Linux-Advocacy Digest #869, Volume #30 Thu, 14 Dec 00 06:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:39:26 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>> Steve Mading writes:
>>>>>> The Ghost In The Machine writes:
>>>>>>> And then there are the laptops.... :-) Some of those can get
>>>>>>> downright weird.
>>>>>> Which is why Steve was being rather presumptuous.
>>>>> I admit it - I was being presumptuous in assuming that if you had
>>>>> some unique keyboard layout that was different, that you'd (1) be
>>>>> honest enough to say so in this discussion,
>>>> My keyboard layout is hardly unique. That it is different is hardly
>>>> to be unexpected, given the sheer number of different keyboards out
>>>> there.
>>>>> and (2) realize that youi're being silly to argue the merits of key
>>>>> layouts for editors based on a very unique situation that won't work
>>>>> for others.
>>>> You're once again being presumptuous, given that my situation is
>>>> hardly unique.
>>>>> I apologise for presuming you would be honest and forthcoming.
>>>> I have been honest and forthcoming.
>>>>> Now I know not to make that mistake again.
>>>> Where is the alleged mistake in that presumption?
>>> Tholen...
>>> when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
>>> remember to slit lengthwise.
>> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
>> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
> Tholen...
>
> When you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> remember to slit lengthwise.
Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
is, remember to come back here and apologize.
> Or maybe you can offer yourself to one of the local Hawaiian volcano gods.
Or maybe you can learn to develop a civil tongue. I won't hold my breath.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:40:50 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>> Steve Mading writes:
>>>>>>>>> Neato. Meanwhile us poor humans have fingers that don't bend that
>>>>>>>>> way. For us humans, to move the fingers 8 inches to the left
>>>>>>>>> requires that the *wrist* slides over, which means the the whole
>>>>>>>>> forearm is moving too, hinged at the elbow.
>>>>>>>> My keyboard has its cursor keys on the right, at about the same
>>>>>>>> distance from the home row as the Esc key.
>>>>>>> Then it doesn't look anything like any keyboard I've ever seen.
>>>>>> That's not my problem. You were the presumptumous one.
>>>>> Yes, I admit that I presumed you were referring to a keyboard that
>>>>> is actually out on the market somewhere,
>>>> I am.
>>>>> rather than some home-made thing,
>>>> Hardly.
>>>>> or some proprietary laptop one-of-a-kind layout.
>>>> Hardly one-of-a-kind. I have no idea whether it's considered
>>>> proprietary or not.
>>>>> I also presumed you weren't lying.
>>>> I'm not.
>>>>> Admitedly, those presumptions could have been wrong.
>>>> As well as your presumption that the Esc key is closer than the
>>>> cursor keys.
>>>>>>> The Escape key is close and easily whackable without
>>>>>>> looking, and without looking you can get your fingers
>>>>>>> right back to the home row without even feeling for the
>>>>>>> keys, my kinestetic sense just knows where to go, because
>>>>>>> I don't have to move the hand more than about 1/2 an inch,
>>>>>>> and that's a stretch-forward motion rather than a swing-
>>>>>>> sideways motion.
>>>>>> The cursor keys are close and easily whackable without looking,
>>>>>> and without looking you can get your fingers right back to the
>>>>>> home row without even feeling for the keys, my kinestetic sense
>>>>>> just knows where to go, because I don't have to move the hand
>>>>>> more than about 1/2 an inch, and that's a stretch-backward motion
>>>>>> rather than a swing-sideways motion.
>>>>> You enjoy this game of repeating what I say, replacing words with
>>>>> a fill-in-the-blank replacement.
>>>> There is no enjoyment involved. I'm simply showing that the same
>>>> situation applies to the cursor keys.
>>>>> But there is one key difference:
>>>>> What I said is actually universally true.
>>>> Balderdash.
>>>>> You are either lying or using some really unique keyboard layout
>>>>> and not telling anyone.
>>>> You just contradicted your "universally true" claim. Nevertheless,
>>>> the layout is hardly "unique".
>>>>>>> (Which is why it's easy to find the home row - just relax the
>>>>>>>> Those letters aren't on the home row.
>>>>>>> Yeah, the 'huh' was wondering how this relates to what I'm
>>>>>>> talking about.
>>>>>> You were talking about staying by the hjkl keys.
>>>>> Do you seriously expect anyone to believe that it is just as
>>>>> hard to find home row after stretching single fingers at a time,
>>>>> up and down one row (as in "yuiopnm") as it is after moving to
>>>>> the arrow keys?
