> questions over and over again know how well Linux works for "you" and
> how the problem must be with them. "All of them".
> I'm sure in all of their frustration trying to get Linux to work, they
> will be happy to hear how well it works for "you".
>
> claire
Ah, yes, the classic Winonut repsonse. "because YOU can't get it to work
Linux is crap".
Gary
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:27:51 -0500
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> My my but we are getting nasty today.
>
> You're starting to sound like jedi :(
>
> Pretty soon you might start adding the word "hardly" to every
> sentence.
>
> claire
>
But it really is very simple to install wine. If you can't do it, then you
have no brain:
rpm -Uvh wine*.rpm
man wine.conf
follow the instructions to adjust wine.conf for your local environment.
Gary
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 03:29:44 GMT
"CC Ghost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3a1302fe$0$93849$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Les Mikesell wrote in message ...
> <snip>
> >The
> >windows developers where I work always have to specify
> >the service pack needed for visual c++ to build any particular
> >product. How do people deal with this lack of reliability?
>
> In most cases I have seen, the requirement for a
> specific service pack is usually due to improper
> or incomplete configuration management rather
> than a deficiency on the part of the compiler.
I'm not an expert in this area but in this case
I think there are actual differences in the
code generated from the same source.
> Developers in Windows environments tend
> to constantly install toys and beta products that
> mess with shared DLLs and registry settings,
> and the recommendation for a specific service
> pack is not to alter the behavior of the compiler
> (something MS does not usually do in a service
> pack, anyway), but to repair damage to
> development machine configurations caused
> by developer carelessness.
No, I am pretty sure this isn't the case because
some of the differences are reproducible
by building on a freshly installed machine
without the service pack.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:36:35 -0500
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Chad Myers wrote:
> "Go to file -> print
>
> What happens?
>
> -Chad
Ok, I did that. notepad can't find a printer. Apparently the registry and
win.ini need to be adjusted and notepad has no menu to select or configure a
printer. Reading the posts from comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine, I see
others have gotten print to work from notepad. I have no desire to use
notepad so have not pursued this. However, the previous posts talked about
how, if notepad can not be made to work with wine, then nothing can. Well,
that is just plain false. Lotus Notes, including printing, works just fine
under wine. The fact is that no one in their right mind would want to use
notepad on Linux. Notepad simply serves as a simple app to try first to see
if you have installed wine properly. Any problems specific to notepad are
not likely to be high on the list of things to fix. More useful apps get
more attention.
Gary
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS stability
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 03:29:12 GMT
First prove were I said you were and anti-linux anything? Be spacific!
Second please count up the number of times you have insulted me and
compare it to how many times I have insulted you! Count up how many
times I have asked you to say something that has ANYTHING to do with the
subject then count how many times you have sais anything about the
subject at hand. The fact is you have said NOTHING about the subject.
The only reason you have joined this thread was to insult me. Dispite my
requests to stay on the subject you have continued to insult me. In my
book, that is the behavior of a jerk. If you don't want to be called a
jerk the quit behaving like one! Didn't your mother ever teach you that!
Let's see, you hang your contibutions to linux out like it makes you
some kind of hero, that I call ego based behavior, yes.
The fact that I tied your behavior to the poor behavior of the
winvocates in this group does not mean I think you a winvocate, it means
you exibit the same poor behavior as the winvocats here. You refuse to
address the topic, You continualy insult me then act as if I started it
when I after sitting though SOOOOOO many insutls from you, I call you a
jerk (If you can't handle being insutled then don't BE INSULTING).
Pathetic. You seem to think that your linux contibutions exuse your
behavior. I say that is not true. Being coming into a thread with no
intention of joining the disscution but to do nothing but insulting is
very poor and imature behavior. May I suggest you stop programing for a
while and go out to the real world and get some social skills.
Now, will you finaly address the topic?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 03:40:38 GMT
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Without good memory management, you can't do a non-trivial program very
> > well. I don't care what anyone says, garbage collectors don't work in
> > complex systems. You either end up running too slowly because the memory
> > manager is taking up too much time, or your process bloats because the
> > memory manager isn't doing enough.
>
> Care to explain that to my Java servlets then?
>
Someone here wrote some java servlets using xml and an xslt
transformation and they appear to grow by the size of every response,
never releasing any memory. I kill the whole jvm when it hits 40 megs
(every hour or so). Fortunately apache knows how to restart it. How do you
make a servlet free it's memory?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Russ Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 03:42:53 GMT
Sam Morris wrote:
>
> If you actually had done that you would have seen something similar to this:
>
> C:\>help
>
> For more information on a specific command, type HELP command-name.
> ASSOC Displays or modifies file extension associations
> AT Schedules commands and programs to run on a computer.
> ATTRIB Displays or changes file attributes.
> BREAK Sets or clears extended CTRL+C checking.
> CACLS Displays or modifies access control lists (ACLs) of files.
