Linux-Advocacy Digest #106, Volume #31 Thu, 28 Dec 00 21:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Why Advocacy? (genkai wa doko da)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Steve Mading)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Russ Lyttle)
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? (Ilya Zakharevich)
Linux, it is great. (mlw)
Re: Windows Stability ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Newbie: "Linux has come so far only to seem so far away" (maximus)
Re: Microsoft tentacles squirm deeper into software hosting ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: MS using Linux? (Tim Smith)
Re: Why Advocacy? ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Microsoft tentacles squirm deeper into software hosting ("Otto")
Re: Who LOVES Linux again? ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Who LOVES Linux again? ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Profitability of Linux being a challenge ("Otto")
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source (Gary Hallock)
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? ("Brad Wardell")
Re: VB job offer, and ensuing dilemma ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: VB job offer, and ensuing dilemma ("Les Mikesell")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: genkai wa doko da <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Advocacy?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:01:59 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> genkai wa doko da wrote:
> > [snip]
> > In my small experiance with USB under windows 98 it's horrible. THe
USB
> > mouse I have works for about 5 minutes usually less then the driver
> > stops responding. My girlfriend has a USB scanner at work, the
thing was
> > constantly disconnecting itself and you couldn't reconnect it (via
the
> > tray icon that said connect) I set it up on the parport and it's run
> > flawlessly ever since. I am just going to avoid USB.
>
> Well that is your experience and I don't doubt it. I've found usb to
be
> great, easy and fast. Drivers can be badly written in any OS, does not
> invalidate the concept.
true.
>
> How is your printer pass-though working for the scanner? I've never
had
> a printer pass -though reliably work without performing cartwheels.
>
works ok. The other computer in that office with a parport pass through
with a Zip drive doesn't work so great if someone prints during the
daily backup however :-)
> Embrace usb - it is a better way my friend!
I'm not so sure about that. "Better than what?" could be a question
"Better FOR what?" is another, if it worked reliably (which it hasn't
for me), what makes it better than say Fibre Channel for networking and
mass storage? Is it better than ieee1394 all in all?
USB 1.* is certainly unacceptable for hard drives but for legacy serial
devices I can see it's value. Lump Printers and Scanners in here if you
must.
I have a friend who thinks all you need is ethernet for any of the
solutions I have mentioned, and I can see his point. Put an rj45 port
on anything and write a driver to speak to it over ethernet. based on
MAC address I assume.
I don't see USB being anymore of a coverall than SCSI is (or Linux)
(heh)
brian
--
RCS/RI, Retro Computing Society: http://www.osfn.org/rcs/
RIFUG, RI Free Unix Group: http://www.rifug.org/
Dropdead, my band: http://www.dropdead.org/
my videogame stuff: http://www.gloom.org/~gauze/
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: 29 Dec 2000 01:01:43 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Tom Hall <thall1964@homedotcom> wrote:
: If I may chime in here:
: The funniest part of the whole election is, if the democrats weren't so
: fucking stupid, their candidate would have won.
: Gore HAD THE VOTES! Yet the people voting were to dense to make their vote
: known by following simple instructions at the booth.
: It's the SWEEEETEST victory possible for a hard core republican like myself.
Yeah, it probably would have been, if that was actually what
had happened. The chad-style of ballot doesn't let the
voter see what's happeneing behind the screen - the machinery
punches the chad for you when you make the selection, so you
can't see if it didn't work right. Some butterfly ballots were
MISPRINTED so the holes (in the binding) got shifted a bit from the
page so they didn't line up with the arrows (the picture the press
used was misleading, not showing the true nature of this problem.)
Sure, the Democrats trying to grab extra votes by interpeting
all questionable ballots as pro-Gore ballots was not right, but
this constant claim that the problems were caused by stupid
voters is also wrong. Fucking two-party system rhetoric. I'm
sick of this asinine behaviour on both sides. Nobody gives a
flying fuck about being honest anymore.