>>>> "My kinestetic sense just knows where to go."
>>>>> You're daft.
>>>> And now you're getting insulting. No surprise there, actually.
>>>> It's not uncommon for people to resort to such language when
>>>> they have nothing else.
>>>>>> Irrelevant, given that I never stated otherwise.
>>>>>>> hjkl is the second-most minimal movement pattern you can have (right
>>>>>>> after 'jkl;').
>>>>>> Except that three letters only provide three motions. You need four
>>>>>> for a two-dimensional screen.
>>>>> Learn to count.
>>>> You're erroneously presupposing that I don't already know how to count.
>>>>> How many characters are there in "hjkl" and "jkl;" ?
>>>> jkl is only three letters.
>>> Tholen...
>>> when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
>>> remember to slit lengthwise.
>> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
>> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
> Tholen...
>
> When you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> remember to slit lengthwise.
Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
is, remember to come back here and apologize.
> Or maybe you can offer yourself to one of the local Hawaiian volcano gods.
Or maybe you can learn to develop a civil tongue. I won't hold my breath.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:42:55 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>> Steve Mading writes:
>>>>>>>> And that somehow makes the use of hjkl for cursor movement intuitive?
>>>>>>> It is neither intuitive nor non-intuitive, since the term is so
>>>>>>> relative that you've have to spend a long time detailing all the
>>>>>>> user's previous circumstances before you can make a statement
>>>>>>> either way on it.
>>>>>> How many users have previous editor experience where the cursor is
>>>>>> controlled by the hjkl keys?
>>>> Note: no response.
>>>>>>> Simply saying, "never used vi before" isn't enough.
>>>>>> Fortunately, I've said more than that.
>>>>> True enough. It still isn't enough to just say, 'never used a text
>>>>> editor before' either.
>>>> Irrelevant, given that I didn't say just that either.
>>>>> Arguing whether something is intuitive or
>>>>> not CANNOT BE DONE UNIVERSALLY.
>>>> Irrelevant, given that I didn't argue that either.
>>>>> That is my point.
>>>> Why make an irrelevant point? If you'd been paying attention, you'd
>>>> already know that I've said that intuition is not an absolute.
>>>>> You have to give a *HUGE* list of pre-conditions, one little sentence
>>>>> like that isn't enough to narrow it down.
>>>> Fortunately, I've given more than that one little sentence.
>>>>> That's why arguing whether or not something is "intuitive" is silly.
>>>> I don't find it silly. If you do, then why are you arguing about it?
>>>>> It's too vague and slippery a term.
>>>> I disagree. Just because it isn't an absolute doesn't necessarily
>>>> make it "vague and slippery".
>>>>> Unless you feel like getting pendantic enough to list zillions of
>>>>> criteria, the term won't mean anything.
>>>> Funny how so many people make valid use of it without listing zillions
>>>> of criteria.
>>>>> (This is not the same as what Aaron was saying, that nothing can be
>>>>> intuitive.
>>>> That's not what he said. He said that nothing about computers is
>>>> intuitive. He distinctly called a wagon intuitive. It's now quite
>>>> clear where the problem is: you don't pay attention to what you
>>>> read.
>>>>> Things can be intuitive, but in a way that is not nearly
>>>>> as universally applicable as the user interface designers trick
>>>>> themselves into thinking.
>>>> Who said anything about "universally applicable"?
>>>>> There is no such thing as universal user friendliness, and there
>>>>> is no such thing as *universal* intuitiveness.
>>>> Irrelevant, given that I haven't encountered anyone in this discussion
>>>> who believes otherwise.
>>>>> User interface designers make assumptions about the
>>>>> users' previous experiences without realizing it.)
>>>> Some designers do realize it.
>>>>>>> I never used it before, the first time I got my hands on
>>>>>>> it, but I picked it up fast. And no, I didn't like it at first,
>>>>>>> I hated the HJKL thing.
>>>>>> Liking or hating it isn't the issue. The issue is whether the cursor
>>>>>> movement using those keys was intuitive or not.
>>>>>>> But I *did* remember it and not have to waste time looking it up,
>>>>>> Remember it from what?
>>>>> The first time I looked at the 'cheat sheet', saw the 'hjkl',
>>>> Thus you needed to consult a "manual" of sorts.
>>>>> I immediately recognized that they must have been chosen because of
>>>>> thier proximity on the keyboard, and *poof*, I never forgot what
>>>>> they were.
>>>> Irrelevant, given that intuition is different from ease of remembering
>>>> something.
