Linux-Advocacy Digest #871, Volume #30 Thu, 14 Dec 00 07:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows review ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Whistler review. (Black Dragon)
Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks. (SwifT -)
Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks. (SwifT -)
Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks. (SwifT -)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:07:15 GMT
Steve Mading writes:
>>> I suggest you pay attention to what we are saying.
>> How ironic, coming from the person who hasn't been paying attention
>> to what others have been saying. You did, after all, accuse Aaron
>> of having claimed that nothing is intuitive.
> Stop pretending I didn't already answer this.
Stop pretending that it isn't your problem. You repeated the same
sort of error when you accused me of saying that "hjkl isn't intuitive".
>>> We aren't talking about someone repeating the *same* command, but
>>> someone coming up with a NEW command that is built by putting
>>> together previously known information - as with this d/foo
>>> example. It could be intuitive to someone who had NEVER done
>>> it before but HAD done other d-something commands, and had
>>> done other /something searches.
>> Ah, so something about a computer could be intuitive, contrary to
>> Aaron's claim. Gee, sounds like you just agreed with me. Yet for
>> some peculiar reason, you are spending all this time arguing with
>> me rather than Aaron. Most interesting.
> Because you aren't consistent.
Where haven't I been consistent?
> You claim you think intuitiveness is all relative,
Very good, Steve.
> but then don't act like it.
Where have I allegedly acted otherwise, Steve?
>>> No, it's already clear you like taking statements out of context.
>> Which statement did I allegedly take out of context, Steve? No,
>> it's already clear you like pontificating.
> Pot. Kettle. Black.
Still no evidence. No surprise there.
> Stop projecting.
Stop pontificating.
>>> It was blatantly obvious he meant that Vi lets you use stuff you
>>> learned *about Vi* in new ways.
>> It's also blatantly obvious that the issue was not internal consistency,
>> which is what you are describing here.
Note: no response.
>>>>>> I see you missed my point.
>>>>> I did as well.
>>>> Glad you agree.
>>> It's easy to miss points that are unstated, or not there.
>> It's easy to miss points that are not comprehended.
> It's impossible to comprehend points that are not stated.
Irrelevant, given that my points have been stated, Steve.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Windows review
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:10:25 +0200
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:ylZZ5.43380$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9178r1$j04$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > > The reason for having a menu at all (if there is one), should be for
> > access
> > > to the things you don't use often enough to remember, shouldn't it?
> >
> > Yes, and it would work.
> > I, personally, use the start menu only for infrequent programs, things I
> > only use once or twice a week, everything else is mapped to shortcuts or
> on
> > the quick launch menus.
> > I find myself working mainly with a set of less then 10 programs
regulary,
> > so it's convient to do so.
> > I also has the start>programs ordered in multiply folders, so if I want
to
> > open Flash, which I use rarely, I go to
> > Start>Programs>Graphics>Internet>Flash
> > You might find it best to use a double-size task bar, like this:
> >
> > ________________________________
> > | quick launch menu all across the task bar|
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > |Start| The task bar itself |
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >
> > This way you've a long bar of programs which are easily accessible,
> > depending on your resulotion, it may take between 10 to 50 + programs.
> Less
> > if you need text descriptions to recognize them, but you wouldn't for
> > frequently accessible programs.
>
> The thing I like best is what happens in KDE if you drag a folder from
> the desktop to the task bar. It turns into a pop-up list that is much
> easier to access than having to open the folder on the desktop. The only
> thing I've seen in windows that resembles it is the overflow of the
> quick launch area but I want several different ones there.
Define several shortcut bars, then, and place the content of the folder
there, with the size of the bar as small as you can have, this way you'll
get the same result.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:11:52 +0200
"Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:a3ZZ5.16358$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > It suprises me that all you OSS and GPL developers (the distinction is
> > > really lost on me) really like the fact that you are making large
> > > corporations tons of money on the cuff. IBM, Sun, Corel et. al. must
be
> > > laughing all the way to the bank. Will you please explain why you
wish
> to
> > > give away the sweat of your brow?
> >
> > Well, these corporations are also giving a lot back to the open source
> > community. IBM has open sourced AFS and JFS, for example.
> >
> > Gary
>
> But didn't Sun promise worlds of support to the Linux community. Cross
> platform Apps IIRC. They made Solaris run Linux stuff but aren't you
still
> waiting for the Solaris packages for Linux?