------------------------------
From: Russ Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:11:07 GMT
Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
>
> [snips]
>
> "Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > > 1) A door handle is intuitive, because even without needing to be taught
> > > about doors, handles, and the like, its purpose is readily apparent.
> > You obviously do not have children. You have never had to get a child
> > out of the bathroom who locked himself
>
> I said "door handle", not "lock". I fully agree that locking mechanisms may
> be less than totally intuitive; they, however, are distinct from handles.
>
Locks are now incorporated into door handles. This alone makes the
operation of door handles non-intuitive.
> Experiment:
>
> Take any kid who has learned that doors need to be opened, and that doors
> have handles which open them. Put said kid in front of an unlockable (or at
> least, unlocked) door which he is physically capable of opening, and for
> which he is physically capable of operating the handle. Ask him to open the
> door. How long do you think it'll take him to try the handle? Unless the
> handle is especially perverse, how long do you think it'll take him to open
> the door?
>
The operative phrase is "any kid who has learned that doors need to be
opened". About the only thing intuitive for a human is sucking at the
nipple and recognizing faces.
> > > 2) A power switch is intuitive, because while you do have to learn the
> basic
> > > concept of power switches, new ones are generally pretty obvious.
> > We beat this to death in another thread. My power bill might go up by as
> > much as 23% because people in Califiornia do not understand the
> > functioning of the moder power switch.
>
> Don't understand it, or simply choose not to use it the way you think they
> should?
Don't understand. They seem to think that "power switches" turn off
power to the device controlled. In the US at least, they most often do
not. Not even the light switch in a modern house.
>Some folks think all the lights that aren't being used should be
> turned off. Personally, I could care less. So my electrical bill is five
> bucks higher; that's my choice.
>Does that affect you? Perhaps. Perhaps
> not. If it does, because rates go up, it _also_ affects me. Fine, so my
> bill is $100 for three months instead of $80. Whoopee. If you don't like
> it, see if you can get a law passed - and enforced - that requires me to
> turn off any unused lights.
If you live in California, I would just as soon charge you for the power
that you use so my bill will go down. The problem I have is when you use
up power in your state, then try to rob my state of its power resources.
The Demlicans want to keep the big electorial states happy, so they keep
screwing me.
--
Russ Lyttle, PE
<http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
Not Powered by ActiveX
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ilya Zakharevich)
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Date: 29 Dec 2000 01:13:27 GMT
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to Brad Wardell
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>],
who wrote in article <OTQ26.24046$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > P.S. It is hard to defragment a 99%-full HPFS drive.
> ;-)
>
> Heh, we could talk about the known data-loss problems of a >95% full HPFS
> partition on OS/2 2.0 through OS/2 Warp 3 to around FP 38 in which if the
> system was improperly shut down that files *would* often be lost (not the
> entire system, just certain files).
Hmm. I'm running with fixpak17 from the time it was released (5 years
ago?). My disks got circa 97% full around the same time (I bought a
giant 4G disk 2 years before this ;-). Average-uptime-before-crash
being less than 2 months, I should have had more than 25 crashes
during this time (of course, actually it is much more - especially
when debugging *why* things crash ;-).
I did not see *any* dataloss - except on files freshly open for write.
So it should not be *that* often...
Ilya
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux, it is great.
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:34:18 -0500
It is funny, several years ago I had to do some research about what the
right OS should be for an embedded system. I had originally concluded
that it should be FreeBSD, but abandoned that for Linux in favor of
third party support.
Today, if one looks at Linux, it is simply amazing at what is available
for no cost.
PostgreSQL, a full relational, enterprise ready SQL database.
Star Office, a full featured office packages.
Full TCP/IP networking support.
Apache, a world class web server.
PHP, a world class web scripting language.
KDE2, a very good desktop environment.
GCC, a world class C/C++ compiler.
Countless languages and utilities.
CD ROM creation utilities.
MP3 generation.
Too many programs to mention. All free. Sweet!