>>>>> I still didn't like the modal nature of it (yet), but
>>>>> I never sat around pulling out my hair going, 'Oh, damn - what was
>>>>> that command again - gee if only it were more intuitive so I could
>>>>> remember.'
>>>> Do all such vi commands fall into that category?
>>>>>>> so it wasn't a matter of intuitiveness that made me hate it - it
>>>>>>> was that I thought modal editing took too many keystrokes,
>>>>>>> constantly switching modes.
>>>>>> That is one of my dislikes as well.
>>>>>>> After I got really fast at it, and could compare, I was seeing that
>>>>>>> the modal editing was actually faster for me, precisely becuase I
>>>>>>> had less keys to have to cover with my fingers.
>>>>>> It's slower for me. So what? Speed wasn't the issue either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, I'm quite surprised at how much the discussion has
>>>>>> diverged from the issue. Seems like vi fans are trying to defend
>>>>>> their choice of editor, as if the comment that the use of hjkl for
>>>>>> cursor movement being non-intuitive was some sort of attack against
>>>>>> which a defense had to be mounted.
>>>>> It's becuase you *also* lace your comments with disparaging comments
>>>>> about vi, as side points.
>>>> What alleged "disparaging comments"? I simply said that the use of
>>>> hjkl for cursor movement was not intuitive, and the vi defenders showed
>>>> up right after that.
>>>>> In usenet, side points like this spawn replies all the time.
>>>> What alleged "side points"? I simply said that the use of
>>>> hjkl for cursor movement was not intuitive, and the vi defenders showed
>>>> up right after that.
>>>>> It's not surprising at all.
>>>> It that supposed to be some sort of justification for your diversions?
>>> Tholen...
>>> when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
>>> remember to slit lengthwise.
>> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
>> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
> Tholen...
>
> When you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> remember to slit lengthwise.
Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
is, remember to come back here and apologize.
> Or maybe you can offer yourself to one of the local Hawaiian volcano gods.
Or maybe you can learn to develop a civil tongue. I won't hold my breath.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:42:16 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>> Les Mikesell writes:
>>>>>>> Not true. What if you want to look for something ("Please find the
>>>>>>> word "goose" in this document")?
>>>>>> You don't use hjkl.
>>>>> You do if you want to move the screen a line one way or the other
>>>>> after finding the match.
>>>> You can do that with control-U (for up) and control-D (for down), which
>>>> actually have mnemonics.
>>>>>>> Do that in traditional 'more' and you still have to scan
>>>>>>> the page with your eyes once it comes up.
>>>>>> Finding an occurrence of a string is a rather different matter from
>>>>>> simply viewing a document. The latter was what he brought up.
>>>>> No it isn't.
>>>> Balderdash. I suggest you review the thread.
>>>>> I almost always search for something when I view a document.
>>>> What you almost always do is irrelevant. Viewing a document is
>>>> what was brought up, not searching a document. By the way, you
>>>> can search a document with grep.
>>>>> Being able to do it the same way in the viewer as in an editor
>>>>> makes the one you learned second intuitive.
>>>> Only if you know beforehand that the two operate the same way.
>>>>>>>> My point is that its action isn't intuitive.
>>>>>>> To whom?
>>>>>> To someone who hasn't used it before. Who else? Intuition
>>>>>> doesn't apply to something that someone already knows.
>>>>> Of course it does.
>>>> I suggest you learn the definition of intuition. Knowing how to
>>>> brush your teeth in the morning because you've been doing it for
>>>> years doesn't mean it's now intuitive.
>>>>> How can someone that doesn't know anything at all use a computer?
>>>> By reading the manual. That doesn't involve intuition; it involves
>>>> learning.
>>>>>> You have a peculiar notion of intuition. Needing to know a bunch
>>>>>> of things suddenly makes something intuitive.
>>>>> Being able to re-use the same thing you already know in
>>>>> another context makes the subsequent one intuitive.
>>>> How many previous editors use hjkl for cursor movement like vi?
>>>>> Vi lets you re-use almost everything you learn in many different
>>>>> ways.
>>>> I learned to use Alt-C to mark a block column; vi doesn't let me
>>>> re-use that. I learned to use Alt-W to write a buffer to disk;
>>>> vi doesn't let me re-use that. I learned to use Alt-X to exit
>>>> the editor; vi doesn't let me re-use that. I learned to use the
>>>> Home key to go to the top of the screen; vi doesn't let me re-use
>>>> that. Need I go on?
