Linux-Advocacy Digest #91, Volume #31 Thu, 28 Dec 00 05:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Thanks from a newbie ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Could only... (eXistenZ)
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? ("David T. Johnson")
Re: Please don't laugh. (eXistenZ)
PPP over serial line (w/ Win98 and Linux) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Thanks from a newbie ("Adam Warner")
Re: Windows 2000 (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Windows 2000 (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why Advocacy? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why Advocacy? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why Advocacy? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: This group should rename itself (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why Advocacy? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? (Bob Eager)
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? (Bob Eager)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Thanks from a newbie
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 08:03:05 GMT
In article <92ebna$1tu$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi lectron,
>
> > I have been playing with various distributions for a while and was
not
> > too happy with most of them. Today I picked up a copy of Red Hat 7.
> > Forty minutes from starting the install on a cold machine to posting
> > here. I am very impressed with the improvements to the install
process.
>
> That's great news. Remember to download and install all the security
updates
> (if you're not using Redhat's free-for-a-limited-time service).
>
> http://www.redhat.com/support/errata/
>
> I find the best way is to find a good mirror and download all the
updates
> out of the i386 subdirectory (you may also want to check the i686
> subdirectory if your CPU supports it).
>
> You then just type:
>
> rpm -Fvh *.rpm
>
> in the directory you have downloaded the updates. This command only
> "freshens" existingly installed software and won't install software
that
> isn't already installed.
>
> Here's a mirror list of update sites:
>
> http://www.redhat.com/download/mirror.html
>
> Here's example URLs to download the updates from:
>
> ftp://ftp.codemeta.com/pub/mirrors/redhat/updates/7.0/i386/
> ftp://ftp.codemeta.com/pub/mirrors/redhat/updates/7.0/i686/
>
> Regards,
> Adam
>
>
Thanks Adam,
As a newbie these things about security are good to know but for the
moment but I am just trying to understand the system and the fine
details of the security are a bit ahead of me. The machine I am running
on is a very basic machine and is a learning machine. Basically it is a
disposable machine and if I get caught bye a cracker it will be just a
lesson. I have saved your response and when I get to set this up as a
final system I will review what you have sent very carefully.
Thanks,
Dennis
--
When you shoot at the messenger you are admitting
that you have lost the argument.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: eXistenZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Could only...
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 08:10:35 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
> This just goes to show you how gun control can make us all
> less secure, had everyone in the office been carrying a firearm,
> the guy would have been terminated before he had a chance to do
> much damage.
>
Yes, this is the typical American way of seeing things, isn't it? Far
West days are over, in case you didn't notice....
Marcello Barboni
Italy
--
After three days in the desert fun
I was looking at a river bed
And the story it told of a river that flowed
Made me sad to think it was dead
------------------------------
From: "David T. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:17:15 -0500
Jason Bowen wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> David T. Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Jason Bowen wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >IMO, a file system that fragments as NTFS does is not good enough to be
> >> >a contestant for the "best" contest. The most important "feature" of a
> >> >file system is its ability to accurately and reliably store your data on
> >> >your disk volume. I think that NTFS is missing this "feature" in
> >> >comparison with HPFS. I have not said NTFS does not work. Of course it
> >> >works or Microsoft could not have shipped it with Windows 2000. FAT16
> >> >and FAT32 also work. But the design of NTFS is flawed such that your
> >> >data can become fragmented into multiple extents that can be scattered
> >> >around the disk. Even worse, the NTFS design uses a master file table
> >> >to keep track of the data. Much worse even that that, the master file
> >> >table can itself become fragmented. Every time an NTFS volume becomes
> >> >damaged/unrecoverable or every time a hard disk fails, ask yourself:
> >> >'Would that have happened with HPFS?' I would answer that question with
> >> >'NO.'
> >>
> >> Another user spouting opinion without any real knowledge behind them.
> >> They think so therefore it is.
> >
> >Typical Jason Bowen invective.
>
> Not invective, it's the truth.
>
> >
> >> I'd like to hear about your usage patterns
> >> and how fragmentation, or the lack thereof, affects the performance of
> >> your computer. I see lots of people in this group talking about OS/2 vs
> >> whatever but amazingly they have little knowledge of whatever. They
> >> really don't know much about OS/2 either. They can reproduce links but do
> >> they understand what the link says?
> >
> >My personal experience with HPFS is that it does not become fragmented.
> >Fragmentation does occur on NTFS volumes and this fragmentation on NTFS
> >volumes can significantly slow system speed. Below are excerpts from a
> >recent story on this subject entitled "Data defragmenting hailed."
> >Excerpts:
> >
>
> You have no experience of relevance with NT or any other operating system
> correct?
I think you mean "file system," not "operating system" since file
systems are what we have actually been talking about. I have experience
with FAT, FAT32, NTFS 4, NTFS 5, HPFS, and JFS(in progress).
>
> >"...the impact from service delays caused by systems handicapped by
> >fragmented disk drives could reach as high as $50 billion..."
> >
> >"...data collected on the drives begins to fragment with each operation,
> >gradually robbing the overall network of valuable performance..."