Windows may have more games, and support a few pieces of hardware that
Linux does not, but Linux does almost everything, is free, and is more
stable.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows Stability
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:35:17 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:92aiif$h04$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > You know, don't you, that 2K will NOT even install an an machine with
32MB
> > So why do you tell lies like this. Even NT4 would be a pain in the ass
on
> a
> > machine like that. I know, I had the bad luck and had to install NT4 on
> > stuff like that. You can't even run decent Minsweeper on such a machine
> > On the other hand, Linux would chomp away quite happyly on that thing
>
> Win2K pro would run on 133Mhz+32MB
Running minesweeper or some real apps?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Newbie: "Linux has come so far only to seem so far away"
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:25:38 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Nick Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> maximus wrote:
>
> > > I couldn't really find your point?
> >
> > Not only have I been in the business since 1967, I have a Business
> > degree which included many hours of studying Management and
> > Communications.
>
> Communications, eh? Did you take the day off when they did paragraphs?
>
Another post that can only be from a Linux zealot. Rude, unhelpful and
falls in the same category as Matt Newell. I looked at your writing
below, better take a class in the King's English, mate...
> > I am looking for help, want to contribute and am distressed at what
> > I
> > observe happening. You chose to ignore that and begin the Linux
> > ranting
> > and raving while completely oblivious that someone is concerned
> > (objectively) and is
> > asking for advice.
>
> Ah, you've posted to the wrong newsgroup. This is the Linux-vs-Windows
> ranting-and-raving crowd.
Posting to *ANY* Linux newsgroup brings in the Linux vs. (notice the
correct English, bloke) Windows ranting and raving crowd. Bloody sad!
>
> > >
> > > Linux is not fragmenting, any linux developer knows that.
> >
> > Objectively, I disagree. My wish is that I am to be proved wrong.
>
> You have your wish - you *are* wrong and Linux is *not* fragmenting.
>While
> there are many distributions, there is only one Linux. No that isn't
>Zen.
>
> The only difference between the distributions is the bundled
> applications.
> They all use the same kernel.
>
Thank you for granting my wish, all knowing and powerful one! Do I have
three? As for all using the same kernel, humm, maybe you aren't the
genie that you think you are.
> > > Linux has many good applications, sure it is a bit behind with
word
> > > proccessing, but in other areas it is even or ahead of windows.
> >
> > Again, I am not trying to make this a windows vs. Linux issue. My
> > concern is that application development (not OS distro's) could be
> > much further along than it seems to be.
>
> Contrary to what you said at the top of your post, you aren't
> expressing
> yourself very clearly. What do you mean by this? Further along what?
Can't write so you critize others. Doesn't surprise me that you can't
comprehend reading as well.
>
> Anyway, my advice to you is this: You are thinking about it too hard,
>you
> see shadows of the fragmenting proprietory Unix market of 10-15 years
>ago,
> but Linux really isn't like that. Linux doesn't suffer from vendor
>lock-in,
Oh I see, you're not a genie. You are a mystic that interprets words
and determines the writer's intent. Well Chad, hope you liked it in
Florida....
> if there is a Linux application that you want it doesn't matter what
> distribution that you have. Likewise, if you decide to switch
distributions
> for some reason, you can take all your favourite apps with you.
>
> So just pick a distribution and try it out. If you don't like it try
>another
> one. They are all available for free download anyway (though I would
> recommend you buy a manual, either for a distribution or a generic
one from
> O'Reilly). You don't have to try them all, though if you're calling
>yourself
> a consultant maybe you should.
Hell Nick, I'll just setup all my systems and begin downloading and
then run over to Compusa and get every single distro that I can. Then I
can play with them all until hell freezes over. Obviously you don't
have a life, as I now suspect most Linux zealots would rather do this
than something really productive. Yes, I call myself a consultant. Only
netted $150K last year (US dollars, not pounds your majesty). Did you
make that much criticizing people who need help? Oh, I forgot, you were
also busy recompling another kernel. How productive and quaint!
