Linux-Advocacy Digest #644, Volume #32 Sun, 4 Mar 01 21:13:08 EST
Contents:
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (pip)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("Edward Rosten")
Re: NT vs *nix performance ("JS PL")
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Why can't Apple do it? (Ziya Oz)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("ono")
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (Donn Miller)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (pip)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (pip)
Re: Windoze Domination/Damnation ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (Donn Miller)
Re: Why Linux Is Giving Microsoft a Migraine ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! ("Edward Rosten")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 01:17:27 +0000
Edward Rosten wrote:
> > Hmmmmmmmm. I think not. Unless you have a postscript printer. Too much
> > buggering around from defaults.
>
> Not really. I have an HP500 deskjet. Using the RH printtool it went
> something like this:
>
> click on new printer, click setup, select HP500, click OK.
>
> That was it.
ok - point taken. However my Oki 10ex was not as easy.
> I have since set up several instances to do other useful stuff, such as a
> low res queue, and a fast text queue.
>
> > How do you get that paper out message? Select different print trays?
> > <skating on thin ice here as I could be wrong>
>
> Well, I've always had my printer next to my computer (and it doesn't have
> several trays), so I can't comment. The network printer in my college
> doesn't give a paper out error on the screen.
This is why other GnomePrint is such a good foundation IMHO.
> It never seemed to work very well. One instance kept swallowing the others
> settings. I never tried again. Also, there is a lot less flexibility.
> Under Linux, I have more optins such as 2pages per page
> (which I use a suprising amount).
One thing that is for sure is that once you get a setup working is _is_
far more flexible under Linux - although it would be nice to have some
more consistent GUI tools for this.
> >> The printing drivers are not accesible from the commandline `print'
> >> command
> >
> > Are they not? You'd better check that again.
>
> No, they are not[*]. First capture a port and then print to that port. The
> print command just dumps raw data to the captured port. There is no way of
> sending that data throgh a print driver (well, none that I've found).
Ok, OK. It will print text and nothing more. Correct!
> UNIX lets you use both from either place, which is a good thing.
Yes
> >> It doesn't seem to have any print filtering machanism
> >
> > It does not need one.
>
> Technically, no, but a filtering mechanism is very, very useful. The
> filtering mechanism provides a consistent mechanism avaliable from the CLI
> and the GUI. The windows mechanism is very inconsistent.
But nobody in windows uses the CLI for that - so in a sense it just does
not matter. But I see your point.
> > Well you done nothing to convince me that piping is superior to proper
> > application components or that the printing system is any good either.
>
> I was talking about printing, not component models. As a final point,
> windows doesn't let you print a device independent[*] printout to a file.
> You have to print the device dependent version.
This is true.
>The print mechanism is in
> a different place in UNIX. Everything uses PS, so if you print to a file,
> that printout will work on any printer you have set up.
As long and you can find a good driver under gs
> If this doesn't convince you, then I can only suggest that you try some
> abusive printing. I have some quite odd printing requirements and I have
> found that the flexibility of the UNIX print system makes it much easier
> for me. I find myself fighting the Windows one.
Yes I can see what you mean - but my argument is more along the lines
of:
1) make is easier to set up
2) make it consistent
3) make it easy to program with
4) make it so that _all_ the functions of the printer are accessible
> > They both have their place. In the wastepaper basket of history.
> > (OK simple piping _is_ very useful - but I think you get what I mean!) I
> > am just thankful that some parts of the Linux community see this and are
> > doing something about it! Thank goodness!
>
> I don't believe piping should disappear. It is very good for simple tasks.
> There is no point in burdening down simple tasks with a much more complex
> structure. Most of the tasks I do are fairly simple and piping is fine.
Quite so. I use piping very much. But it is not what I want in terms of
programming objects that I can reuse in my programs.
> I suppose I would use a component system for mor complex ones, but at the
> moment, pipes work fine.
p.s. why do us computer types always stay up too late? I think I may be
nocturnal.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 01:19:56 +0000
>> Which printing subsystem, we have the BSD, and Cups, which one do you
>> mean?
>
> Good point. Which indeed. That _is_ indeed the problem.
Not really. Diversity is not a bad thing, especially since once set up,
they are very similar to use.
>> Does the term 'lack behind' accurately describe a GUI thats natively
>> able to do *remote gui*, whereas Windows, without 3rd party
>> apps,*cannot* do this ?
>
> Cheap shot. You should know that I am talking about HCI.
HCL?
