Linux-Advocacy Digest #106, Volume #33 Mon, 26 Mar 01 08:13:06 EST
Contents:
Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP. ("Alexander Nosenko")
Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP. (Giuliano Colla)
Re: More Microsoft security concerns: Wall Street Journal (Nick Condon)
Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP. (Shane Phelps)
Re: Linux dying (Nick Condon)
Re: Linux dying (Nick Condon)
Re: Linux dying (Nick Condon)
W2Knews: MS Digital Certificates Compromised ("Nico Coetzee")
Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP. ("Masha Ku' Inanna")
Linux politcal and corporate advocacy ("Ian McLeod")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Alexander Nosenko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP.
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:22:04 +0400
"Brian Rourke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Good point about version n.0, and thanks for the warning about RH 4.0.
> I was prepared for this, and can return it. Fool me once, shame on
> you, fool me twice, shame on me... After my Mandrake experience, I
> trust no one.
Brian,
don't blame the Mandrake too much. I suppose that EVERY Linux distro you'll
get has the same problems.
You've stumbled upon the famous "new-partition-in-the-middle" problem.
Basicaly, you've tried to squeeze (with the help of crippled PM) a bunch of
new partitions in the middle of the existing partitioning scheme with the
additional request of "do-not-touch-my-existing-windows-partitions". Is is
very untrivial task even for an expert with full-featured Partition Magic
utility at hand, and (afaik) Mandrake's PM is one-legged neutered
linux-user-friendly version of PM proper.
Some technical notes:
1. to install any Linux distro (or any other *nix) you need at least two
partitions: swap and root. Ideally, you need four: swap, root, /usr and
/home (may be /var too). Anyway, two at least. (I ignore tricks like
*nix-in-the-fat-partition - they mostly don't work for the freshman)
2. those partiions can be either "primary" or "secondary" (i.e., existing
within so-called "extended partition").
3. there could be up to three "primary" partitions on the HD and one
"extended" (optional). It is created after primary ones and (usually)
occupies the rest of HD. All the "secondary" partitions are located within
the "extended" one.
4. Windows98 cannot see second or third primary partitions. First primary is
usually disc C:, and "secondary" ones are D:, E: etc.
5. Windows98 cannot see non-windows (i.e. non-FAT) partitions at all.
6. ALL windows and ms doses are rather idiotic about partition table, so
setups perfectly valid for DR DOS or Linux or OS/2 could crash WinDOS with
no chance of booting even from the resque diskette. You should never
irritate MS with non-MS setups too much.
You want to leave your windows fat partition as they are, so only option is
to create new one(s) for Linux. Question is, where? You've trusted PM and it
failed :-(
Where can you get a free space?
1. you can resize (with PM) existing first (and only) primary partition and
squeeze new Linux partitions into this space (after primary but before
extended), two partitions at most - swap and root (with all the stuff). Not
too trivial operation and very sub-optimal partitioning.
2. you can resize (with PM) existing first (and only) primary partition,
move existing extended partition to the start of HD, add free space at the
end of HD to it and create as many Linux (secondary) partitions in it as you
please. It takes time... to move 20+ GB 6GB to the left (make backup!), but
the result worth it - you'll get very simple and standart partitioning. Just
don't let PM to create Linux partitions in this free space - Mandrake setup
will do it better.
One drawback of this approach is "8GB boot problem". I've solved it by
simply ignoring all dual-boot tricks - they are not for beginners :-). Boot
with age-old Loadlin utility from under the Windows or Dos - you'll need a
copy of Linux kernel on one of Windows disk. This way you can any day delete
all Linux stuff and noone will notice.
I don't know if your Mandrake PM can move partitions - it's up to you to
research. Anyway, the best place for a new Linux ones is at the very end of
HD.
Mail me personally if interested :-)
BTW, did you ever tried to install Windows on the Linux PC, keeping all your
data intact :-?
Regards,
Alexander Nosenko
<nae at cr dot cyco dot com>
"This program isn't just user-friendly - it's user-friendly and dumb!"
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP.
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:32:47 GMT
Brian Rourke wrote:
>
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2001 19:50:24 -0500, "Masha Ku' Inanna"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >> >The install fails right after the language, keyboard and mouse steps,
> >> >when it's time to format the partition. This occurs at slightly
> >> >different points in the Red Hat and Mandrake installation programs.
> >> >The error message is (I'm paraphrasing) that no valid devices were
> >> >found on which to install filesystems. It says I should consult
> >> >hardware information.