> CALL Calls one batch program from another.
> CD Displays the name of or changes the current directory.
> CHCP Displays or sets the active code page number.
> CHDIR Displays the name of or changes the current directory.
> CHKDSK Checks a disk and displays a status report.
> CHKNTFS Displays or modifies the checking of disk at boot time.
> CLS Clears the screen.
> CMD Starts a new instance of the Windows 2000 command interpreter.
> COLOR Sets the default console foreground and background colors.
> COMP Compares the contents of two files or sets of files.
> COMPACT Displays or alters the compression of files on NTFS partitions.
> CONVERT Converts FAT volumes to NTFS. You cannot convert the
> current drive.
> COPY Copies one or more files to another location.
> DATE Displays or sets the date.
> DEL Deletes one or more files.
> DIR Displays a list of files and subdirectories in a directory.
> DISKCOMP Compares the contents of two floppy disks.
> DISKCOPY Copies the contents of one floppy disk to another.
> DOSKEY Edits command lines, recalls Windows 2000 commands, and creates
> macros
>
> ECHO Displays messages, or turns command echoing on or off.
> ENDLOCAL Ends localization of environment changes in a batch file.
> ERASE Deletes one or more files.
> EXIT Quits the CMD.EXE program (command interpreter).
> FC Compares two files or sets of files, and displays the differences
> between them.
> FIND Searches for a text string in a file or files.
> FINDSTR Searches for strings in files.
> FOR Runs a specified command for each file in a set of files.
> FORMAT Formats a disk for use with Windows 2000.
> FTYPE Displays or modifies file types used in file extension
> associations.
> GOTO Directs the Windows 2000 command interpreter to a labeled line in a
> batch program.
> GRAFTABL Enables Windows 2000 to display an extended character set in
> graphics
> mode.
> HELP Provides Help information for Windows 2000 commands.
> IF Performs conditional processing in batch programs.
> LABEL Creates, changes, or deletes the volume label of a disk.
> MD Creates a directory.
> MKDIR Creates a directory.
> MODE Configures a system device.
> MORE Displays output one screen at a time.
> MOVE Moves one or more files from one directory to another directory.
> PATH Displays or sets a search path for executable files.
> PAUSE Suspends processing of a batch file and displays a message.
> POPD Restores the previous value of the current directory saved by
> PUSHD.
> PRINT Prints a text file.
> PROMPT Changes the Windows 2000 command prompt.
> PUSHD Saves the current directory then changes it.
> RD Removes a directory.
> RECOVER Recovers readable information from a bad or defective disk.
> REM Records comments (remarks) in batch files or CONFIG.SYS.
> REN Renames a file or files.
> RENAME Renames a file or files.
> REPLACE Replaces files.
> RMDIR Removes a directory.
> SET Displays, sets, or removes Windows 2000 environment variables.
> SETLOCAL Begins localization of environment changes in a batch file.
> SHIFT Shifts the position of replaceable parameters in batch files.
> SORT Sorts input.
> START Starts a separate window to run a specified program or command.
> SUBST Associates a path with a drive letter.
> TIME Displays or sets the system time.
> TITLE Sets the window title for a CMD.EXE session.
> TREE Graphically displays the directory structure of a drive or path.
> TYPE Displays the contents of a text file.
> VER Displays the Windows 2000 version.
> VERIFY Tells Windows 2000 whether to verify that your files are written
> correctly to a disk.
> VOL Displays a disk volume label and serial number.
> XCOPY Copies files and directory trees.
>
> C:\>help dir
> Displays a list of files and subdirectories in a directory.
>
> DIR [drive:][path][filename] [/A[[:]attributes]] [/B] [/C] [/D] [/L] [/N]
> [/O[[:]sortorder]] [/P] [/Q] [/S] [/T[[:]timefield]] [/W] [/X] [/4]
>
> [drive:][path][filename]
> Specifies drive, directory, and/or files to list.
>
> /A Displays files with specified attributes.
> attributes D Directories R Read-only files
> H Hidden files A Files ready for archiving
> S System files - Prefix meaning not
> /B Uses bare format (no heading information or summary).
> /C Display the thousand separator in file sizes. This is the
> default. Use /-C to disable display of separator.
> /D Same as wide but files are list sorted by column.
> /L Uses lowercase.
> /N New long list format where filenames are on the far right.
> /O List by files in sorted order.
> sortorder N By name (alphabetic) S By size (smallest first)
> E By extension (alphabetic) D By date/time (oldest first)
> G Group directories first - Prefix to reverse order
> /P Pauses after each screenful of information.
> /Q Display the owner of the file.
> /S Displays files in specified directory and all subdirectories.
> /T Controls which time field displayed or used for sorting
> timefield C Creation
> A Last Access
> W Last Written
> /W Uses wide list format.
> /X This displays the short names generated for non-8dot3 file
> names. The format is that of /N with the short name inserted
> before the long name. If no short name is present, blanks are
> displayed in its place.