>> >Of course windows is restricting in MANY ways - but this gibberish
>> >above just goes to show how some Linux users are absolutely blind to
>> >the good points in the Windows OS.
>> Name just ONE?
>
> OLE, COM (DCOM), ActiveX, DirectX, Driver support, Software support, UI
> consistency.
I haven't missed OLE since I stopped using windows. Seriously. I haven't
found simple references to embedded objects any harder to work with.
Don't know anythning about COM.
DirectX. I don't know about the rest of DX, but have you ever tried using
D3D? Open GL is a rather nicer interface, from an API point of view.
Driver support. LOL you're not referring to the flagship product Win2K
are you? it has a HCL.
The UI is not consistent. Mabey you are referring to the GUI? The CLI and
GUI don't mesh very well. Besides, there are plenty of inconsistencies in
the GUI. I remember having a long argument about a year ago about this
(systray, for example).
Mabey you are refering to consistency between apps? I have never had a
problem with mixed GUIs. When I was learning about computers, I would
regularly switch between Win3.0, DOS, AMOS and that odd RM mode that the
RM Nimbus had, with an ocasional smattering of Amiga and Archimedese in
between. So mixed UIs don't really bother me.
>> Does a virii infested pc 'work' ?
>
> You are being stupid.
It is a good point. These virii are no end of hassle.
>> Does continual lockups, and re boots 'work' ?
>
> You are avoiding the _real_ issues.
No, it is a valid point. I really don't miss reboots.
>> Your post contained lots of feel good phrases on behalf of Windows, but
>> little substance.
>
> Well read this and comment. I can see now what your typical attitude is.
> The red mist is strong in this one. If you read my comments in context
> then you would understand that I am a user of both Linux and Windows, so
> I say these comments with the point being to show that all is not evil
> that M$ has done. Open your mind to ideas that are good and everything
> will improve. Keep your red mist and be stuck in the past.
I don't think you have done a very good job of highlighting Windows' good
points.
-Ed
--
| Edward
Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "JS PL" <js@plcom>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 20:20:22 -0500
"Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> JS PL wrote:
> >
> > "Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > JS PL wrote:
> > > >
> >
> > > > Two clicks from one of the most visited pages on earth is monopoly
> > > > prevention:
> > > >
> > http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Software/Operating_Systems/
> > > > and always has been.
> > >
> > > Nice link, what does it have to do with the subject? The word monopoly
> > > doesn't appear in that page.
> >
> > It can't because all the choices of operating systems on that page would
> > drown it out.
> > And as far as the subject goes, it has everything to do with the
subject.
> > Victims of a monopoly don't have the kind of choices that have always
been
> > available to pc users.
>
> If all that stuff is available, for what reason it's very difficult, and
> up to one year ago it was absolutely impossible to buy a PC without an
> MS OS pre-installed? Think hard.
I haven't bought a pc with an OS pre-installed in several years. So it has
been FAR from your "absolutely impossible" claim. It's not even difficult to
find a PC without an OS installed. Wasn't difficult in 1997 either....lets
see... here it is... January 1997 Computer Shopper magazine, bought at
WallMart. I'm looking at about 900 pages of ads to choose from. The index of
advertisers has about ten pages, four lines per page, top to bottom of just
computer component vendors. Just because people are too ignorant to know the
many choices doesn't make Microsoft the only choice. (see link above for the
many choices)
> > Nothing to do with the subject either, but It has nicer colors.
> >
> > tee hee...It has a little to do with the subject, they're using IIs5 on
> > Win2K.
>
> Yes, I know. They don't give a damn about their uptime. Internet is a
> side issue for a car-maker. ISP's, which lose money when the site isn't
> available, make more sensible choices.
Call up Fiat and ask then if they give a damn about uptime of their website.
I'm sure their opinion differs from what you claim their opinion is.
> If you want to know which car is the best price/performance compromise,
> you don't look at which brand of Limousines Hotel Plaza is using, you
> look at which brand a Limousine rental service is purchasing.
> If it's not vital for their business, they can make the wrong choice,
> and nobody will notice. If it's the core of their business, either they
> make the right choice, or they're broke in a blink.
I always thought that if you were looking to buy a Limousine and had to ask
the price you couldn't afford it anyway. Somehow I just don't see Donald
Trump staking out the rental yard trying to determine a good
"price/performance compromise' in his Limousine choices.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 01:25:15 +0000
>> So is that why Win2K now has a telnet server and improved command line
>> tools?
>
> Does the Professional version have this? Will the consumer version of
> Whistler have this? No?
It seems to me that you are pointing out how a lack of features is a good
thing.
