Linux-Advocacy Digest #644, Volume #30 Mon, 4 Dec 00 09:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: WINDOZE is awful (Måns Rullgård)
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Linux is awful ("Adam Short")
Re: Linux is awful (Charlie Ebert)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Joe Malloy")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux is awful ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 07:15:02 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Tom Wilson writes:
>
> >>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> I wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>
> >>>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>
> >>>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>
> >>>>>>> You'd be surprised....
> >>>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>
> >>>>>> The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Proof: put a primative tribesman in a room with electric appliances
> >>>>>> and tell him to start the things into operation.
>
> >>>>> I'm in agreement.
>
> >>>> You shouldn't be. His example doesn't represent proof for a power
> >>>> switch not being intuitive.
>
> >>> I'm agreeing that my choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>
> >> But Aaron didn't say that your choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>
> > He did that very thing by intimating the situation to be a question of
> > intuitiveness as opposed to stupidity.
>
> He didn't even intimate that situation. He simply repeated his claim
> that the power switch is not intuitive, and then tried to offer some
> proof for that claim.
>
> >>> The hypothesis, strange as it is, points it out. It's a matter of
> >>> experience and environment, not intellect.
>
> >> "Experience" is the word I used for it. Someone else chose "familiarity".
>
> >>> I used the word idiot because I had been trouble-shooting over
> >>> the phone to complete morons that evening and had a dim view of
> >>> humanity as a result.
>
> >> Someone who couldn't find the "any" key on the keyboard?
>
> > Worse. This was an professional moron.
> >
> > An old Novell customer who consistantly forgets his Administrator password.
> > He's STILL running Novell 3.12 which is good, in a way, because you can hack
> > into console debug mode and trick it into believing all system passwords
> > have time-expired. That way he can log on as Administrator and get prompted
> > for a new one.
> >
> > Ever tried to talk someone, who constantly interrupts and thinks he knows
> > everything, through hacking Novell from the debug console?
>
> No; I don't know anyone who hacks through Novell debug consoles.
>
> > I would have done it myself, but, he lives 600 miles away.
>
> Behind a firewall?
>
> >>>>> The language I used, in hindsight, was wrong.
>
> >>>> That doesn't justify your agreement.
>
> >>> How do you figure? I was agreeing that my wording was off track and
> >>> Aaron's post had pointed that out.
>
> >> Aaron's post wasn't pointing to your wording. He was simply repeating
> >> his claim that the power switch was not intuitive.
>
> > He was pointing to my wording's intent - That it was a question of
> > intellegence.
>
> Where did he do that?
>
> AK] The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
>
> >>>>> Read: Never underestimate the ignorance factor.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I used "idiot" because i'ts been one of those nights...
>
> >>>> Go to the store. Buy a lamp. Take it home. Do you consult a manual
> >>>> to find out what to do with the cord? I hope not. Yet the
> >>>> hypothesized "primative tribesman" could have no idea what the cord
> >>>> is for. Does that prove that the power cord is not intuitive?
>
> >>> Oh for God's sake!
>
> >> Which presupposes the existence of God.
>
> > Yep, you're anal....
>
> An illogical conclusion.
>
> >>> His hypothesis was extreme, yes. However, it makes a valid point
> >>> regarding experience.
>
> >> On the contrary, it ignores the essential element of intuitive design,
> >> which involves experience with similar items. If someone states something
> >> about trees, you don't go to a desert and then proclaim the statement
> >> about trees to be wrong.
>
> > You watched a lot of Kung Fu as a kid, didn't you?
>
> No.
>
> > You sound like a fortune cookie.
>
> On what basis do you make that ridiculous claim?
>
> >>> You're bordering on anal retention, i'm afraid.
>
> >> How ironic.
Tholen..you really need to see a doctor.
Your anus needs is currently depositing waste material
where your brain should be.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 07:18:38 -0500
Ketil Z Malde wrote:
>
> "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >>> Are you psychic or psychotic?
>
> >> You don't have to be either, just a bit less than dim-witted. If you
> >> use e.g. SGML for your data format, it isn't very hard to be forward
> >> compatible.
>
> > But that isn't the case, and IIRC nobody is doing that.
>
> Yes, a lot of people use closed and proprietary data formats, since
> they then get an interface they're used to. Not everybody,though.
>
> It's not a technical problem, though, the lack of forward
> compatibility is either due to
>
> a) incompetence and short-sightedness
> b) wishing to lock in users and force software upgrades
> c) malice
>
> In most cases, I'd be inclined to suggest a). Feel free to make up
> your own mind.