> /4 Displays four-digit years
>
> Switches may be preset in the DIRCMD environment variable. Override
> preset switches by prefixing any switch with - (hyphen)--for example, /-W.
>
> etc etc
>
> Besides, there's always [command] /?...
>
> C:\>help ping
> This command is not supported by the help utility. Try "ping /?".
>
> C:\>ping /?
>
> Usage: ping [-t] [-a] [-n count] [-l size] [-f] [-i TTL] [-v TOS]
> [-r count] [-s count] [[-j host-list] | [-k host-list]]
> [-w timeout] destination-list
>
> Options:
> -t Ping the specified host until stopped.
> To see statistics and continue - type Control-Break;
> To stop - type Control-C.
> -a Resolve addresses to hostnames.
> -n count Number of echo requests to send.
> -l size Send buffer size.
> -f Set Don't Fragment flag in packet.
> -i TTL Time To Live.
> -v TOS Type Of Service.
> -r count Record route for count hops.
> -s count Timestamp for count hops.
> -j host-list Loose source route along host-list.
> -k host-list Strict source route along host-list.
> -w timeout Timeout in milliseconds to wait for each reply.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Sam
>
> _o/
> >\
Funny thing. On my IBM windows 95 system a new window pops up titled
C:\Windows\help full of icons accompanied by names like CMDLG95.cnt and
so forth (150 objects 13.5 MB).
--
Russ Lyttle, PE
<http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
Not Powered by ActiveX
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: RedHat BugList Summary
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 03:43:45 GMT
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 14:01:22 GMT, Chad Myers
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Marc Richter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Hiding and pretending that bugs and exploits don't exist don't make
>> them magically go away.
>>
>> It seems that opponents of Open Source laugh at the number of reported
>> bugs and exploits, without realizing that it's only by admitting flaws
>> and fixing them that software gets better.
And then as usual Chad proceeds to post a response that ignores the
substance of the man's argument. I think Chad is one of those people
who like to hear themselves talk.
>The only people being naive here are the penguinistas. We have heard
>the continual mantra that OSS is superior, produces less bugs, if ANY
>bugs at all, because of all these "reviewers" that constantly review
>EVERY SINGLE line of code ALL THE TIME.
I think the only one making the claim that OSS doesn't produce any bugs
is you, in posts like this one.
The actual claim the "pengunistas" make is that OSS bugs get found and
fixed sooner than closed source bugs.
Another claim is that the bug-fixing process takes place right out
there in public on mailing lists, newsgroups, and web pages. You can
see the bug reports and the fixes in nearly real-time, if you are so
inclined. You can participate, if you are so inclined. You can send
in patches, if you are so inclined (I was so inclined this week when I
found some problems with a program I use).
Release early and release often results in making public things that
are hidden from your view by commercial vendors. If you want to talk
yourself into the idea that commercial programmers don't make mistakes
as often as OSS programmers because you can't see their process, then
feel free. Just don't expect the rest of us to buy it.
>However, we know this to be false and the numbers speak for themselves.
No, the numbers don't speak for themselves, since you are not comparing
like with like when you compare OSS bug reports to MS bug reports.
> - OSS is superior
> * Then why are there more bugs in Linux than any other of the
> closed source projects combined?
Well, first, I don't think you have any evidence to support _that_
assertion. You *might* be able to support that there are more bug
reports against Red Hat than against W2K, but even that is a relatively
meaningless point for a number of reasons.
First, Chad, the Linux buglist is the real buglist, not the one the
marketing department was forced to own up to because the bug causes
obvious failures in the field or is being actively exploited by
crackers. It includes bugs that would likely go unreported (to the
public) in a closed source project.
Second, the lists of "Linux bugs" you are so fond of includes bugs from
large numbers of other projects that would be separate add-on items for
W2K or NT. To make the numbers comparable you should add the bugs for
those add-ons to the base W2K/NT bug-number.
> - OSS yields less bugs
> * This is obviously false
I don't think that you have shown this. You have instead completely
mis-interpreted the data to confuse yourself into thinking you have
shown it. Which is pretty much your normal practice.
> - All Linux code is reviewed over and over again to assure quality
> * This has to be false. It appears only certain, high profile,
> segments are reviewed.
Of course high profile segments get reviewed more. But lots of stuff
seems to get reviewed. I see postings all the time on BugTraq about "I
was looking over the source to the foo program and found these cases of
questionable code"? A lot of the "exploits" that you crow about were
found this way. The fact that they were found is good, not bad, as
they are now fixed and not exploitable in the future.
If someone reviews the code and finds a bug, then you count that
against OSS. If someone doesn't, and the bug finds its way into the
final version (whatever that means), then that too counts against OSS.
The only ways to "win" in your eyes are to not write bugs (impossible)
or to not report them all to the public (what commercial vendors do).
So it would appear that you prefer that your software vendors deceive
you.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
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ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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