>> >> When I run Windows, I get this closed-in, claustrophobic feeling.
>> >
>> > When I run Linux, I get the closed-in, claustrophobic feeling...
>>
>> I side with Donn on this one. Click to focus is just plain ugly.
>
> When I run Linux, I get this closed-in, claustrophobic feeling... how
> does that relate to "click to focus"?
I find click to focus really cramps my style. I have to keep everything
small (hence the claustrophobic feeling:) so that when I type in one
window, I can see wha is in the others.
>> > With Linux I can feel the restraints of too many toolkits and the
>> > ugliness of multiple window managers all straining to get their
>> > fingers on me.
>>
>> With Windows, your stuck with the extreme ugliness of one
>> windowmanager.
>
> Except you can actually replace them - there are products to do that out
> there.
It depende. If it is your PC then yes (although there isn't much choice
andnone of them are as good as FVWM2). If it is a `public' workstation,
then no. The UNIX workstations avaliable to me have 3 different choices.
The windows ones have one choice (is one choice an oxymoron?)
>> > On Windows, I couldn't care less what is running.
>>
>> Could explain the crashing...
>
> Nah, just a feature of Windows.
Nuff said
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Why can't Apple do it?
From: Ziya Oz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 01:29:58 GMT
Mike Flournoy wrote:
> People want to own their stuff whenever it makes sense.
And many times it doesn't.
> I might rent an application as a form of shareware but I doubt it - only if it
> were essential and I had to choose from several.
Again, on the Web millions of people actually run (sometimes) complex app
all disguised as interactive websites, many times a day. Often it's free to
the end user, supported by advertising, corporate sponsorship, etc.,
sometimes there's a fee. But the point is, this revolution has *already*
started to seep into the general computing culture and it'll be impossible
to undo. Some apps are better handled via local computing, many can be
remotely done. It's important not to lump all apps together and be able to
see the advantages offered by each.
****
Ziya
------------------------------
From: "ono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 02:18:02 +0100
> There are NO good points that are inherent to Windows. This is provable.
Every
> API Windows implements, has a better designed analogy in the UNIX world.
More
mmc, wmi, the ie-dom, ado, wdm, dx7 (and some more)
If you havn't a clue about those technologies, go to msdn.microsoft.com and
download the sdk's.
btw: they are all for free
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 01:34:28 +0000
>> >> But most of all, I don't have to hit control+alt+delete, and try to
>> >> guess which instance of a program is hanging. And furthermore, when
>> >> I kill something, it dies right then and there.
>> >
>> > Even on Linux, I bet you can get a process that won't die.
>>
>> I've never had one. I can even kill this process:
>>
>> main{ while(!fork())
>> }
>>
>> since it has a nice killall program.
>
> Leave it running long enough, without limits, then try to get the system
> to respond. Good luck!
Erm, it is not a fork bomb. It's a self hiding process. Try and find its
PID.
Besides if you badly configure a system, you can bring it down. I don't
get the point you are trying to make. The point is that with a well
configured system, you can't bring it down. Hell to come down at the
speed of light, I could make /dev/kmem writable to by everyone.
>> > UNIX is an example of a system that was designed too long ago, and
>> > got many things wrong. Every piece is a hotpotch affair, all pulling
>> > in different directions.
>>
>> Could you back this with more than 1 example. The cli tools + piping is
>> one axample of a very elegant design o parts pulling in the same
>> direction.
>
> Oh, I don't have a problem with pipes and tees. I just have a problem
> with the whole cryptic command line.
They problem is that you think it is cryptic. Take the time to learn it
and you'll find it is really very efficient.
>> > Windows 9x is a botched design, a quick hack to keep the punters
>> > happy. Windows NT is where we should be, and maybe with Whistler, if
>> > they don't
>> > impose this silly key system on us.
>>
>> WinNT is no way as good as UNIX. That's why Micros~1 is trying to make
>> it in to a UNIX.
>
> Except they're not, they're trying to kill off UNIX. They've succeeded
> so far on the desktop.
They are.
NT3 Better Unix than Unix (or so they said)
NT4 improved command line, including kill.exe
Win2K remote GUI, symlings, telnet server.
As time goes by, it becomes more like UNIX.
Besides, UNIX never was on the desktop. Now it is. They haven't succeded
in killing off anything, and now with Linux+GNU+GPL, they never will.
>> > In Windows there is so much to choose from,
>
>> Like what?
>
> Applications.
There are plenty of apps to choose from in Linux. In fact there are more
than enough to meet my current needs.