> >>
> >> Here's some more of my information:
> >>
> >> Gateway E4200-800 PC
> >> Intel Pentium III Processor and Motherboard
> >> ATI Rage 128GL 32MB AGP Video Card
> >> 128 MB RAM
> >> 30GB 7200RPM Ultra ATA hard drive
> >> Ultra ATA Controller for Windows
> >> Toshiba DVD/CDROM drive (seems to work OK with the installation
> >> program)
> >>
> >> My hard drive is partitioned in the following way:
> >>
> >> Drive C: (primary) 8079 MB (FAT32)
> >> Drive D: (ext) 10234MB (FAT32)
> >> Drive E: (ext) 5112MB (FAT 32)
> >> Drive F: (ext) 5151MB (FAT 32)
> >>
> >> I used the PartitionMagic utility to create a 2GB Linux partition on
> >> C: drive, which is the first drive on the disk.
> >>
> >
> >You might want to try to use PM to create a small partition using the first
> >32MB of the hard drive, and label that as /boot for Linux.
> >
> >I had luck on a 15GB drive setting it up so the following happened:
> >
> >the first 32M of hard drive space was /boot (linux)
> >
> >32M -> 6-GB for c: (windows)
> >
> >6GB -> 10GB for linux: swap, /, /usr, /home, etc..
> >
> >The remaining space was left for Windows.
> >
>
> This looks like good advice, thanks. Right now, I only have the
> PartitionMagic utility that came with Mandrake, so I can't control
> where the different partitions go on the drive. I may buy the
> software to try it, but I'm very wary now of "throwing good money
> after bad."
>
> >I have found that it is generally a lot easier to be able to dedicate an
> >entire HD to Linux/UNIX or whatever, so that you do not encounter
> >innumerable difficulties in hard-drive partitioning.
> >
>
> Another good thought, though beyond my present means.
>
> >I am not sure if the 1024 cylinder limitation is a factor or not anymore in
> >most recent Linux distributions. But it usually is around the 8GB mark on
> >most large capacity hard-drives, depending on their geometry. At least this
> >was true for all the WD and Maxtor IDE drives I've used above 10GB.
> >
>
> According to Mandrake and to the Redhat installation newsgroup, this
> limitation has been overcome. I have no way of knowing if this is
> true or not.
I don't want to add my advice to the ones you've already got, not to
risk to confuse the issue instead of clarifying it. But as far as the 8
GB mark is concerned, that's not a Linux (or Windows) problem, it's a
BIOS problem. Until recently most BIOS's were unable to load anything
located above cyl. 1024. So the problem is just where your loader (LILO,
GRUB or whatever) is physically located on the HD. To make it simple:
the boot sector is read by BIOS, and the boot program is executed. The
boot program tries (always using BIOS I/O) to load and launch the actual
loader. If it fails, because BIOS I/O can't access the disk sectors
required, you're done.
>
> Thanks a lot for your advice.
>
> Brian
>
> The late spring sunshine flooded,
> like a bursted tepid star,
> the pink Boulevard. The people
> beneath crawled like wounded insects
> of cloth.
>
> Wyndham Lewis
--
Giuliano Colla
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Condon)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Microsoft security concerns: Wall Street Journal
Date: 26 Mar 2001 11:43:46 GMT
Jan Johanson wrote:
>'but then again, I've NEVER met a linux user who's ever gave a damn
>about copyrights and IP law... to them, stealing is a way of life I
>guess...
Hahahaha. As opposed to Bill and his lily white crusaders, right?
--
Nick
------------------------------
From: Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP.
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:54:34 +1100
Brian Rourke wrote:
>
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2001 16:21:48 -0700, Brian Rourke
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> *Snip*
>
> >
> >The install fails right after the language, keyboard and mouse steps,
> >when it's time to format the partition. This occurs at slightly
> >different points in the Red Hat and Mandrake installation programs.
> >The error message is (I'm paraphrasing) that no valid devices were
> >found on which to install filesystems. It says I should consult
> >hardware information.
>
> Here's some more of my information:
>
> Gateway E4200-800 PC
> Intel Pentium III Processor and Motherboard
> ATI Rage 128GL 32MB AGP Video Card
> 128 MB RAM
> 30GB 7200RPM Ultra ATA hard drive
> Ultra ATA Controller for Windows
> Toshiba DVD/CDROM drive (seems to work OK with the installation
> program)
>
> My hard drive is partitioned in the following way:
>
> Drive C: (primary) 8079 MB (FAT32)
> Drive D: (ext) 10234MB (FAT32)
> Drive E: (ext) 5112MB (FAT 32)
> Drive F: (ext) 5151MB (FAT 32)
>
> I used the PartitionMagic utility to create a 2GB Linux partition on
> C: drive, which is the first drive on the disk.