In the case of microsoft, (a) is inexcusable, which leaves
only (b) and/or (c).;
>
> -kzm
> --
> If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Måns Rullgård)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: WINDOZE is awful
Date: 4 Dec 2000 12:07:59 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Adam Majer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> No no. All you have to do is make sure that linux is loaded from a
> partition not from MBR on a drive. Windows will overwrite that by def.
> (Windows is awful :( Then you need to make the partition with linux
> bootable again and turn off the boong of the Windows partition.
>
> Then if you want 95 and 2000 and linux and dos on the same system (what
> I have :), win2k will again overwirte MBR of the A disk without asking
> you.. And dos will not start at all unless it is on first partition of the
> first disk.... You can't put lilo to MBR or otherwise you'll loose all of
> the boot information for Windoze when you install lilo again.
>
> I think lilo should be able to change the partiton type of partitions and
> load the boot sector for different OSs. Is that configurable in any way? So
> that the DOS disk will become a non-readable partition when running 2k?
> (for example). Is there any way of loading MBR from a file instead of
>
> /dev/hda
>
> which kind of sucks since Windows is awful when it comes to multi-boot OS.
>
> - Adam
>
> PS. Linux is the light at the end of the tunnel and it is not the tunnel
> that is on fire (that would be Windows! :)
>
LILO can be configured to change partition types on bootup. Check
man lilo.conf
You might have to recompile LILO to get this functionality.
--
Måns Rullgård
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 12:33:34 GMT
On Mon, 04 Dec 2000 08:32:39 GMT, Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> So your never going to get an answer out of anybody as you
>> are left with NO PROOF. It's CLOSED SOURCE.
>
>If you can isolate the problem yourself by writing small sample programs
>that demonstrate the problem, then there's your proof.
>
>--
>---
>Pete
>
ahhhg... Well, I suppose we are just idiots in your world
Pete.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: "Adam Short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 12:45:53 GMT
> I wonder why they are so lazy that they can't put a simple warning box.
Do Microsoft warn you that installing Windows will overwrite the MBR, making
Windows the only bootable OS? Do they hell! Plus the Windows setup routine
doesn't even ask about partitions. Unless you've used fdisk yourself
beforehand to sort out the partitioning, Windows will just sprawl into all
available space. No warnings about that one either. Just a little message
that helpfully tells you that the hard drive is being formatted for your
pleasure and delectation.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 12:53:24 GMT
On Mon, 04 Dec 2000 12:45:53 GMT,
Adam Short <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I wonder why they are so lazy that they can't put a simple warning box.
>
>Do Microsoft warn you that installing Windows will overwrite the MBR, making
>Windows the only bootable OS? Do they hell! Plus the Windows setup routine
>doesn't even ask about partitions. Unless you've used fdisk yourself
>beforehand to sort out the partitioning, Windows will just sprawl into all
>available space. No warnings about that one either. Just a little message
>that helpfully tells you that the hard drive is being formatted for your
>pleasure and delectation.
>
>
You forgot to mention that once it is installed, it's an unexplainable
blue screening pile of bullcrap. No matter what kind of software
you put on it, whether it was made in house or not, it's one time
consuming, messy blue screening pile of worthless electron wastin
shit!
uuummmm humm. badd
uuummmm hmmm badd
That what's microsoft is
UUUUMMMM HMMMM BADDDDDD!
Charlie
------------------------------
From: "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 13:04:31 GMT
Tholen tholes:
> >> 12 years of posting to USENET, and [Tholen is] STILL the
biggest
> >> moron I've ever come across.
>
> > Yet another quote for the Tholen archive,
>
> Totally devoid of context, as usual.
Yeah, just like you, Tholen. Why, it's as if you don't realize that
the quotes stacked up against you and your weak sense of "arguing"
are real! You're unintentionally funny, Tholen, good job, Jeff!
> > and yet more evidence that Tholen is widely regarded as a fool
among
> > usenet readers
>
> Yet more evidence that Glatt doesn't know what "widely regarded"
means.
I think he knows precisely what it means and that makes his
statement correct, Tholen. It's you who don't know.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 12:51:49 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>>>> Tom Wilson writes:
>>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>>>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>>>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>>>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>>>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>>>>>>> You'd be surprised....
>>>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>>>>>> We're talking about intuition, not incompetence.
>>>>> Put an electric appliance in front of somebody who has never
>>>>> used an electric appliance before, and you'll learn that there
>>>>> is absolutely NOTHING intuitive about on/off switches.