>
> Where are the applications? Try http://freshmeat.net/, I count 43
>releases
> for yesterday and that is nothing unusual.
Weeellllll forgive me, now I am truly impressed. Here's some advice for
you. Get a life and don't give up your day job. Interpret that one, oh
mystic powerful know all (and don't forget to shine your crystal ball).
--
"Strength and Honor"
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Microsoft tentacles squirm deeper into software hosting
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:25:44 GMT
Wow.
Is this the first time you've done a whole bong all by yourself?
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: MS using Linux?
Date: 28 Dec 2000 17:21:38 -0800
Reply-To: Tim Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 04:36:45 GMT, Cannon Fodder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>were successful or not...probably not. They tried to use WinNT
>just after buying the www.hotmail.com company but it figuratively
>fell flat on its face.
And then, when they woke up the next morning, there was a hook hanging
from the door of Bill Gates car.
--Tim Smith
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Advocacy?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:43:42 GMT
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:lcM26.109746$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Craig Kelley wrote:
>
> > And if you think having to edit rc.d scripts when Linux screws up is
> > fun, just wait until you have to edit the registry to fix services
> > under NT.
>
> You run regedit., that's hard is it? Is it any hard than ln -s <x> <y>?
Yes, the keys and values in regedit are meaningless and you
can't see them all at once or easily diff the broken copy against
a working one. You can at least read the files you are talking
about linking - and you can use a tool that does the link for you.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Reply-To: "Otto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Otto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft tentacles squirm deeper into software hosting
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:45:01 GMT
"Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:ZjO26.47666$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
Snips...
: > You search in vain for a temporary remedy. The UCITA (Uniform Computer
: > Information Transaction Act) tells you that all the bizarre rights M$
: > claims,
:
: How does money claim any rights? Yet another truly unusual idea offered
by
: the author, and yet another idea being apparently totally unrelated to any
: of the fundamental theses of the message.
I enjoyed reading your well written comments, one does not see this kind of
posting in the advocacy groups. However, I sort of missed any reference to
the software companies who were supportive of UCITA. The following companies
are members of the DCC (Digital Commerce Coalition) which lobbied FTC for
this regulation, America Online, Intel, IBM, Microsoft, Novell and Symantec,
as well as several trade associations. Presently, there are no states to my
knowledge which implemented the UCITA as of yet, although Maryland and
Virginia already OK-ed the bill and it will become effective as of May,
2001.
More snips...
: All in all, a truly amusing piece of writing. Enjoyable, confusing,
: eclectic, disjointed and lacking an underlying structure to hold it
: together, but amusing.
That depends... if you happen disagree with the article, then yes :).
Otto
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Who LOVES Linux again?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:53:10 GMT
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "John W. Stevens" wrote:
> >
> >
> > If you don't want to buy a CD writer . . . just use the image.
> >
> > ISO Images do *NOT* require a CD writing device to use. Simply write
> > the image to a raw disk partition, mount it, and use it.
> >
> > Assuming your CD is /dev/hdc, and you have an empty, raw partition
> > under /dev/hda6 that is at least 680 MBytes, and you have an ISO9660
> > CD, then do this:
>
> [and lots of other informative stuff]
>
> Bravo! It's great to come to a newsgroup and actually /learn/
> something! You're post is a keeper!
I missed the previous post, but you don't need to use a real device
just to mount a filesystem image. If you download a copy of an iso image
(or make your own) in a file, you can mount the file using the
loopback device:
mount /path/to/file /mnt/point -o loop
It is a good way to test an image before burning a copy - or you
can just use it that way. I keep an assortment of images on
a box with a large hard drive and can mount them that way, then
export via NFS or samba faster than fiddling with a box of CDs.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Who LOVES Linux again?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:54:33 GMT
"MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:92fhsp$vie$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > And for all you windows users out there, it took me less time to install
> > the linux nvidia drivers than the windows ones since I didn't have to
> > reboot :)
>
> That's good. But you know, I'll take the 30 seconds it takes to reboot the
> winbox after a driver install over the 20 seconds it takes everytime I
> launch Netscape to get a url box.