I have my doubts about that disk configuration.
I think you'd be better off shrinking the C: drive and creating a native
Linux (ext2) partition in there - and probably a 256MB swap partition
as well.
I haven't used Partition Magic, so I might be wrong.....
I'm not sure how well Linux handles FAT32, either. My dual-boot boxes
use FAT16 or NTFS partitions.
How about trying a small FAT16 partition for the boot partition, then
a 256MB swap partition, a 2GB ext2 partition, followed by the FAT32
partitions. Actually, you should probably trash the FAT32 partitions
entirely and install W2K. You certainly have enough computer power
to run W2K, and it's far better than Windows 98 (one of the few things
the [lw]invocates agree on)
>
> As for mount points and other information, I'm still hunting for that.
>
> I've given up on Mandrake, so I'm currently trying to install RedHat
> 7.0.
>
There have been some adverse comments about RH 7.0.
Suse 7.1 seems quite nice.
> The late spring sunshine flooded,
> like a bursted tepid star,
> the pink Boulevard. The people
> beneath crawled like wounded insects
> of cloth.
>
> Wyndham Lewis
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Condon)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dying
Date: 26 Mar 2001 11:57:13 GMT
Jan Johanson wrote:
>
>"David Steinberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:99j73a$8so$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Jan Johanson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> : ANY company making profits in the 10 digit range is as healthy as I
>> : can imagine!
>>
>> : Considering MS has OVER $24,000,000,000 in _CASH_ reserves, I'd say
>> : they
>are
>> : capable of losing another 50% of their value and still not even
>> : notice.
>>
>> Why are you so proud of Microsoft's ability to efficiently take large
>> quantities of money from you?
>
>They didn't take a large quantity of anything from me. They charged me
>for their product like Ford charges me when I buy a truck from them, or
>the power company charges me for electricity or the grocer charges me
>for food. I don't see you holding a grudge against them...
If my grocer had $24 billion in his back pocket I'd be asking myself
questions about the value for money that I was getting from him.
--
Nick
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Condon)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dying
Date: 26 Mar 2001 12:04:11 GMT
Brent R wrote:
>Charlie Ebert wrote:
>> Seriously, anybody who thinks Linux will just blow away is a
>> total fool.
>
>Don't think I said that it would. I'm talking stocks here...
That's fine, just don't ever confuse the stock market with the real world.
All those huge tech valuations you saw in March last year, they weren't
real. Just as the lows you see today aren't real.
>> And Microsoft will eventually turn into an applications vendor
>> just as I predicted. They've already pretty much said so.
>
>Huh?
MS wants out of the operating system business, hence we see .NET.
--
Nick
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Condon)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dying
Date: 26 Mar 2001 12:12:46 GMT
Jan Johanson wrote:
>
>"2 + 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:99h6dm$o2g$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>> I just posted a link where IBM is puting high end clusters on Linux.
>
>So? IBM has yet to sell any of this. So, perhaps they are doing this at
>a loss and expect to make up for it in volume (joke, hehe)
I don't keep up with this stuff, but Linux super computers are old news;
Royal Dutch Shell have got one to help with their oil exploration; Los
Alamos have got one for nuclear weapons research; the NNOA (National
Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration) have got one for weather
prediction... etc, etc, etc.
--
Nick
------------------------------
From: "Nico Coetzee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: W2Knews: MS Digital Certificates Compromised
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:45:33 +0200
SOURCE : http://www.w2knews.com/ dated: Monday, March 26, 2001 4:29 AM
---snip--
3. NT/2000 RELATED NEWS:
* WARNING - Microsoft Digital Certificates Compromised.
Some one posing as being from Microsoft has gotten hold of a pair of
digital certificates. This is ugly. Why? These actually can be used
to make some one believe they are downloading genuine Microsoft code
while in reality they might install a malignant piece of code. The
alert that MS sent out regarding this, warns the problem covers all
the existing versions of Windows. Not good.
Let me quote Russ Cooper, Surgeon General of TruSecure Corporation and
NTBugtraq Editor: "Verisign has royally screwed up. Verisign managed
to issue a Class 3 Digital Certificate, a Certificate which is used for
code-signing of things like ActiveX controls, Macros, applications,
etc... to someone who purported to be from Microsoft Corporation."
The black hat seems to have used some social engineering to pull the
wool over Versign's eyes.
A digital certificate, when your box gets presented with one, shows
you a prompt that explains how these certificates work, and asks you
to trust it. Now, if you get presented with a Microsoft cert, either
via HTML or email, you have to check the date! If it has a date of
Jan 30 or Jan 31, 2001. If so, you cannot trust it and do not download
the presented code. No real MS certs were issued on these dates.