>> > so much innovation and fresh
>>
>> Oh yeah. I can't live without the drop-shadow cursor and fading menus.
>
> Who gets the devices and drivers designed first, huh, Linux or Windows?
So why does Win2K have an HCL, then?
Why is all my hardware fully supported under Linux? Why did it all work
first time? Well? And why the hell did windows want drivers for my
moniter? its just a moniter and it workes perfectly under either OS
without special drivers.
> Which platform has many games written for it, Linux or Windows?
I stopped spending money on the upgrade cycle, so games are a non issue
for me.
Besides, how in hells name are the above 2 things either innovative or
fresh (the context of the comment).
>> > air; in Linux everything is old and crumbling and reeks of
>> > yesterday.
>>
>> What fresh air. Are GNOME and KDE older than windows?
>
> They're young and they show it.
Yep they show it all right. Fresh, clean design. Skinnable, all the
modern features, working, now.
>> > Windows gets better every release and has long run away from the
>> > plodding lumbering juggernaut that is UNIX.
>>
>> Yep rnu in the oppersite direction and jumped down a hole.
>
> It's a very nice hole in here. Smells a bit tho'. The stench of virii,
> spam and monopolies. Oh well, that's success for you!
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:37:15 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
pip wrote:
> Show me DirectX.
Perhaps XFree86's DGA extension is an analog here.
http://ftp2.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/XFree86/4.0.2/doc/README.DGA
Interestingly enough, Wine uses this DGA mode (optionally, though) to
run Win 9x DirectX aps.
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------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 01:36:42 +0000
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> >> Which printing subsystem, we have the BSD, and Cups, which one do you
> >> mean?
> >
> > Good point. Which indeed. That _is_ indeed the problem.
>
> Not really. Diversity is not a bad thing, especially since once set up,
> they are very similar to use.
Maybe. I would prefer a single standard on this front. To me this is not
the same as the battle of the desktops - it is more a system level
inconsistency.
>
> >> Does the term 'lack behind' accurately describe a GUI thats natively
> >> able to do *remote gui*, whereas Windows, without 3rd party
> >> apps,*cannot* do this ?
> >
> > Cheap shot. You should know that I am talking about HCI.
>
> HCL?
HCI - sorry - Human Computer Interaction
> DirectX. I don't know about the rest of DX, but have you ever tried using
> D3D? Open GL is a rather nicer interface, from an API point of view.
We must agree to differ. I have not much experience with trying OpenGL
because I just didn't like it.
> Driver support. LOL you're not referring to the flagship product Win2K
> are you? it has a HCL.
>
> The UI is not consistent. Mabey you are referring to the GUI?
No, I meant User Interface all right. I don't regard the CLI under
windows as a viable interface for most "joe average" users.
>The CLI and
> GUI don't mesh very well.
True.
>Besides, there are plenty of inconsistencies in
> the GUI. I remember having a long argument about a year ago about this
> (systray, for example).
There are indeed. I often find them out when teaching people who are
_really_ new to computers hoe to use it. It is still in many respects
more consistent than the current Linux alternatives. But having said
that, there is so much effort at the moment to bridge this gap that I
may already be wrong.
> Mabey you are refering to consistency between apps? I have never had a
> problem with mixed GUIs.
Not really - mixed GUI's are not too good for newbies, but I quite like
the differences.
>When I was learning about computers, I would
> regularly switch between Win3.0, DOS, AMOS
ahhh Amos. I used to use Amos Professional. I did my first "large"
program using it and a few small games. Those were the days. And I think
that the interface was in many ways as good as any of today's.
>and that odd RM mode that the
> RM Nimbus had, with an ocasional smattering of Amiga and Archimedese in
> between. So mixed UIs don't really bother me.
Ahhhh the Amiga. My first ex-computer (the BBC didn't count as I didn't
own it)
> >> Does a virii infested pc 'work' ?
> >
> > You are being stupid.
>
> It is a good point. These virii are no end of hassle.
Yes - but not in the context of this conversation - we are straying OT
here.
> >> Does continual lockups, and re boots 'work' ?
> >
> > You are avoiding the _real_ issues.
>
> No, it is a valid point. I really don't miss reboots.
Well this is true:
about 5 mins ago my computer spontaneously rebooted. I kid you not. I am
of course posting under windows - but I was using Napster which I
believe was the culprit. This has never happened under Linux for me -
but the point is again, this has nothing to do with what we are talking
about - valid as it may be.
> >> Your post contained lots of feel good phrases on behalf of Windows, but
> >> little substance.