> >
> >""We were running [Windows NT-based] severs and workstations and they
> >all got to be very slow, so I thought about upgrading all the
> >equipment," Grandstaff said."
> >
> >"According to Grandstaff, an increase in performance was immediately
> >noticeable, and Cooper & Company now runs a daily defragmentation
> >routine..."
> >
> >http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/00/07/06/000706hnfragment.xml
>
> Nothing of your own, well noted.
I can cheerfully confirm for you based on my personal observations that
FAT, FAT32, NTFS 4, and NTFS 5 volumes can all become fragmented and
that performance seems to improve when the volumes are defragmented.
------------------------------
From: eXistenZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Please don't laugh.
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 08:15:45 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> I'd like to look at Linux butthe only pc I can play with it on is a 25
> Mhz 486 with 4 meg of RAM and a 170 meg hard drive. Is there a free
> version of Linux that'll work on this and where can I find it?
>
> TIA
>
>
>
I succesfully built a gateway/router using a 486 (no pci - only
ISA/VESA) with 16 mb ram and a bigger hd, using SuSE 6.4 standard
installation. I'm using it right now.
If you can cough up a few more megs of RAM you should be ok. No X
though....
--
After three days in the desert fun
I was looking at a river bed
And the story it told of a river that flowed
Made me sad to think it was dead
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: PPP over serial line (w/ Win98 and Linux)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 08:08:16 GMT
Hi all,
I got a cheap laptop recently (running Win98) and I am
trying to let it access the network. My server is a
RedHat Linux 7 box. The ethernet card is just too
expensive for the cheap laptop so I am trying to
connect 2 computers with a serial cable. I followed
some doc on the web and got getty working on my linux
box. With pppd and a chat script, I also "fooled" the
Win98 box that it's dialled a number and connected to
a dialup server successfully. However, pppd doesn't
run successfully during the login; it complains that
"Could not determine local IP address"...
<headache...help...>
Here is debug message the /var/log/messages:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dec 25 14:22:07 dookie pppd[1909]: pppd 2.3.11 started
by root, uid 0
Dec 25 14:22:07 dookie chat[1910]: expect (AT)
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: AT
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: -- got it
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: send (OK^M)
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: expect (ATE0V1)
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: ^MATE0V1
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: -- got it
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: send (OK^M)
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: expect (AT)
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: ^MAT
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: -- got it
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: send (OK^M)
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: expect (AT)
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: ^MAT
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: -- got it
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie chat[1910]: send (CONNECT^M)
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie pppd[1909]: Serial connection
established.
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie pppd[1909]: Using interface
ppp1
Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie pppd[1909]: Connect: ppp1 <-->
/dev/ttyS0
Dec 25 14:22:16 dookie pppd[1909]: Could not determine
local IP address
Dec 25 14:22:16 dookie pppd[1909]: Connection
terminated.
Dec 25 14:22:16 dookie pppd[1909]: Connect time 0.2
minutes.
Dec 25 14:22:16 dookie pppd[1909]: Sent 304 bytes,
received 353 bytes.
Dec 25 14:22:16 dookie pppd[1909]: Exit.
And the following is my ppp options file:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-detach
crtscts
lock
asyncmap 0
proxyarp
noccp
192.168.1.1:192.168.1.5
/dev/ttyS0 115200
ipcp-accept-local
netmask 255.255.255.0
connect '/usr/sbin/chat -v AT OK ATE0V1 OK AT OK AT
CONNECT'
modem
Have any of you ever got PPP to run successfully over
a serial cable? This is really a headache for me...
Sorry for bothering you in Christmas!!! I really
appreciate your help... Thanks in advance...
Regards,
Brian
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Thanks from a newbie
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:59:33 +1200
Hi lectron,
> As a newbie these things about security are good to know but for the
> moment but I am just trying to understand the system and the fine
> details of the security are a bit ahead of me. The machine I am running
> on is a very basic machine and is a learning machine. Basically it is a
> disposable machine and if I get caught bye a cracker it will be just a
> lesson. I have saved your response and when I get to set this up as a
> final system I will review what you have sent very carefully.
OK. But also realise that there are quite a few bugs in RH7.0 that the
updates address. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was only talking
about security updates.
Have fun,
Adam
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:43:08 +0000
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> Is there some reason, other than theological, for holding up
> the ever-changing MS-WORD file format as if it were superior
> to all others?
Who's talking about file formats? I'm talking about the applications.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:44:04 +0000
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> Really? Tell that to Office97 users who recieve Office2000 documents.
>
> You know....just like when Office 6.0 users recieved Office97 documents
>
> And when Word5.0 users recieved Word6.0 documents.
>
>
> There's a reason I call it LOSEdows.
You call Word Windows?
No wonder you haven't got a clue!
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Advocacy?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:44:54 +0000
Gary Hallock wrote:
> As of KDE 2, you can now drag and drop between KDE and Gnome apps.
And MOTIF and all the others?
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Advocacy?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:48:50 +0000
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> Learning "S for Start/K for Kill + sequence number" is sooooo difficult.
