Linux-Advocacy Digest #981, Volume #30 Tue, 19 Dec 00 20:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: i LOVE this- the auther is a genius ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: IBM 1 billion dollar deal - Linux! (Jim Lewis)
Re: Pb with RealTek LAN Adapter ("Nicolas VIGOGNE")
Re: Windows - Is It Really Easier to Use? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: System's analysis? What does this person do ? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: The real power of Linux (cry Winbabies cry!) (Jim Lewis)
Re: Intel Easy PC camera - cannot be supported in Linux! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Russ Lyttle)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: i LOVE this- the auther is a genius
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:00:41 GMT
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:91o6tn$925$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> Do you know how much it costs to charter two dozen cargo planes per
year?
> >>
> >> Running costs are very expensive.
>
> > 747 cost about 150 millions.
>
> Alright look, im nearly finished being patient with you. You obviously
have
> no experience at all with working for philanthropic organizations, and
have
> no idea how money works.
>
Actually the issue was how much Gates paid. It was billions how it was used
by those he gave it to is irrelevent.
> I said CHARTER. Theres no reason for anyone to buy any goddamn airplanes,
> theyre FAR too expensive.
>
> And each one of those planes would cost millions per year to maintain.
>
> EACH ONE.
>
> > 2 dozens would then cost 3.6 billions as one time investment, plus cost
of
> > maintaining them, which I've no clue about, but has to be far lower than
150
> > millions per year per plane.
> > But you wouldn't buy them, you only charter them, which lower the cost
> > considerably.
>
> Duh.
>
> > But I doubt that they use 747 to begin with, or that they use 24 747
> > 24/7/365, so no, I see *no* reason that billions would vanish.
>
> Because youre an idiot. They use whatever is available. There are
THOUSANDS
> of other costs involved.
>
> > Beside, even assuming that they had to spend 3.6 billions on the planes
> > every year, that is still part of what BG donated.
>
> No, idiot, its part of what the total of the organizations that hes
involved
> in are WORTH. You are talking about a very, very different number.
>
> > IMO, that money is still
> > part of the donation, because it part of what needed to give the target
what
> > it needed, which would've to be paid *anyway*.
>
> You have no idea what youre talking about at all.
>
>
>
>
> -----.
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Lewis)
Subject: Re: IBM 1 billion dollar deal - Linux!
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:00:55 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Allow me to clarify EF's comments.
>>
>> See, EF believes Microsoft has a running embedded product,
>NT Embedded has been released for almost 2 years. It is a running product,
>and one of my clients is in fact using it in one of their laser CNC
>products.
>> that Microsofts TCO is actually acceptable, and that
>If it wasn't, why would people use it? Acceptable means people accept it.
>Correct?
>> the majority of Windows developers using GCC to produce
>> Windows development.
>Don't exagerate to prove a point. I never said any such thing and you know
>it. You have just now graduated from being clueless to being an intentional
>liar.
>> So, as you can audit, EF is in his own little world out
>> there.
>Fuck off dipshit.
Wonderful. Very impressive. But then, you give others little reason
to expect much.
------------------------------
From: "Nicolas VIGOGNE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Pb with RealTek LAN Adapter
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:06:28 +0100
I use ne2k-pci as an external module. And it is loaded...!
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message :
91nua2$u55$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> In article <91nplr$4v6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Nicolas VIGOGNE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I just want to submit you a little problem :
> > I can't ping any host on my LAN with a RealTek 8029 adapter under
> Mandrake
> > 7.2.
>
> What driver are you using? Is it compiled into the kernel or a module?
>
> >
> > Here are the symptoms : configuration is OK through netconf or
> DrakConf. But
> > when I try to type an "ifconfig eth0 xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx ...", system
> replies
> > "Ressource temporary Unavailable".
> >
> > I can ping myself, but I can't see any other Win98 hosts with fixed
> > adresses.
> >
> > What's the matter ?
> >
> > Nicolas
> >
> >
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows - Is It Really Easier to Use?
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:11:09 -0500
by wrote:
>
> Yes, windows is easier to learn and use. You're getting lots of windows
> support calls because:
Wrong. Windows is easier to achieve novice proficiency.
However, very few computer-users stop using computers after 2 months.
Therefore, building a system designed for brand-new users at the
expense of experienced users is doltish. This would be like
restricting our language to a few ughs and moans because that's
all the better 4-month old infants can do.
>
> 1. there're more windows users out there
>
> 2. your average linux users are more tech savvy than your average windows
> users.
>
> "Bracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:EhF%5.16475$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Is Windows really easier to use than Linux?