I just leave my Netscape running for months. Why shut it down at all?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Reply-To: "Otto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Otto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Profitability of Linux being a challenge
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:54:59 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
: > MSFT is a special case. None of the other companies have been
witchhunted
: > by the government.
:
: None of the other companies operate as a criminal organization.
And you would know that how from you *nix hole?
: > And, oh yeah, MSFT makes a profit.
:
: So does the Mafia...and your point is?
He had a point, yours seems to be out of line which isn't surprising knowing
the fact that you are stuck on some *nix.
Otto
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:56:47 -0500
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
"Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
>
> OK. Go back to the beginning of this thread and s/SO/mozilla/ the result is
> the same.. Or s/SO/Linux Kernel/ or many others.
>
>
In other words, you admit you were wrong.
Gary
------------------------------
From: "Brad Wardell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:59:49 GMT
"Ilya Zakharevich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:92gofn$dpk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to Brad Wardell
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>],
> who wrote in article <OTQ26.24046$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > P.S. It is hard to defragment a 99%-full HPFS drive.
> > ;-)
> >
> > Heh, we could talk about the known data-loss problems of a >95% full
HPFS
> > partition on OS/2 2.0 through OS/2 Warp 3 to around FP 38 in which if
the
> > system was improperly shut down that files *would* often be lost (not
the
> > entire system, just certain files).
>
> Hmm. I'm running with fixpak17 from the time it was released (5 years
> ago?). My disks got circa 97% full around the same time (I bought a
> giant 4G disk 2 years before this ;-). Average-uptime-before-crash
> being less than 2 months, I should have had more than 25 crashes
> during this time (of course, actually it is much more - especially
> when debugging *why* things crash ;-).
>
> I did not see *any* dataloss - except on files freshly open for write.
> So it should not be *that* often...
Used to happen to us all the time. Even today, if I bring up the topic with
Kurt Westerfeld, violence may occur (the number of key files he lost over
the years having to go back to a day old backup is astounding and I had the
same sorts of problems when I was writing Galactic Civilizations).
Brad
>
> Ilya
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: VB job offer, and ensuing dilemma
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 01:52:14 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> [snip]
>
> Minimum wage for a programmer is out of the question do not take it.
> You'd be better off making more money at McDonalds.
I'd agree, but with the following exceptions:
1) If the company is extremely prestigious and has a low churn rate.
2) If the training leads to a valuable certification.
Does this job have the promise of a career, or is it simply a resume'
enhancer? Everybody here once worked at either Intel, Microsoft, or
Boeing. These companies go through I/T employees like grass through a
goose; as far as our HR is concerned you may as well have worked at Taco
Time on summer break. On the other hand, interning at Cisco and coming
out of the experience with a CCIE... I'd be willing to work for minimum
wage for that opportunity.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: VB job offer, and ensuing dilemma
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:04:45 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:92e8i0$ck9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Hey, I really could use some input here... and it is Linux-related
> (eventually)...
>
> I'm doing an accelerated computer programming course at a professional
> college. I was just offered a job recently, about seven months before I
> graduate, which would teach me some things that I didn't pick up at
> school, namely COM/COM+ programming within an ASP environment, mostly
> using Visual Basic and VBScript. Now, I'm at the top of my class at
> school, but according to these guys I'm just an advanced beginner (fair
> enough, I don't disagree). The thing is, what they're offering is 25
> hours a week, at minimum wage, for a few months worth of training, at
> which point things would get renegotiated (unsure to what terms,
> although using minimum wage as a starting point... yeesh...).
Keep in mind that using COM objects from vb/asp doesn't really
teach you anything. You are just using the script language as
glue to talk to someone else's objects through their documented
interfaces. It can be a productive environment, but not much of
a learning experience unless you get to the point of designing
and writing your own objects.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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