Here is a thought, when Linux would be able to run Solaris applications, you
can get IE to Linux.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:19:10 GMT
Russ Lyttle writes:
>>>>>>>>>> Steve Mading writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not exactly uncommon. When my VCR is "off", it's still on by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough to keep a clock running and monitor its programming to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determine whether to turn "on" (or should I say "more on") and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> record a program. Doesn't make the power switch any less
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intuitive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, I would say that that sort of power switch is highly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unintuitive. Intuitively, you'd expect that turning something
>>>>>>>>>>>>> off would, you know, actually turn it off.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Depends on what you consider "off" to be. When you turn your
>>>>>>>>>>>> microwave oven off, do you expect it to lose the time? (Yes,
>>>>>>>>>>>> that does presuppose an oven with a clock on the display.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there any new models that don't have one of those built in?)
>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen any microwaves with an on/off button lately.
>>>>>>>>>> Okay then, "Start/Stop", if you must be pedantic.
>>>>>>>>>>> If they had them, then yeah, I'd expect them to at least turn
>>>>>>>>>>> the display off, and go down to a trickle that only serves
>>>>>>>>>>> to maintain a few K of RAM (for the clock and maybe some programs)
>>>>>>>>>>> (which takes very little power, as evidenced by calculators and
>>>>>>>>>>> watches, and could be done by battery like it is for CMOS
>>>>>>>>>>> settings on computers.)
>>>>>>>>>> Even with the display on, it could still be a trickle.
>>>>>>>>> All this "unintuitive" behavior of power switches is causing a major
>>>>>>>>> problem in California.
>>>>>>>> Illogical. It is quite possible that people will generally know what
>>>>>>>> to do with a power switch without needing to consult a manual, but will
>>>>>>>> not generally know how much power is consumed in the on and off states.
>>>>>>>> Consider the AC adaptor for a modem, for example. The power switch is
>>>>>>>> on the modem, not the AC adaptor.
>>>>>>> Logical. The behavior of the power switch changed from its traditional
>>>>>>> role. People *think* it still works the way it did 10 years ago.
>>>>>> Oh really? Your Curtis Mathes is older than that. You claim it kept
>>>>>> the power on.
>>>>> Yes, but it was very unusual for its time.
>>>> Really? I had a clock-radio that when "off" kept the clock on. Very usual
>>>> for its time.
>> Note: no response.
Note: still no response.
>>>>>>> Its behavior isn't capable of being comprehended without logical thought.
>>>>>> And with logical thought, the average consumer will know how much power
>>>>>> is still being consumed by a unit even when the switch is in the off
>>>>>> position? That's not the issue here.
>>>>>>> (See definition of intuitive).
>>>>>> Practice what you preach.
>>>>>>> They are still trying to make decisions
>>>>>>> based on the traditional use of the power switch - power cord setup.
>>>>>> On the contrary, sounds like your example involves a mislabeled
>>>>>> button. There is a difference between "video blank" and "power off".
>>>>>> You've described the former. I've been talking about the latter.
>>>>> No, they concern the device that serves as a power switch these days.
>>>> An "off" switch that leaves 10 amps of power running isn't much of an
>>>> off switch.
>> Note: no response.
Note: still no response.
>>>>>>>>> The issue of all these devices still drawing power is keeping a
>>>>>>>>> load on the system that it wasn't designed to handle.
>>>>>>>> Are you suggesting that systems outside of California were somehow
>>>>>>>> designed to handle it?
>>>>>>> No. Outside CA, NY, and MA, there have been more plants built. These
>>>>>>> plants are now selling some of their excess off peak power to CA. In the
>>>>>>> past CA would sell power to Texas during the peak time in Texas and
>>>>>>> Texas would sell to CA during the peak time there. Now the transfer is
>>>>>>> all one way. To CA. But it is getting difficult for Texas utilities to
>>>>>>> justify building more plants just to have power to sell to CA. They have
>>>>>>> to justify the need for plants based on need in Texas.
>>>>>> That has nothing to do with being designed to handle the load.
>>>>>>>>> That coupled with lack of new power generation in California is putting
>>>>>>>>> a strain on the system now, promising a major breakdown in the near
>>>>>>>>> future.
>>>>>>>> Sounds like those Californians are going to have to do without their
>>>>>>>> 72-inch projection televisions. (Did your Curtis Mathes need 10 amps
>>>>>>>> to keep its filament going?)
>>>>>> Note: no response.
>>>>>>>>> Relying to much on intuition and not enough on reason is going
>>>>>>>>> to get a lot of people killed.
>>>>>>>> The power consumed by a device in the off state has absolutely
>>>>>>>> nothing to do with the issue of whether the power switch itself
>>>>>>>> is intuitive.
>>>>>> Note: no response.
>>>>> OK, what is your intuitive concept of the operation of a power switch?
>>>> One position is "on" and the other position is "off".
>>> The switch marked "on" and "off" on my 1903A4 Springfield is a Power
>>> Switch?
>> Show me your 1903A4 Springfield.
> Next time you are in Arizona, give me a call.