>
> Maybe we should get you a Talking Barbie.
>
> "Math class is too hard!"
Still having trouble with your signal to noise ratio I see.
S and K are easy. But, what about the sequence number? What should it be?
00 or 99? How can I tell? Which one should run before another? Oh, so I go
look it up in the manual, it really is that obvious!
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Advocacy?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:50:15 +0000
Gary Hallock wrote:
> The problem with a startup script is that it must be modified by each
> program
> being installed or removed. Using separate scripts for each program
> with symbolic links makes it less likely that things will get screwed up
> as changes are made.
Yes I know, that's why VMS switched to a database for startup/shutdown.
That way applications could choose where they get started/stopped and if
they depended on others.
Funny, that's the model for Services in NT. There's a database.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: This group should rename itself
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:54:39 +0000
Yatima wrote:
> I don't think he's interested in limiting your choice. Rather, it's
> interesting that you would voluntarily choose to use a platform that
> "lags behind" windows. I also dual boot because, for now, windows is the
> better option for most games and for DVDs (unless you're willing to use
> DeCSS).
I like KNode, the newsreader; also my system doesn't hang like it does with
Windows.
> So, I think the question is "Is there anything that you *like* about
> linux?" If you find that just tinkering with the system and trying out
> new things is fun, that's cool. Also, if you think it is a good low cost
> alternative or if you think that linux knowledge will benefit you at
> some point in the future, that's great too.
I'm not that interested in tinkering. However, the Great Shaitan is talking
about a dumb model for pricing of their products. If they chose to force
subscriptions on Windows, then I may just dump Windows in the future.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Why Advocacy?
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:05:12 GMT
Linux is based on Unix - a 30-year-old operating system. And it shows
it's age:
It uses liberally formatted text files for its configuration. This is
incredible inefficient - computers don't understand text files - they
much prefer binary files. Consider the CPU cycles required search a
file such as /etc/passwd as opposed to say an equivalent indexed
Oracle table.
The permissions available for files are archaic. This is highlighted
when you try to use nfs in a networked environment where many
different users and groups have different levels of access to a shared
resource. This is also emphasized by the use of the '.' to indicate a
hidden file and the lack of an archive bit which hinders backup
options.
Unix does not by default encrypt incoming and outgoing data to and
from a network. There should be security alerts issued daily for
systems running nfs, ftp or telnet daemons.
There is a tremendous amount of legacy within a Unix system. This is
due more or less to the open nature of the system that prevents the
distributor of the OS making a major cleanup of the system. The
result of this is a large number of symbolic links within the file
system.
The strength of Unix has always been its shell scripting language
combined with tools such as awk, sed, grep, egrep, etc. However I
notice that with the advent of languages such as Perl and Java people
are beginning to abandon these. Perl and Java can and have been
implemented on OS's other than Unix.
On Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:37:49 -0500, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>What is the point of Advocacy?
>
>When I advocate Linux, it is for a number of reasons:
>
>(1) Promote wider usage of the OS.
>This has a number of benefits, more users means that it is likely that
>more OEMs will support Linux directly and that "OS choice" will be
>accepted.
>
>Wider usage, means more minds working on the same problems. More
>feedback means more new ideas. More ideas mean more products.
>
>(2) Promote better understanding of Linux.
>For those that do not know, or have not used, Linux, to inform them of
>the advantages (yes, and disadvantages to limit false expectations.)
>
>(3) Counter FUD
>There are a lot of people saying things about Linux that are simply not
>true. We should address these and counter them with facts.
>
>(4) Dispel myths about Windows.
>Linux is a good operating system. It is not the best, but it is very
>good. IMHO, as a whole, it is far better than any of the offerings from
>Microsoft. Unfortunately, Microsoft's marketing and technology
>"evangelism" has created the impression that the various Windows
>environments are much better than they really are.
>
>The above reasons are my reasons for posting here.
>
>Why on earth would someone advocate Windows?
>
>
>
>--
>http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Eager)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Date: 28 Dec 2000 10:09:06 GMT
On Wed, 27 Dec 2000 20:37:18, "David T. Johnson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My personal experience with HPFS is that it does not become fragmented.
> Fragmentation does occur on NTFS volumes and this fragmentation on NTFS
> volumes can significantly slow system speed.
I find myself agreeing with David this time...
NTFS shares a LOT of common ancestry with the VMS Files-11 file
system. I managed a VMS cluster for several years, and fragmentation
was a continual problem resulting in much downtime for system
maintenance.
The same company who sold the ONLY defragmenter for VMS are now doing
well selling the same product for NT.
Nuff said.
--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
8580*6,
8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Eager)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Date: 28 Dec 2000 10:09:10 GMT
On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:09:40, Harlan Grove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Compression requires processor time when reading from or writing to
> disk. On a single-user machine or any machine with relatively little
> disk I/O, the additional virtual disk storage may be worth the
> performance drag.
Additionally, anything loaded from a compressed file system cannot be
(efficiently) paged from there. It needs to be copied to a pagefile.
Not that I'm a great UNIX fan, but factually...
--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
8580*6,
8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