>>>> Once again, you're hypothesizing a situation that precludes
>>>> intuition.
>> Note: no response.
Note: still no response.
>>>>> They are merely FAMILIAR, not intuitive.
>>>> How is an electric appliance familiar to someone who has never
>>>> used an electic appliance before?
>>> PRECISELY,
>> Precisely why your analogy fails. You're going outside the relevant
>> group, namely those who use electrical appliances. Just because some
>> hypothetical "primitive tribesman" won't find a power switch intuitive
>> doesn't mean that nobody can find a power switch to be intuitive.
>> Familiarity does not have to be universal before something can be
>> intuitive to someone.
Note: no response.
>>> shit-head
>> You must really be hurting for a logical argument.
> Just commenting on your inability to comprehend a logical argument.
What alleged inability? You're the one who hasn't comprehended my
logical argument, and you've not offered any counterargument, just
immature invective.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:06:05 +0200
"Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >> Microsoft SQL server doesn't seem so hot compared to IBM DB2, which
> >> achieves 10% lower score on two thirds of the CPU power.
>
> > Why didn't IBM put same/higher machines to the test?
>
> You'll have to ask them, of course, but my guess is that they don't
> want to keep wasting millions of dollars on what essentially is a
> mindless pissing contest with no link to reality.
IBM spent millions of dollars and several years to build a computer whose
only function is to play Chess.
Advertisement is very powerful.
And "we are the #X place on the TPC records" has a great deal of influence
when buying databases.
> And of course, then Compaq would put together an even larger
> cluster...
Retaliation is *good* for the customer.
> And anyway, IBM holds a record on unclustered benchmarks that Compaq
> can't hold a candle to. Their best attempt is three quarters of IBM's
> score, and that is running Oracle - just like IBM is.
What computers were they using? Big Iron? Cause IBM can probably make
computer of the parts that they've thrown to the garbage that would best the
best Compaq can build even in their dreams.
I want to see results on comparable hardware, anyone know about those?
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 15:09:24 +0200
"Adam Short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:5mMW5.42$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > I wonder why they are so lazy that they can't put a simple warning box.
>
> Do Microsoft warn you that installing Windows will overwrite the MBR,
making
> Windows the only bootable OS? Do they hell! Plus the Windows setup routine
> doesn't even ask about partitions. Unless you've used fdisk yourself
> beforehand to sort out the partitioning, Windows will just sprawl into all
> available space. No warnings about that one either. Just a little message
> that helpfully tells you that the hard drive is being formatted for your
> pleasure and delectation.
No windows installation will repartition/format your HD.
The closest thing to this is NT converting the FS you install it on to NTFS
if you ask it too, and give you the option to convert or format to NTFS. And
you are *asked* about it.
Overwriting the MBR is indeed bad, but it cause no loss of data and is
largely an annoiance.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 08:27:41 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>>>> Tom Wilson writes:
>
> >>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>
> >>>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>
> >>>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>
> >>>>>>> You'd be surprised....
> >>>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>
> >>>>>> We're talking about intuition, not incompetence.
>
> >>>>> Put an electric appliance in front of somebody who has never
> >>>>> used an electric appliance before, and you'll learn that there
> >>>>> is absolutely NOTHING intuitive about on/off switches.
>
> >>>> Once again, you're hypothesizing a situation that precludes
> >>>> intuition.
>
> >> Note: no response.
>
> Note: still no response.
>
> >>>>> They are merely FAMILIAR, not intuitive.
>
> >>>> How is an electric appliance familiar to someone who has never
> >>>> used an electic appliance before?
>
> >>> PRECISELY,
>
> >> Precisely why your analogy fails. You're going outside the relevant
> >> group, namely those who use electrical appliances. Just because some
> >> hypothetical "primitive tribesman" won't find a power switch intuitive
> >> doesn't mean that nobody can find a power switch to be intuitive.
> >> Familiarity does not have to be universal before something can be
> >> intuitive to someone.
>
> Note: no response.
>
I've explained it 5 times already, you shit-head.
> >>> shit-head
>
> >> You must really be hurting for a logical argument.
>
> > Just commenting on your inability to comprehend a logical argument.
>
> What alleged inability? You're the one who hasn't comprehended my
> logical argument, and you've not offered any counterargument, just
> immature invective.
PLease get a doctor to reroute your rectum away from your cranium.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 13:38:39 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>> Why didn't IBM put same/higher machines to the test?
>> You'll have to ask them, of course, but my guess is that [...]
> IBM spent millions of dollars and several years to build a computer
> whose only function is to play Chess.