> >
> > Well read this and comment. I can see now what your typical attitude is.
> > The red mist is strong in this one. If you read my comments in context
> > then you would understand that I am a user of both Linux and Windows, so
> > I say these comments with the point being to show that all is not evil
> > that M$ has done. Open your mind to ideas that are good and everything
> > will improve. Keep your red mist and be stuck in the past.
>
> I don't think you have done a very good job of highlighting Windows' good
> points.
:-(
I thought I did quite a good job at extolling the joys of component
programming from a programmers perspective.
You are keeping me up past my bed-time and I am now in the "i may be
talking crap but i don't care" stage....
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 01:39:10 +0000
Donn Miller wrote:
> > Show me DirectX.
>
> Perhaps XFree86's DGA extension is an analog here.
>
> http://ftp2.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/XFree86/4.0.2/doc/README.DGA
>
> Interestingly enough, Wine uses this DGA mode (optionally, though) to
> run Win 9x DirectX aps.
Interesting... I'll have a look - thanks
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windoze Domination/Damnation
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 01:42:39 +0000
>> Unless most people don't know that there are alternatives (which they
>> don't). Besides, having paid for something is usually incentive to use
>> it.
>
> And how much does it cost, with a system?
>
> £100?
> £50?
> £30...
>
> It's around £30 or less. That's a big expense is it?
£30 for something I never use is a big expense.
And I get my computer stuff from a small independent retailer (much
better quality of service) so it costs £90, IIRC. That's even worse.
-Ed
--
|
Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:50:03 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Nigel wrote:
>
> > Hmmmmmmmm. I think not. Unless you have a postscript printer. Too much
> > buggering around from defaults.
> >
> > How do you get that paper out message? Select different print trays?
> > <skating on thin ice here as I could be wrong>
> >
>
> Easily solved - use CUPS (common unix printing system) or
> GnomePrint drivers (drivers available for almost all printers and
> support all commands available on same printers under windblows).
Or, I use Appsfilter. It works pretty decent for me. Basically, it
sets up a proper /etc/printcap file for you to use in conjunction with
ghostscript and various other conversion programs. This allows you to
print thru the lpd spooler. For example, I can do lpr -Plp1 resume.ps
on a non-postscript printer, and it transparently prints postscript to a
non-postscript printer. A lot of the unix/X apps use lpr for printing.
Spooling a file to GhostScript is often your best bet. Appsfilter will
convert a jpeg image to PS format with ImageMagick, which is then piped
to GS for coversion to your printer's native printer language, such as
HP PCL. GS does support an aweful lot of printers, and the output looks
really great.
In fact, Appsfilter will also work with the HP Deskjet 722C, which is a
WinPrinter. You need some util called ppa2pnm (???) for this, though,
as a front-end to ghostscript for this to work. It's a good thing, as I
have this model. I plan on trying it, too.
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is Giving Microsoft a Migraine
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 01:50:57 +0000
In article <97udf0$dae$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Bloody Viking"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Edward Rosten ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> : To mount the redhat disk:
>
> : mount the disk. gunzip initrd to /tmp
> : mount that file on the loopback device.
>
> I simply mount install floppies with mount /dev/fd0 -t ext2 /mnt and
> just go to the /mnt dir and start inspecting. If I choose to mess with
> said disk and save it, I just rawcopy it like cp /dev/fd0 file and then
> later cp file
> /dev/fd0 to make another floppy.
The main filesystem on the RH bootdisk is a gzipped image.
> I simply don't bother with the loopback device only becuse I forgot how
> to use it. (: I've done it in the past but forgot. This with devices as
> "files" is pretty cool with UNIX and Linux.
mount /whereever/image /mnt/mount_point -oloop
> : Also, RH uses syslinux to boot the disk, as opposed to Lilo.
>
> Are there scripts that go with that syslinux booter? It might serve as
> an alternative to the LILO booter, like how I use Loadlin today.
Dunno. try a google search.
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 01:54:40 +0000
>> No. Not at all. How is this the fault of Linux as you keep claiming?
>
> So apps think it's ok to have their own drivers?
Yes.
> Shouldn't the OS decide that?
Why shouldn't apps have their own drivers if they wish?
>> You keep saying it is the fault of the OS. How? it is nothing to do
>> with the OS. You are the one not listening. The OS has no control over
>> what the apps think they can do.
>
> The OS decides what apps can and cannot do.
You could set up the filter to print nothing but PS or plain text, but
why would you want to do that?
Windows lets apps use thier own drivers, so why don't you whinge on about
that as well.
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
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