Linux-Advocacy Digest #706, Volume #30 Thu, 7 Dec 00 03:13:02 EST
Contents:
Nothing to say but, WOW (sfcybear)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (kiwiunixman)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Kelsey Bjarnason")
Re: Linux is awful ("Kelsey Bjarnason")
Re: [OT] Gore & Bush (kiwiunixman)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Christmas Virus Warning (David Dorward)
Re: OS tree - SOUND OFF! ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Linux is awful ("Kelsey Bjarnason")
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (kiwiunixman)
Re: Linux is awful ("Kelsey Bjarnason")
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("Tom Wilson")
Toyota plans to roll out linux: (kiwiunixman)
Re: Linux is awful ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Whistler review. (kiwiunixman)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Tom Wilson")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Nothing to say but, WOW
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:10:47 GMT
"...server hosting more than 1500 virtual Linux servers simultaneously."
http://eltoday.com/article.php3?ltsn=2000-12-07-001-01-PS
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:41:49 GMT
<snip>
>
> I like your set list!
>
> One of the reasons I get nostalgic for VH is the boy/girl band thing.
> Remember the late seventies? Disco and a lot of the teen idol garbage. And,
> out of nowhere, you tuned in and heard Eruption/You Really Got Me! It was
> like they were playing taps for KC and the Sunshine Band and the Osmonds.
> Loved it! I play a little guitar too so the VH connection was a given.
Right now I am listening to "That 70s Album", on it, one of the songs is
by, "The Alan Parsons Project", heard of them from the movie "Austin
Powers", the music is pretty good. A group very similar to the Eagles
that is on the cd would be America, who sings, "Ventura Highway". But
the most used album I have would be "The very best of Electric Light
Orchestra", if it was a record, it would be worn out (if it is possible
to wear out a record :) ).
kiwiunixman
------------------------------
From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:37:30 GMT
[snips]
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
> > > > 63,000 bugs? Got a cite for that?
> > >
> > > It came direct from a Microsoft kernel programmer.
> >
> > Really? What was his name?
>
> Kelsey Bjarnason.
Really? Funny; I know a few of the developers at MS; you'd think one of
them would have mentioned something if I had a namesake working there.
'Course, the more likely explanation is that there is no such person with
that name working there, and that in fact, you simply chose that name as a
matter of convenience, rather than of fact. As I said, you're short on
credibility here, and losing ground fast.
>
> > Where's the copy of the posting where he said
> > this? Did he actually say "bugs", or did he say "issues"?
>
> "issues" is even worse...because 10 issues usually turns
> out to be MORE than 10 bugs.
I see you've never done software development; given 10 issues, it's unlikely
that even one of them is an actual bug.
------------------------------
From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:44:44 GMT
"kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> 1. Grow some balls and use your proper email address.
I believe mine is correct.
> 2. Windows cannot, and will not work for weeks with out a reboot, maybe
> two to three days I could believe, be anything longer than that, I can't
> see happening.
39 days before the 2nd-last reboot (due to system-level updates), 17 days
since last reboot (because I powered down the machine to move it).
> 3. Windows 2000 Pro, if I were to use it instead of Win9x (I have used
> Win2000), look at the freemem after loading Win200 (65MB used), WTF 65
> just to load Windows (unmodified)! compared to 38MB for a clean,
> unmodified boot of SuSE Linux Pro 7.0
65Mb _not_ "just to load Windows"; 65Mb includes, if you care to check, a
fair bit of cache space which will happily be handed off to applications as
needed. Don't confuse memory _preferred_ with memory _required_.
> 4. Windows 9x sucks as multi-tasking, try using the net, wordprocess
> and listen to an MP3, slow response, and wtf! is the memory gone to? try
> that type of simple multi-tasking experiment on Linux or any commerical
> UNIX, it is like silk, smooth and responsive.
Settle for WinME? Let's see what I can do with it...
Start a 600Mb file copy.
Fire up an MP3.
Start a news download session.
Fire up a compile.
Browse the web.
Hmm, nope - no slow responses, no memory losses, sorry, missed your point
here.
> 5. Inefficient TCP/IP stack.
Possibly; wouldn't know - I can't say I've ever had any problems with it.
