Linux-Advocacy Digest #331, Volume #31 Mon, 8 Jan 01 04:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Why Hatred? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux is not UNIX(tm) ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Windows 2000 ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Linux vs Microsoft (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why Hatred? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does) ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux *has* the EDGE! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: You and Microsoft... (Donn Miller)
Re: Why Hatred? (Donn Miller)
Re: Why Hatred? (Donn Miller)
Re: auto run ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:13:25 +0000
Tom Wilson wrote:
> > >second before posting you will realise that an interface that is always
> > >changing defeats the entire purpose of defining an interface.
> >
> > It also defeats the guys out there who are trying to crack it :-).
>
> Forget cracking it. Just legitimately trying to develop applications with
> it is difficult enough.
I've not noticed it changing so much it becomes improssible to develop
applications.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is not UNIX(tm)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 02:04:33 -0600
Alan Parker wrote:
> yeah, it's only a fucki'n clone based on Minix, another UNIX(tm) clone.
I don't have any idea what that rant was in aid of, but FYI Linux isn't based
on Minix.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 02:20:26 -0600
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sun, 7 Jan 2001
> [...]
> >> Well, if you didn't have your head in the sand, you'd notice that the
> >> "wholesale migration to Windows NT Server has not yet been attempted".
> >> Perhaps you're unwilling or unable to competently read press releases,
> >> but this means that the reason they have not attempted the wholesale
> >> migration is, indeed, because all of their pilot attempts to migrate
> >> were massive disasters. Of course, even in 1998, they moved to NT *for
> >> web servers*. The real work continues to this day to be done on Unix
> >> boxes.
> >
> >But that's just it. The rumor (and the article which the rumor is
founded
> >on) claim that MS converted Hotmail to NT completely, but that it
collapsed
> >under the load and they had to go back to Unix.
>
> I doubt that any article claimed that MS converted to NT "completely",
> though I'll wager you could extract that sentiment. You aren't going to
> find that I'm incredibly surprised to hear that reporting is subject to
> hyperbole.
Here is the original story, which all other reports of this reference. Note
how the website isn't a credible news source to begin with, not to mention
the authors name is simply "Prabjit".
http://www.vnunet.com/News/52704
"The software giant has attempted to exchange the Sun/Solaris infrastructure
of Hotmail with NT since buying it in December 1997. However, the demands of
supporting 10 million users reportedly proved too great for NT, and Solaris
was reinstated."
Now, the key phrases here are "the demands of supporting 10 million users
reportedly proved too great". This phrase clearly states that NT was
attempting to support 10 million users. The second key phrase is "Solaris
was reinstated". In order to "reinstate" something, it must have been
removed in the first place.
The article is bogus from the get-go, with no credible author, no credible
source, not even a credible news site.
> >That's not a "pilot attempt". The article claimed a wholesale conversion
to
> >NT that failed.
>
> No, they claimed a concerted attempt at a conversion failed, I'll wager,
> and you read the rest into it, or are pretending to, at least. Truth
> is, it doesn't matter since the fact is they found that NT could not
> replace Unix, and that is the point of the story.
That's because it was custom solution. Stock solaris couldn't handle it
either. It needed lots of custom software, not to mention a custom IP
stack. The fact that 2000 is currently handling it shows that a conversion
takes time.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux vs Microsoft
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:21:58 +0000
Glitch wrote:
> > > Getting fixes withen weeks of a release is a hell of a lot better than
> > > waiting 6 months for a service pack from MS!
> >
> > During which time, Microshaft denies that the problems even exist...
>
> after which more problems occur
Linux, of course, is the shining example of no problems occuring at all
isnt it... oh sorry... that's not exactly true.
My sound card is supported but when I last installed the driver KDE2.0
froze.
My USB devices are not even seen; apparrently a USB Hub is so exotic, Linux
doesn't know what it is.
XFree86 V4.0.1 is the first X driver that supports my Voodoo 5500. Works
nicely. Configuring it the first time from documentation was a joke!
Mandrake 7.2 managed to do the job properly.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:23:19 -0500
Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> "Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:bXN56.16755$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Tom Wilson wrote:
> >
> > > No...RPG-II and COBOL.
> > > C and C++ are my primary languages
> > > PASCAL, ASSEMBLER and PERL round out the top five.