>>>>>>> If you stick '$' in where a character or character mover could go -
>>>>>>> it means eoln, if you stick it where a line number could go - it
>>>>>>> means last line. It's 100% consistent.
>>>>>> You mean the $ never means the dollar sign?
>>>>> Not in the range/motion part of a command.
>>>> So in other parts, it could be inconsistent.
>>>>>>> In the statement :1,$...something... the '$' is being used in the
>>>>>>> place of a line number.
>>>>>> Thus the symbol is overloaded, and not consistent.
>>>>> But the meanings have something in common so it is consistent.
>>>>> Note how our use of consistent is overloaded and not consistent.
>>>> Not consistent with one another. Your use could be erroneous.
>>>>> We do this all the time and find it easier than remembering a
>>>>> different symbol for every nuance of meaning.
>>>> But you need to remember a different meaning.
>>>>>>>> Is 4dk a special case?
>>>>>>> It fits the generic pattern: {number}{command}{movement}
>>>>>> I see you missed my point.
>>>>> I did as well.
>>>> Glad you agree.
>>>>> What point? It re-uses the same information you learned for
>>>>> every other vi command.
>>>> The key words here are "you learned".
>>>>>>>>> Carriage-returns are control-M characters
>>>>>>>> So one might expect to enter a control-M into the document by typing
>>>>>>>> control-M. Doesn't work. Oh, so you need a prefix. Now, what is so
>>>>>>>> intuitive about control-V as the prefix? A UNIX novice might expect
>>>>>>>> the backslash to be used as the prefix.
>>>>>>> Ctrl-V is common in many other unix interactive tools.
>>>>>> Backslash is common in many other UNIX applications.
>>>>> Backslash is the 'high level' escape actually seen by application
>>>>> level input and a backslash preceding the end-of-line typically
>>>>> means the app should ignore the line end and consider the next
>>>>> line a continuation.
>>>> That there might be different levels of escape is also not intuitive.
>>>>> The control-V is normally the 'lnext' character in the tty input
>>>>> subsystem below application level.
>>>> The average user isn't going to know about tty input subsystems.
>>>>> For example you can input a literal control-C or control-Z
>>>>> into an application through the keyboard by preceding with
>>>>> the control-V, even though they would normally generate
>>>>> a signal at the OS level.
>>>> The average user isn't going to know about signals at the OS level.
>>>>> Vi is actually doing raw input and is in control of this escape
>>>>> mechanism so it doesn't have to match the OS 'lnext' character,
>>>>> but since the function is exactly the same, this is yet another
>>>>> place vi does the intuitive thing and re-uses what you know in
>>>>> another context.
>>>> You're presupposing knowledge of tty input subsystems and OS signals.
>>>>>> Do you consider yourself a UNIX novice?
>>>>> Why would that matter?
>>>> Intuition doesn't apply to people who already have experience.
>>>>> A novice has less chance to re-use knowledge in intuitive ways.
>>>> A novice has a greater chance to rely on intuition.
>>>>>>> It's mnemonic is "verbatim", as in, "Do this next character verbatim,
>>>>>>> ignoring any special meaning it may have."
>>>>>> And do you consider the mnemonic intuitive?
>>>>> Mnemonics are usually made up after the fact, but they are
>>>>> as intuitive as anything else.
>>>> Are you suggesting that control-U and control-D were chosen before
>>>> the "up" and "down" mnemonics were made up?
>>> Tholen...
>>> when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
>>> remember to slit lengthwise.
>> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
>> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
> Tholen...
>
> When you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> remember to slit lengthwise.
Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
is, remember to come back here and apologize.
> Or maybe you can offer yourself to one of the local Hawaiian volcano gods.
Or maybe you can learn to develop a civil tongue. I won't hold my breath.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:41:35 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>> Russ Lyttle writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve Mading writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not exactly uncommon. When my VCR is "off", it's still on by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough to keep a clock running and monitor its programming to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determine whether to turn "on" (or should I say "more on") and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> record a program. Doesn't make the power switch any less
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intuitive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, I would say that that sort of power switch is highly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unintuitive. Intuitively, you'd expect that turning something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off would, you know, actually turn it off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Depends on what you consider "off" to be. When you turn your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> microwave oven off, do you expect it to lose the time? (Yes,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that does presuppose an oven with a clock on the display.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there any new models that don't have one of those built in?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen any microwaves with an on/off button lately.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Okay then, "Start/Stop", if you must be pedantic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they had them, then yeah, I'd expect them to at least turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the display off, and go down to a trickle that only serves
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to maintain a few K of RAM (for the clock and maybe some programs)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (which takes very little power, as evidenced by calculators and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> watches, and could be done by battery like it is for CMOS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> settings on computers.)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even with the display on, it could still be a trickle.