------------------------------
From: kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [OT] Gore & Bush
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:51:46 GMT
<snip>
I got this about 3 weeks ago on the Locost kit-car mailing list, but
here is the full email:
NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
To the citizens of the United States of America.
In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus to
govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your
independence, effective today.Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other
territories. Except Utah,which she does not fancy.
Your new Prime Minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of
you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your
borders) will appoint a minister for America without the need for
further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded.
A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of
you noticed.
To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following
rules are introduced with immediate effect:.
1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.
Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be
amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you
should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary".
Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such
as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of
communication. Look up "interspersed".
2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on
your behalf.
3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents.It
really isn't that hard.
4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the
good guys.
5. You should re-learn your original national anthem, "God Save The
Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you
to get confused and give up half way through.
6. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new
national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive
Day".
Thank you for your cooperation.
Liz HRH (Buck Pal)
________________________________________________________________________
Just abit of election fun whilst waiting for the official results.
kiwiunixman
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:52:02 GMT
"B. P. Uecker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom Wilson wrote in <7BsX5.5083$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >> Netware is famous for abending at the drop of the hat. If all you do
> >> with Netware is sit it in the corner and serve out saved documents to
> >> PC users using IPX, it works.
> >
> >That's all you should have done with it. Its' what it was designed for.
>
> Yes, no shit, that's why it's dead. Next post: Tom writes in to tell
> the world that Lotus 1-2-3 is dead, and anyway you should just use
> whatever came with your Linux distro. What a genius.
The only thing this post has shown me is that you're either young or don't
know your ass from a hole in the ground. Possibly both.
Your claim that NetWare its "famous for abending at the drop of a hat". Tell
that to anyone who routinely managed properly implemented Novell servers,
back in the day, and you'll get showered in spit from the laughter. Make
the same claim about NT and you'll most likely get an agreement. Instead of
raising the bar, NT lowered it. That its' performance with something so
simple as file serving doesn't at least equal its' predecessor is damned
near inexcusable. And to top it off, NT's stability is several notches below
its' predecessor too. Hell, Charles Manson is more stable than NT.
For that matter, with all that funding and development time behind it, NT
got its' ass kicked by a Unix clone built by a loosely coordinated band of
hackers and some guy in Finland. Now that is SAD!
Novell had to die to make way for THAT....
I'm still not sure if WinAdvocacy stems from inexperience or denial. Maybe
someone out there can enlighten me.
--
Tom Wilson
Go home Al....
Game over, man!
------------------------------
From: David Dorward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Christmas Virus Warning
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 06:57:05 +0000
David Dorward wrote:
> Why? Does it affect Linux users?! :) <-- please note: scarcasm
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS tree - SOUND OFF!
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:58:20 GMT
"tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:90n3tf$j7b$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> The Vic-20 had 3.5k; got mine up to a whopping 11.5k with an 8k
> expansion cartridge.
Sounds identical to mine...Datasette or 1540?
>
> The Timex/Sinclair 1000 was a whole 'nother story. Whopping 1.5k!
The piggyback memory expansion modules were a trip! Stomp on the floor and
wham - Down for the count.
--
Tom Wilson
=====BEGIN GEEK CODE=====
GCS d- s++ a C UL+++ P+ L+++ E W N++ o K- w++ O- M-- V-- PS-- PE++ Y PGP-
t-- 5-- X-- R- tv-- b+++ DI++ D+ G- e++ h* r++ y++
======END GEEK CODE======
------------------------------
From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:55:48 GMT
"WorLord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Taken from the obscure and questionable writings of "Kelsey Bjarnason"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> :
>
> >Odd; I installed it just the other day - or tried to. It wouldn't even
> >recogniz that the drives _existed_, never mind supporting them.
> >UltraDMA-100. Doesn't understand it at all, apparently. 'Course.
throwing
> >them onto the IDE bus let it find them - but so much for the UDMA
support.
>
> Tell me something, do you try to install Intel software onto an IMAC?
>
> No?
>
> Then why are you trying to install an OS that *clearly states* that
> UDMA-100 is *not* supported onto a computer that has a UDMA-100
> controller?