> >
> > I recently responded in the "I conceded" thread that, in a
> > Windows-dominated world, it is only wise to keep one's skills current in
> > the Windows environment, because you never know when you might find
> > yourself in the job market again. I then received a reply from Aaron
> > Kulkis, asking: "Exactly how hard is it to keep up your "point and click"
> > skills?"
> >
> > I then immediately began to write a very angry response to Mr. Kulkis,
> > but then I took a deep breath and calmed down a bit, thinking "Maybe he's
> > just ignorant about what is required to support Windows?" After all,
> > we're both Linux advocates, and we're both fighting the same battle. No
> > need to exchange "friendly fire."
> >
> > The WinTrolls would have us all believe that Windows is easier-to-use
> > than Linux, and evidently Mr. Kulkis agrees with them. But is it really
> > so? Is Windows easier-to-use than Linux? And if so, does that mean it is
> > easier to support?
> >
> > I've worked in the Tech Support/Network Administration arena for several
> > years for such companies as Dell, IBM, and Unisys, and I can tell you
> > first-hand that the phones never stop ringing for technical support. At
> > one of these companies, never a day went by that we weren't asked to
> > work through lunch, and work overtime because of the number of calls we
> > were receiving. If Windows is so easy-to-use, why is this case?
> >
> > Perhaps Mr. Kulkis and the WinTrolls have never configured multiple RAID
> > containers before installing Windows NT and then had Windows NT report a
> > single 1 Gb partition available for installation?
> >
> > Perhaps Mr. Kulkis and the WinTrolls have never installed an Adaptec 7890
> > SCSI controller in their server, and then had Windows NT report no
> > available partitions during installation?
> >
> > Perhaps Mr. Kulkis and the WinTrolls have never spoken with a customer
> > who corrupted their video drivers by installing PCAnywhere on their
> > server?
> >
> > Perhaps Mr. Kulkis and the WinTrolls have never installed Windows NT
> > with 2 or more NICs in the server?
> >
> > Perhaps Mr. Kulkis and the WinTrolls have never spoken to a customer who
> > decided to move Microsoft Office from the C: drive to their D: drive
> > because their C: drive had run out of disk space? (I guarantee it's
> > easier to move software from one partition to another in Linux than it is
> > in Windows).
> >
> > Perhaps Mr. Kulkis and the WinTrolls have never had to support any
> > software that was produced by a Microsoft competitor?
> >
> > During the last decade, I've never once met a Macintosh user who did
> > not know how to copy a file to their floppy drive, but I've spoken to
> > Windows users who did not know how on a daily basis.
> >
> > I've found that solving a problem in Linux is generally much easier and
> > straightforward than it is in Windows. It's much easier to edit a text
> > file than it is to edit the Windows Registry. Try calling tech support
> > and telling them that you edited your Registry, and then see how much
> > tech support you receive.
> >
> >
> > I contend that Linux is NOT more difficult than Windows, it is just
> > different. To move from Windows to Linux, one must re-learn
> > *everything.* One must learn a new architecture, new installation
> > procedure, new bootup sequence, new command-line interface, new
> > GUI interface, new programming tools, new applications -- everything.
> > But that doesn't mean that it's more difficult.
> >
> > Troubleshooting a problem on a Linux system is, IMHO, generally
> > much easier and swifter than troubleshooting a problem in Windows.
> >
> > Bracy
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: System's analysis? What does this person do ?
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:14:49 -0500
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:24:07 -0500
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> [snip discussion regarding "system manager" for brevity]
>
> >> All this IMO, of course; I'm neither a manager nor a systems analyst.
> >> But if you're job hunting, that's probably a good job to get into
> >> if you meet the requirements.
> >
> >Of course, right now, he's in the "if you have to ask, you're not
> >qualified" stage...
>
> There is that, admittedly. I'm not sure *I'm* qualified, despite
> being a top-notch computer guru (language lawyer and toolsmith,
> actually).
>
With all of my background (computing since 1980...oh my gosh, that's
20 year now..ACK!)...i still wouldn't consider myself qualified
as a Systems Analyst. Of course, it's mostly because I haven't done
any heavy-duty programming since my Purdue days.
> [snip]
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> up 85 days, 6:10, running Linux.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Lewis)
Subject: Re: The real power of Linux (cry Winbabies cry!)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:17:57 GMT
Matthew Soltysiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snip>
>Awww, so i don't make it in to your little life?? that's too bad. stick with
>reality, dude.
>--
>Matthew Soltysiak
>Comp Sci/Soft Eng
>ICQ: 3063118
Wow. How long have you been off the meds?
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Intel Easy PC camera - cannot be supported in Linux!
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:17:14 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >On Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:35:51 -0500, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >In this case the end result is taking pictures with a camera.
> >Windows can utilize the hardware, and as usual Linux can't.