Plaing chess is research which could possibly bring insights into
other problems - I don't see how that applies to stacking PCs.
Are you claiming, or even insinuating, that IBM couldn't beat the
current TPC-C clustered scores if they wished to? Compaq shows it
nicely, they get almost linear scaling from 64 CPU's worth of servers,
through 96 and up to 192.
> And "we are the #X place on the TPC records" has a great deal of
> influence when buying databases.
I doubt that. It's an incredibly synthetic benchmark, even as
benchmarks go, and bears no relation to any real world database
configuration.
>> And of course, then Compaq would put together an even larger
>> cluster...
> Retaliation is *good* for the customer.
Only because the customer could turn to Dell in order to not pay for
excessive benchmarking that are completely meaningless anyway.
> What computers were they using? Big Iron?
24-CPU box running AIX with Oracle.
> I want to see results on comparable hardware, anyone know about
> those?
Why don't you just go to www.tpc.org and browse around?
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 13:29:51 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>> Tom Wilson writes:
>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tom Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>>>>>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>>>>>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>>>>>>>>> You'd be surprised....
>>>>>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>>>>>>>> The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Proof: put a primative tribesman in a room with electric appliances
>>>>>>>> and tell him to start the things into operation.
>>>>>>> I'm in agreement.
>>>>>> You shouldn't be. His example doesn't represent proof for a power
>>>>>> switch not being intuitive.
>>>>> I'm agreeing that my choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>>>> But Aaron didn't say that your choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>>> He did that very thing by intimating the situation to be a question of
>>> intuitiveness as opposed to stupidity.
>> He didn't even intimate that situation. He simply repeated his claim
>> that the power switch is not intuitive, and then tried to offer some
>> proof for that claim.
>>>>> The hypothesis, strange as it is, points it out. It's a matter of
>>>>> experience and environment, not intellect.
>>>> "Experience" is the word I used for it. Someone else chose "familiarity".
>>>>> I used the word idiot because I had been trouble-shooting over
>>>>> the phone to complete morons that evening and had a dim view of
>>>>> humanity as a result.
>>>> Someone who couldn't find the "any" key on the keyboard?
>>> Worse. This was an professional moron.
>>>
>>> An old Novell customer who consistantly forgets his Administrator password.
>>> He's STILL running Novell 3.12 which is good, in a way, because you can hack
>>> into console debug mode and trick it into believing all system passwords
>>> have time-expired. That way he can log on as Administrator and get prompted
>>> for a new one.
>>>
>>> Ever tried to talk someone, who constantly interrupts and thinks he knows
>>> everything, through hacking Novell from the debug console?
>> No; I don't know anyone who hacks through Novell debug consoles.
>>> I would have done it myself, but, he lives 600 miles away.
>> Behind a firewall?
>>>>>>> The language I used, in hindsight, was wrong.
>>>>>> That doesn't justify your agreement.
>>>>> How do you figure? I was agreeing that my wording was off track and
>>>>> Aaron's post had pointed that out.
>>>> Aaron's post wasn't pointing to your wording. He was simply repeating
>>>> his claim that the power switch was not intuitive.
>>> He was pointing to my wording's intent - That it was a question of
>>> intellegence.
>> Where did he do that?
>>
>> AK] The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
>>>>>>> Read: Never underestimate the ignorance factor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I used "idiot" because i'ts been one of those nights...
>>>>>> Go to the store. Buy a lamp. Take it home. Do you consult a manual
>>>>>> to find out what to do with the cord? I hope not. Yet the
>>>>>> hypothesized "primative tribesman" could have no idea what the cord
>>>>>> is for. Does that prove that the power cord is not intuitive?
>>>>> Oh for God's sake!
>>>> Which presupposes the existence of God.
>>> Yep, you're anal....
>> An illogical conclusion.
>>>>> His hypothesis was extreme, yes. However, it makes a valid point
>>>>> regarding experience.
>>>> On the contrary, it ignores the essential element of intuitive design,
>>>> which involves experience with similar items. If someone states something
>>>> about trees, you don't go to a desert and then proclaim the statement
>>>> about trees to be wrong.
>>> You watched a lot of Kung Fu as a kid, didn't you?
>> No.
>>> You sound like a fortune cookie.
>> On what basis do you make that ridiculous claim?
>>>>> You're bordering on anal retention, i'm afraid.
>>>> How ironic.
> Tholen..you really need to see a doctor.
On what basis do you make that claim?
> Your anus needs is currently depositing waste material
> where your brain should be.
Even more invective. But of course: where's the logical argument?
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