Hey, this is *Linux* - the be-all and end-all of OSen, right? Hint: WinME -
which was released _before_ this particular distro of Linux, if I'm not
mistaken - at least recognized the drives, installed on them, booted from
them, and once I'd installed the drivers for the UDMA controller (included
with the system, BTW) voila - UDMA100 support.
Compare that to Mandrake. Can't even _install_ it, it won't recognize the
drives, even as IDE. Yup, modern, advanced, powerful... but won't even
install. Love it.
------------------------------
From: kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 07:02:21 GMT
<snip>
>
> As I recall, Lenin and his gang went around yelling slogans like:
> "XLEB!" ("Bread!") and
> "MIR!" ("Peace!")
>
> I don't recall Lenin and his gang going around yelling:
> "Help build A Police State for Russia!"
> "Executions for all who disagree with us"
>
> Yet, that's exactly what they 'gave' to Russia"
During the rebuilding of Russia (after the first world war), they
actually achieved a pretty good combination of State and Private
ownership. Large SOE (State Own Enterprises) such as power plants etc
were owned by the state, farms, and non-strategic business's were
allowed to be owned privately. However, everything turned to shit when
Stalin started to nationalise everthing left, right and centre, had
Trosky been the successor to the leadership of Russia, the problems
would never of been faced as Trosky was similar to Lenin, and wanted
moderation, compared to Stalins extremist, failed "communisation", the
best example was the forced collectivisation of Farms which resulted in
massive fammins, however, he blamed the kulaks (well of pesants) for
Russian wowes rather than addressing the problem, that is, the
inefficiently of the Public sector to allocate resources efficiently.
kiwiunixman
------------------------------
From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 06:57:06 GMT
"kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> From what I understand, the UDMA 100 card mentioned in the original
> post is one of those PCI add in cards,
The OP was from me... and no, it's not a card; it's the controller built
into the motherboard. One of the controllers, actually; it has both a 100
and a 66/IDE controller.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 07:12:08 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom Wilson wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Tom Wilson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:t8NW5.11238$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > Charlie Ebert wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And I agree with your comments. The Democrats haven't
supported
> > > > > > > the middle class in 20 or more years.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have become a nation of extremist parties.
> > > > > > > You are either extreme rightwing or your extreme leftwing and
> > > > > > > the middle ground where most of us stand is not being
represented.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This in itself is an extremely dangerous thing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ya damn liberal! <grin>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Liberal" now is as bad as "Commie" used to be! What a world!
> > > > >
> > > > > When you get down to it, what's the difference between them, other
> > > > > than the spelling?
> > > >
> > > > Actually, liberals are more socialist than communist. But, let's no
> > split
> > > > hairs, eh?
> > >
> > > Communism ***IS**** Socialism.
> >
> > With a key difference:
> >
> > so·cial·ism n. 1.a. A social system in which the means of producing and
> > distributing goods are owned collectively and political power is
exercised
> > by the whole community. b. The theory or practice of those who support
such
> > a social system. 2. The building of the material base for communism
under
> > the dictatorship of the proletariat in Marxist-Leninist theory.
> >
> > com·mu·nism n. 1. A theoretical economic system characterized by the
> > collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for
the
> > common advantage of all members. 2. Communism.a. A system of government
in
> > which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often
> > authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a
higher
> > social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people. b. The
> > Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the
overthrow
> > of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat.
> >
> > Socialism is anarchy as practiced by flower-children.
> >
> > Communism is socialism under a single, authoritarian rule.
> >
>
>
> The only difference between Socialists and overt-Communists is that
> the Communists are honest enough to admit that the only way to fully
> implement socialism is to install a police state AND black-mail
> everybody into conforming by over-taxation so that the people
> have to BEG the government to get back their own money.
That's the one thing true liberals don't understand. You can coat all of the
high ideals and principals you like on humanity but it boils down to
this...We're little more than apes with opposable thumbs and firearms. The
type-A's out there will build a power base and molest the sheep. Law of the
jungle. There ain't no equal property!
> > Note: I said LIBERALS are socialists....Add the Democratic Party and
what do
> > you get????
>
> American Communism.