> >
> > Oops! Misread the context. I can understand why you hate RPG-II and COBOL.
> >
> > Delphi is Object Pascal. Ever tried Ada, Modula II or Oberon?
>
> Ada, yes and no. I was part of a pilot program at my University to teach it.
> It still wasn't completely standardized at the time. It looked to have
> potential but it was awfully weighty. I'm sure the final implementation is
> smaller and more cohesive.
>
> Modula II is Pascal for anal-retentives <g>. A great language for teaching
> modular programming and data strutures. A bit too pedantic to do any real
> work with.
I thought Pascal was anal-retentive for practical use.
YOu mean Modula is even WORSE?
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:24:32 -0500
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > References: trimmed back.
> >
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Kyle Jacobs
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote
> > on Fri, 05 Jan 2001 20:06:17 GMT
> > <ZOp56.151404$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >What the hell are you smoking?
> >
> > Why do documents carry viruses? Does this make sense to anybody?
> > It sure doesn't make sense to me.
> >
> > In times of yore, one might envision a rogue nroff macro wreaking
> > havoc with the output of the nroff or troff processor, but that's
> > about it. Modern Word documents, by contrast, can take out an
> > entire system, because of a variety of factors (part of it being
> > laziness on users and/or sysadmin types).
> >
> > Of course, the fact that it's so easy to "point, click, execute,
> > kaboom" on Microsoft isn't helpful either (on Unix, at least, one
> > has to go through some hoops; it's doable, but the only damage would
> > be to one's own account -- not the entire system).
>
> Can you show me the virus for NT that can damage other people's file on
> NTFS?
Do you live in a cave or something....
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux *has* the EDGE!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:28:48 +0000
Terry Porter wrote:
> I've finally finished upgrading my Linux box to Mandrake7.2!
How long did that take you?
> Now I always kept my old system fairly up to date, but the new Mandrake
> is amazingly easy to install, and I must admit things have improved a
> lot since Redhat 4.2!
It is an amazing package to install, but annoying when you try to be
selective in what you install. I installed KDE 2.0 but because I didn't
setup my modem, pppd wasn't installed! Luckily, it was easy to install that
afterwards but, as Home Simpson would say - "D'oh!".
> I think you could probably, pop the cd in your pc and boot from it,
> select "standard install" and simply go away after youve anwered the
> relevant questions about internet connection, printer type etc. During
> the install, the CD opens automaticaly and the installer asks you for
> the second CD. Neat.
Previous versions of Mandrake (7.0 I seem to remember) had problems asking
for the CD.
> Xfree86 was a total breeze, my ISA NIC card autoprobed perfectly, so did
> my ISA soundcard. PCI video card was picked up straight away.
Since my sound card is only supported by a non-free driver and KDE 2.0
froze last time I tried it, this is still broken.
> Oh its also WAY faster.
>
> Good one Mandrake, worth every penny, and once again showing Linux *has*
> the EDGE!
What edge? I can't see anything on Linux running faster than on Windows.
Response on X seems sluggish at times.
Applications are the usual hotch potch of half-beta-test and broken bits
and pieces (for those of you out there about to lynch me forf saying this -
this is HYPERBOLE. Apparently some of you can't recognise it).
The basics are there but there's more work to be done to be "the Edge"
compared to the desktop on Windows.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:35:16 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You and Microsoft...
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> I'm not pissed, unlike running Linux which I finally just deleted and
> installed FreeBSD over. I'm much happier now.
Great. But didn't you find it harder to install and configure, though?
For me, it's easy, as I am a 5 1/2 year FreeBSD "veteran", having run
FreeBSD since 2.0.5, so I wouldn't know too much about the difficulty
level. I think Linux is a great thing, but it seems as though FreeBSD
is taking a back seat to Linux as far as companies and
colleges/universities. For example, at CMU, there's a lot of jobs
involving hacking the Linux kernel. I have yet to see one that involves
FreeBSD. Well, I did see _one_ that involved some network programming
on FreeBSD at CMU, but that's about it.
I started using FreeBSD at about May 1995, with 2.0.5 release. I really
liked it. Then, I tried Slackware 2.2.0 (that's what was out at the
time), and I found that I didn't like it as much as FreeBSD. I found
Slackware 2.2.0 more "user-friendly" than FreeBSD at the time. Although
I liked FreeBSD better, I found that Linux supported a wider range of
HW. Also, at the time you could go out to any mall bookstore, and pick
up "Linux Unleased", which had a Slackware 2.2.0 CD included. I never
saw any FreeBSD CD's w/book at any mall at the time. So, I figured I
was better off running Linux. Yes, Slackware was probably the most
popular at the time.