The bogus Cert will NOT be trusted automatically by your system, so
that is positive. But the fact you need to check the date (which users
very likely will not do) is definitely the liability here. Microsoft
is working on a solution but that is not here yet. I think you should
plan to patch all the systems you are managing in the next few weeks.
it's also not clear who the Black Hats are that pulled this off, so
we do not know what nastyness to expect: a virus, worm, trojans, your
hard disk trashed or other exploits.
Quite a few people in Microsoft are actually pretty pissed off. They
stated there has to be some kind of revocation mechanism in place to
correct this kind of thing. But it ain't working right at the moment,
as the URL for the CRL (Certificate Revocation List) is not filled
out in the certificates. You may need to install a CRL on every box
yourself, or get code from MS that make Explorer look at the MS CRL.
I'll let you know more when I know more.
---end snip---
I remember an argument during a class a few years back in University between
two guys about M$ Certificates. I guess we all now know who won the
argument...
Then again - I have not yet seen any end user give a damn about certificate
warnings anyway. They always just click OK, Yes, Yes, OK, Restart.
Nico Coetzee (from work)
------------------------------
From: "Masha Ku' Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP.
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 07:28:54 -0500
<snipped>
> I'll try this. Your advice is very helpful. *sigh* All I did was
> follow the Mandrake instructions exactly regarding the use of the PM
> utility.
>
> I think I've got an idea of what to do now. I'll shrink the part of
> the primary partition devoted to windows and then use fdisk to delete
> that partition.
>
> >Basically you've confused the setup program. You're lucky you didn't
wipe
> >out your disk, since Red Hat will do that if you choose the wrong option.
> >For what you've spent on two copies of Linux, you could have bought a
> >dedicated hard disk for it and downloaded a copy or bought a cheap-bytes
> >copy, then you wouldn't have to worry so much.
>
> Now I feel lucky! I haven't spent as much as it sounds. I may start
> pricing dedicated hard drives if I really get serious.
It is a little pricey, but it'll give you an idea of what to look for by way
of HD prices .. CompUSA sells their grey-box hard drives for about $99.00,
depending on what you're looking for in capacity and what silly sales
they're having. I think at one point a 20GB made by Maxtor ATA/100 drive
went for around $100...
but you get what you pay for. I only suggest them because I was a former
employee there. Former for good reasons. But they had some decent prices.
you should not have to pay more than that for a good drive. I am using two
of them currently, and have had zero problems.
------------------------------
From: "Ian McLeod" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux politcal and corporate advocacy
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:31:03 +0930
I am a techically adept but by no means technically educated Linux lover.
I could hardly string a configuration file together yet I would have a
good chance of understanding most things with time - only I don't have
time to sit down and work out Linux.
I still love it however. I love the community, the philosophy and the
whole politics of Linux - it just feels more natural to me - a little
more suited to human co-operation. Sure Mozilla is bloated and buggy or
configuration can be difficult - whatever. I still like the whole
philosophy of Linux and open source in general.
Hence - I am very keen to promote marketing and lobying for Linux - as
Linux is sadly lacking in serious marketing and lobying campaings. Yes I
know that there are exeptions to the rule such as IBM and so on - but
this is not enough when faced with competition that devotes most of its
astronomical revenue to marketing and lobying and that is clearly
winning.
Politics is not about what is right or wrong - it is about politcs.
Linux could be perfect - but it will still lose out without consumer
research and publicity. I am not referring to hype. Hype is for
ignorant consumers. Publicity and lobying are completely different.
There is a Linux install fest happening soon here in Australia - nation
wide. I live in Adelaide - South Australia and wish to make a
presentation on the gift economy and the philosophy of Linux. How can
something that is 'free' present an opportunity to business? I need to
see case examples - both bad and good (not just anectdotal reports of
victory).
We can not afford to sit around gloating about how our systems never
crash - we all know this is true although it makes no difference to the
average consumer or business. What matters is Total Cost of Ownership
(TCO), user acceptance, compatibility with Microsoft (we just have to
accept this people) and of course politics. How can it offer vested
interests an alternative interest? Can MCSE trained people be re trained
in Linux?
The list just goes on and on. But we need to be realistic. Without
serious marketing and lobying to both governments and business - Linux is
dead.
So any ideas about presentations on the gift economy for interested
citizens of the new age or business representatives - or on the
philosophy of Linux, etc, are very welcome.
Any ideas on marketing and lobying are welcome also.
Looking forward to your responses,
Ian McLeod
(Peoples Front for Realistic Strategies - Adelaide South Australia)
------------------------------
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