>
> Hmm, that sounds strangely familiar. Only the roles were reversed.
> The ultra-cheap package of CMOS video camera and BT848-based capture card
> I bought earlier this year never worked under Windows. Just wouldn't.
> No go.
> Good thing I didn't want to use it under Windows, anyway. It runs perfectly
> under linux, once a bit of trial and error had determined which card type
> I had to give the driver. You'd think that the Windows driver on the
> CD that came with it would get it right, but no, apparently not. And it,
> of course, doesn't take any parameters.
>
> Does this mean that Windows is an "inferior OS"? I don't think so --- it
> just means that this particular piece of junk is not supported by Windows,
> despite claims to the contrary on the package. No more, and no less.
>
> >Linux doesn't work for quite a lot of people and that is why it is
> >virtually non-existant on the desktop of home users and will continue
> >to stay that way.
>
> I recently decided that I needed to install a slightly more up-to-date
> distribution on one of my machines (people had been sending me bug reports
> about some software of mine, and they seemed libc related). So I got
> Mandrake 7.2 at the local swapmeet.
> If I ever have a Windows installation that goes that smoothly, I shall
> mark the day in my calendar with a big red circle. But don't hold your
> breath.
>
> While I was at it, I decided to also give the machine a performance boost,
> and replaced the aging Celeron400 on a BP6 with a Duron running at 950MHz,
> on a Soyo board. Then I put the Windows drive back onto the EIDE controller.
> Oh my! It discovered lots and lots of new hardware (most of which wasn't
> really all that new), but I expected that. What I didn't expect was the
> total fit it threw over networking. OK, I got two ethernet cards in the
> machine, but that certainly isn't *that* unusual. And it certainly isn't
> an excuse for filling the routing table with half a dozen routes that
> connect to interfaces I don't have, and the addresses for which appear
> pretty much random. And not letting me delete those routes is extra naughty.
> I ended up reinstalling from scratch, after trying to convince the stupid
> thing in many ways that 169.254.114.118 (or something along those lines)
> was not one of my interfaces, or at least that 192.168.243.32 *is* one
> of them.
>
> Does that mean Windows is inferior to Mandrake 7.2? I don't think so.
> It just isn't very good at dealing with changing hardware. It isn't
> very good at a whole lot of things, just like Linux. And it's quite
> good at some others, just like Linux. And all the anecdotal evidence
> in the world won't change that.
>
> Bernie
>
> P.S.: Welcome back, heather69. I suspect you will regale us with stories
> about your retail experience in "major chainstores", and how
> Linux is the "numero uno" returned item, right? What will your
> relation to the manager be this time? Will she be your aunt? Your
> daughter? Your brother's wife?
You left out her other telltale line: "windows rocks"
> --
> How you, rebellious Germany, laid your wretched head beneath the
> feet of the great general
> Ovid
> Roman poet, 43 BC -- AD 17
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Russ Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:02:02 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Russ Lyttle wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > >
> > > Russ Lyttle wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Steve Mading wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > In comp.os.linux.advocacy Bruce Ediger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > : The arrow keys went left arrow/up arrow/down arrow/right arrow.
> > > > > : Exactly the motions that the h, j, k and l commands perform in "vi".
> > > > > : I assumed that Bill Joy (or whoever) put in hjkl because of familiarity
> > > > > : with VT-100 arrow keys.
> > > > >
> > > > > The story I'd heard is that Bill Joy's terminal actually had
> > > > > little arrows drawn on the keycaps right on the hjkl keys, and so
> > > > > that's what he used. The fact that this was fast because it was
> > > > > under the right hand (well, shifted off by one key) was not a planned
> > > > > benefit. It was sort of accidental.
> > > > Why were the arrows drawn on his keycaps?
> > >
> > > Part of the factory production, in fact.
> > >
> > I can understand that. But factory production does not take an extra
> > step for no reason. I think that those conventions were already
> > established much longer ago. Anyone have a layout of older keyboards
> > from back in Teletype days? When ESC and CTRL meant something? I've lost
> > my references on those during one of my moves. I don't use VI much, but
> > I thought its conventions were based on a much older tradition.
>
> As I remember, it's a traditional IBM Selectric layout, with CTRL in
> place of the caps lock, and Escape on the far left end of the top row.
>
I just looked at my old Selectric. The VI commands are much easier on it
than on my PC keyboards. But I don't think that is it. However, do you
remember the fuss when IBM came out with the PC keyboard instead of the
Selectric layout? The PC keyboard is much less ergonomic than the
Selectric keyboard. Especially the Windows variant. Anyone out there
make a Selectric style keyboard for PCs?
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
--
Russ Lyttle, PE
<http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
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