>>>>>>>>>>> All this "unintuitive" behavior of power switches is causing a major
>>>>>>>>>>> problem in California.
>>>>>>>>>> Illogical. It is quite possible that people will generally know what
>>>>>>>>>> to do with a power switch without needing to consult a manual, but will
>>>>>>>>>> not generally know how much power is consumed in the on and off states.
>>>>>>>>>> Consider the AC adaptor for a modem, for example. The power switch is
>>>>>>>>>> on the modem, not the AC adaptor.
>>>>>>>>> Logical. The behavior of the power switch changed from its traditional
>>>>>>>>> role. People *think* it still works the way it did 10 years ago.
>>>>>>>> Oh really? Your Curtis Mathes is older than that. You claim it kept
>>>>>>>> the power on.
>>>>>>> Yes, but it was very unusual for its time.
>>>>>> Really? I had a clock-radio that when "off" kept the clock on. Very usual
>>>>>> for its time.
>>>> Note: no response.
>>>>>>>>> Its behavior isn't capable of being comprehended without logical thought.
>>>>>>>> And with logical thought, the average consumer will know how much power
>>>>>>>> is still being consumed by a unit even when the switch is in the off
>>>>>>>> position? That's not the issue here.
>>>>>>>>> (See definition of intuitive).
>>>>>>>> Practice what you preach.
>>>>>>>>> They are still trying to make decisions
>>>>>>>>> based on the traditional use of the power switch - power cord setup.
>>>>>>>> On the contrary, sounds like your example involves a mislabeled
>>>>>>>> button. There is a difference between "video blank" and "power off".
>>>>>>>> You've described the former. I've been talking about the latter.
>>>>>>> No, they concern the device that serves as a power switch these days.
>>>>>> An "off" switch that leaves 10 amps of power running isn't much of an
>>>>>> off switch.
>>>> Note: no response.
>>>>>>>>>>> The issue of all these devices still drawing power is keeping a
>>>>>>>>>>> load on the system that it wasn't designed to handle.
>>>>>>>>>> Are you suggesting that systems outside of California were somehow
>>>>>>>>>> designed to handle it?
>>>>>>>>> No. Outside CA, NY, and MA, there have been more plants built. These
>>>>>>>>> plants are now selling some of their excess off peak power to CA. In the
>>>>>>>>> past CA would sell power to Texas during the peak time in Texas and
>>>>>>>>> Texas would sell to CA during the peak time there. Now the transfer is
>>>>>>>>> all one way. To CA. But it is getting difficult for Texas utilities to
>>>>>>>>> justify building more plants just to have power to sell to CA. They have
>>>>>>>>> to justify the need for plants based on need in Texas.
>>>>>>>> That has nothing to do with being designed to handle the load.
>>>>>>>>>>> That coupled with lack of new power generation in California is putting
>>>>>>>>>>> a strain on the system now, promising a major breakdown in the near
>>>>>>>>>>> future.
>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like those Californians are going to have to do without their
>>>>>>>>>> 72-inch projection televisions. (Did your Curtis Mathes need 10 amps
>>>>>>>>>> to keep its filament going?)
>>>>>>>> Note: no response.
>>>>>>>>>>> Relying to much on intuition and not enough on reason is going
>>>>>>>>>>> to get a lot of people killed.
>>>>>>>>>> The power consumed by a device in the off state has absolutely
>>>>>>>>>> nothing to do with the issue of whether the power switch itself
>>>>>>>>>> is intuitive.
>>>>>>>> Note: no response.
>>>>>>> OK, what is your intuitive concept of the operation of a power switch?
>>>>>> One position is "on" and the other position is "off".
>>>>> The switch marked "on" and "off" on my 1903A4 Springfield is a Power
>>>>> Switch?
>>>> Show me your 1903A4 Springfield.
>>>>> Not all switches marked thus perform the same functions or
>>>>> perform the same functions the same way!
>>>> Irrelevant, given that I didn't say they do.
>>> Tholen...
>>> when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
>>> remember to slit lengthwise.
>> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
>> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
> Tholen...
>
> When you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> remember to slit lengthwise.
Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
is, remember to come back here and apologize.
> Or maybe you can offer yourself to one of the local Hawaiian volcano gods.
Or maybe you can learn to develop a civil tongue. I won't hold my breath.
------------------------------
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