What's your number? I usually get to Arizona at least once a year. It's
a big state, however. Don't expect me to look you up in Yuma.
>>> Not all switches marked thus perform the same functions or
>>> perform the same functions the same way!
>> Irrelevant, given that I didn't say they do.
> Looking at your post you definately said your concept of a power switch
> has "One position is "on" and the other position is "off"."
Yet you illogically turned that around and tried to make it sound like
every switch with an "on" and an "off" must be a power switch.
> So if that isn't your concept of a power switch, what is?
Something that changes the state of the power applied to a device:
power on, power off. That doesn't mean every switch with an "on"
and an "off" is a power swtich. That's just plain illogical.
> And why did you say it was your concept of a power switch?
Because you asked me about my concept of a power switch.
> why won't my computer fire 30-06 rounds from the magazine when
> the power switch is in the "on" position.
You're erroneously presupposing that your computer has a magazine
from which it might be able to fire rounds.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:19:47 GMT
Marty writes:
> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>> When you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
>> remember to slit lengthwise.
>>
>> Or maybe you can offer yourself to one of the local Hawaiian volcano gods.
> No need to anger them.
Superstitious, Marty?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Black Dragon)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:59:28 GMT
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 01:57:35 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> `Chad C. Mulligan' said:
:
: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
: news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
: > On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 02:27:59 GMT, Chad C. Mulligan
: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: > >
: > >"Gary Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
: > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
: > >> "Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
: > >> >
: > >>
: > >> > Since my own experiences do in fact coincide with TPC results and do
: > >> > contradict Netcraft results and do contradict your reported
: experience I
: > >> > must conclude that you do not understand the operating system and
: > >therefore
: > >> > have introduced the instabilities yourself. NOTE: I've done that
: > >myself on
: > >> > test systems to find the breaking points but I don't do that on
: > >production
: > >> > systems.
: > >> >
: > >>
: > >> Fascinating.
: > >> I've always wondered about this type of reasoning and how it works.
: > >> Blaming the user of the computer for it's problems.
: > >>
: > >> A well done OS, regardless of user, doesn't crash. End of story. Just
: > >> because Win2K allows the user to change the configuration in such a way
: > >> that the system will become unstable, does NOT mean it's the users
: > >> fault. It means the OS is unreliable. Especially since you need to be
: > >> "trained" and "skilled" in it's management. Which usually is double
: > >> talk for you have to be "l33t". If I have to go out of my way to learn
: > >> a large volume of information that not only pertains to the setup and
: > >> security of the OS, but also covers which applications are "good" and
: > >> what order to install updates to keep an OS running, then the OS is NOT
: > >> worth my time.
: > >>
: > >
: > >1. Were talking about servers not workstations.
: > >2. Eunuchs users are just as capable of destroying systems.
: >
: > ...not unless they know how to crack the root account.
: >
:
: Or some eunuch administrator set the user id bit to root on a damageing
: script or program. Or they simply fill up swap with crap.
Don't know much about Unix, do ya'?
:
: > [deletia]
: >
: > --
: >
: > Freedom != Anarchy.
: >
: > Some must be "opressed" in order for their
: > actions not to oppress the rest of us.
: >
: > |||
: > / | \
:
:
--
Black Dragon
Sign The Linux Driver Petition:
http://www.libralinux.com/petition.english.html
------------------------------
From: SwifT - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks.
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:19:52 +0100
On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Kyle Jacobs wrote:
> Really? If the USB layer in Linux actually WORKED, maybe companies who make
> drivers multi-platform wouldn't be so dead-set against wasting their time
> writing drivers for a platform that literaly CAN'T support them?
Why do you think it doesn't work? Ain't there enough postings from people
who have their USB-devices working under Linux?
--
SwifT
------------------------------
From: SwifT - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks.
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:18:14 +0100
On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Swangoremovemee wrote:
> If that person has a lot of money invested in hardware, like a
> pre-load for example, they are not going to re-purchase hardware just
> for the joy of running Linux unless they have a very specific reason
> to do so.
I know a lot of people who bought another modem because there winmodem
wasn't supported. And they didn't even think about stepping into the
winworld again...
> And that, considering the dismal amount of quality desktop
> applications available for Linux, is not going to happen.
It's the quality that counts, not the amount.
--
SwifT
------------------------------
From: SwifT - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks.
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:21:38 +0100
On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Kyle Jacobs wrote:
> Got a point, StarOffice is NOT Microsoft office by a long shot.
And why should I be disappointed by that?
> KDE2 is still lacking in unifying administration features, even though the
> interface is more intuitave, and it's STILL not truely integrated with the
> OS.
When KDE integrates with the OS, I'll stop using it. It's an interface,
not a part of an operating system.
--
SwifT
------------------------------
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