A+
--
Tom Wilson
Registered Linux User #194021
http://counter.li.org
------------------------------
From: kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Toyota plans to roll out linux:
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 07:12:52 GMT
When the auto giant decided to create a comprehensive network to
communicate with its 1,200 American car dealers, it wanted the same
reliability in its operating system -- and chose Linux.
http://eltoday.com/article.php3?ltsn=2000-10-24-002-01-AC-LF
kiwiunixman
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 01:16:41 -0600
"Uncle Fester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > "Uncle Fester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Odds are, you're under 80% free. As a gamer, anything under 85%
> > > required a reboot or thing started getting slow. And it's only been a
> > > couple hours! ;-) But I'm just a BS'ing Linux asshole, what do I
know?
> >
> > That's complete bullshit. You don't even know what that figure means.
> >
> > Hint: Resources are not what you think they are.
>
> First 640k of memory.
Just as I thought. You don't know what it means.
System Resources is an average of the three 64K system heaps in 16 bit
Windows. These are used for GDI handles, Menu handles, global 16 bit memory
handles, etc.. They have nothing to do with the first 640k.
Further, being low on resources does not slow your system down. The only
negative aspect that these resources are capable of producings is if you run
out of them completely, in which case windows will fail to open and a few
other peculiarities.
------------------------------
From: kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 20:23:15 +1300
And I always remember what my lecturer said, "check, check and double
check, I don't want Microsoft like programming, I want to see perfection!"
kiwiunixman
Tom Wilson wrote:
> "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>> In the past they (university) used Pascal to teach programming, however, I
>> think they had a new lecturer the year I attended.
>
>
> Too bad...Pascal, IMHO, is the best language out there to teach modular
> programming with. BASIC's ease of use plus strong typing. Excellent combo.
>
> <snip>
>
> --
> Tom Wilson
> Registered Linux User #194021
> http://counter.li.org
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 07:34:24 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:28FX5.1647$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:%IvX5.5120$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > I said "not possible unless you have admin privs". Which is true.
You
> > need
> > > to get admin privs in order to install a trojan that could do this.
> >
> > Are we talking about a false dialog being left on the server console or
a
> > workstation or are we talking about physically pre-empting the logiin
> > sequence with a trojan?
>
> I'm talking, there is no way for a user mode trojan to simulate a login to
> NT in a way that would fool anyone except someone with no idea how to log
in
> to NT.
>
> In most Unixen, you need only write a program that clears the screen and
> prints "Login:" and accepts input, then prints "Password:" and accepts
that
> input, then su's to that user or calls login themselves to steal
passwords.
> This would be indistinguishable from a normal login to anyone but the most
> advanced user (and even then they would have to be looking for it to
> notice).
>
> In NT, a user mode program cannot capture C-A-D, thus it cannot simulate
an
> NT login in a way that would fool someone that has ever logged into NT
> before. It would be immediately obvious that something was wrong unless
> they were paying absolutely no attention.
I'm almost willing to bet it is possible...
If I get bored Thursday night, I might just fire up VC++ and see. I've
captured Alt-Tab and most of the others (POS software that can't be exited
or switched w/o a password) I outgrew the hacker shit years ago, but, I
need a break from the project I'm working on. Sounds like fun!
--
Tom Wilson
Registered Linux User #194021
http://counter.li.org
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 07:09:36 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>> Bill Vermillion writes:
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>>>> The ATX power _switch_, on the other hand, is counter-intuitive.
>>>>> How do you switch OFF the computer? Is that really OFF (i.e.
>>>>> disconnected from the main sockets electrically)?
>>>> I'm not familiar with the ATX.
>>> ATX is a board form factor. ATX power supplies are normally not
>>> really off. There is a trickle so that the system 'goes to sleep'
>>> with minimal power until you press a keyboard, it is accessed via a
>>> network [wake on LAN feature] or a modem dial in [wake on Modem].
>>>
>>> The latter two typically have a jumper so that the Lan card or the
>>> modem tickles the computer, the power supply and computer fires up
>>> in full mode. It's an always-on system but in doze mode power
>>> consumption is very low. In the single digit percentage ranges.