In Oct 1996, I came back home to FreeBSD, and FreeBSD has been my
favorite "unix" OS ever since. (Can't remember which version was out at
the time... maybe it was 2.1.3 or 2.1.5, can't remember.) Oh, I've run
Linux off and on, and I still think it's a great OS. But, I made this
committment to stick with FreeBSD through thick and thin, good and bad.
As far as FreeBSD is concerned, yes, I feel that it could probably use
some nice configuration tools, like an X-based installer, for example.
But, the danger in using GUI tools is that you may come up with a
horrendous design. For example, I'm not too crazy about RedHat's
linuxconf, as I find the maze of options confusing. Now, RedHat is more
or less stuck with linuxconf, good or bad. I think it's better to come
up with a better, simpler, more intuitive hand-configurable set of
config files first, and _then_ add the graphical config tools. If you
layout the design of the /etc configuration files after the GUI config
editor, the danger is that you may end up with something not very
conducive to human-editing. I've seen people mention (at least in the
past) about how RedHat's /etc directory is sort of messy to deal with by
hand. I've heard the same thing about Solaris. If you look at
Slackware's /etc layout, it's a lot "nicer" to hand-config.
So, the danger in making something appealing to the masses is that you
may put the graphical config tools higher up on the priority list than
intuitively laid-out config files. There's nothing wrong with
user-friendly GUI tools, but you have to make sure it's just as easy for
a human to deal with them.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 04:05:19 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Tom Wilson wrote:
> Modula II is Pascal for anal-retentives <g>. A great language for teaching
> modular programming and data strutures. A bit too pedantic to do any real
> work with.
Hmmm... and what about Modula-3? Is this worth learning, or not? I
could install the M-3 development package on my machine, but I think I
have enough work cut out for me trying to learn and/or perfect my
knowledge of C, C++, Java, and Perl. It sounds like the above-mentioned
languages are a lot more common than Modula-3. But, I've seen people
mention that Modula-3 was a "great systems programming language". Gee,
and I here I thought C and C++ did this pretty well. 8-)
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 04:08:15 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> Of course, X doesn't seem to have MulDiv().... :-)
Hmmm.... that sounds like something you could easily wrap up with a
single function consisting of multiple Xlib functions.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: auto run
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 04:08:32 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> did eloquently scribble:
> > since I've never seen a self-running program, I'm merely
> > asking you what the fuck this "autorun" thing is supposed to be?
>
> Ever heard of a daemon?
Yes, i'm fully aware of daemons :-)
> (And it DOES mean without human intervention AS WELL AS "self running"
> these days. Words change their meaning over time y'know).
no...deamons are started by init via either /etc/inittab or
other mechanisms such as /etc/rc.d/rc[n].d/S[XX]script_name
>
> You're not worth the effort.
> You've been told three times now to cut it out with the sig, and you haven't
My .sig serves it's purpose....to dissaude personal attacks as described
therein by the various individuals listed.
> even responded to it... Let alone cut it down to size.
It only works if it's constructed right.
Besides, 1000 copies of my .sig are less bandwidth than one jpeg.
>
> You even left this bit....
>
> >> Oh, and I noticed you totally ignored the rest of my posting...
> >>
> >> So I'll repeat it as you seem to be incredibly thick. It might sink in this
> >> time...
>
> But snipped the bit you didn't want to see because it'd make your stupid sig
> shrink.
>
> The "accepted" sig length is 4 lines although some people go 2 or 3 lines
> over... You're going 33 lines over!
>
A currently frivolous rule written when 1 Megabyte of mem, a 1 MHz processor,
and 200M disk drive was considered to be a rather impressive system, and
1200 bits/second was blazzzzzzzing speed for a modem.
> Now sod off until you've got a clue.
>
> --
> | |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack|
> | [EMAIL PROTECTED] |in the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you|
> | |can't move, with no hope of rescue. |
> |Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)|Consider how lucky you are that life has been |
> | in |good to you so far... |
> | Computer Science | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy.|
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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******************************