>> Not exactly uncommon. When my VCR is "off", it's still on by
>> enough to keep a clock running and monitor its programming to
>> determine whether to turn "on" (or should I say "more on") and
>> record a program. Doesn't make the power switch any less
>> intuitive.
> Other than the LABEL that says power, please describe the
> IMMEDIATELY ASCERTAINABLE difference between a power switch
> and some other 2-position switch.
When I press the power button, the display comes alive.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 07:12:19 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
> Steve Mading wrote:
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>>>>> Everyone has to "consult the manual" (or a friend, or the
>>>>>> on-line help) at some point early in their learning process.
>>>>> I know some first-time computer users that did not need to
>>>>> consult the manual or a friend to know what to do with the
>>>>> power cord, for example.
>>>> That's because they're already familiar with how to handle a power
>>>> cord when they dealt with hundreds (if not thousands) of other
>>>> electrical appliances.
>>> Precisely what helps to make something intuitive, contrary to Aaron's
>>> claim.
>> Something being similar to itself isn't the kind of intuitive you've
>> been talking about though, as you pointed out when I tried bringing
>> up vi's internal consistency. So you seem to be talking about
>> things being similar to *other* things. Pointing out that power cords
>> are similar to power cords isn't going to prove your point then.
>> You've got to show how power cords are similar to things that aren't
>> power cords.
> Forget it. Tholen is too fucking STUPID to comprehend any of this.
How ironic, coming from someone who has yet to comprehend the problems
with his "primitive tribesman" argument. Your alleged intuitive wagon
isn't intuitive, according to your own reasoning (recall the six-month-
old).
Meanwhile, I note that your reliance on invective is consistent with
your lack of a logical argument.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 07:18:01 GMT
Russ Lyttle writes:
>>>> Steve Mading writes:
>>>>>> Why are you citing evidence that destroys your argument, Aaron?
>>>>>> Familiarity (or experience, to use my word for it) does not have
>>>>>> to be universal before something can be declared "intuitive".
>>>>>> Here's a good rule of thumb: if you need to consult the manual,
>>>>>> it's not intuitive.
>>>>> Everyone has to "consult the manual" (or a friend, or the on-line
>>>>> help) at some point early in their learning process.
>>>> I know some first-time computer users that did not need to consult
>>>> the manual or a friend to know what to do with the power cord, for
>>>> example.
>>> I have earned a lot of money plugging in power cords for people.
>> Congratulations. I know people who replace water heaters, and they
>> also plug in the power cord for customers while installing the
>> replacement appliance.
>>> The first electronics job I had was making calls to fix TV sets.
>> Not to install them? Televisions that hadn't yet been used don't
>> usually require fixing.
> Both. The most common was after the set was at home. Most people, by
> that time, were trying to install the sets themselves.
And you're claiming that they didn't know enough to plug it in? Do
these people use a toaster? A lamp? A microwave oven?
>>> About half the time the problem was the power cord wasn't plugged in.
>> But was it because they didn't know that it had to be plugged in, or
>> had it accidently become unplugged without them knowing it? There's
>> a big difference there. I've seen it happen to people many times.
> They didn't know all the subtilities of operating a power cord.
What "subtleties"?
> Plug it in all the way.
What's subtle about that?
> Unplug it before moving the set.
Are you saying that the cord was damaged from strain?
> If the light doesn't come on check the power cord. That sort of thing.
What's subtle about that?
>>> I learned very quickly not to just plug in the cord and send a bill
>>> for $50. I would futz around a while, take the back off, look intent.
>>> Then put the back on and plug it in.
>> You're admitting to what some people would consider a "dishonest"
>> service call?
> No. They got charged the same, the fee for one hour service call.
Even if it took one minute?
> I just decided not to upset them by pointing out that they didn't know
> how to operate a power cord.
Which would have been rather presumptuous of you.
>>> When PCs came out, there were more power cords not to be plugged in
>>> and thus more business.
>> Some people prefer to have experts install new gizmos for them.
>> Doesn't mean that they don't have the intuition to plug it in for
>> themselves.
> But that doesn't mean the power cord is all that "intutive" either.
Doesn't mean it isn't "intutive" [sic] either.
>>>>>SNIP<<
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