Linux-Advocacy Digest #696, Volume #31 Wed, 24 Jan 01 04:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe (J Sloan)
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: A salutary lesson about open source (Ed Allen)
Re: A salutary lesson about open source (Ed Allen)
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant (salvador peralta)
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe (salvador peralta)
Re: Why "uptime" is important. ("Keldon Warlord 2000")
Re: Why "uptime" is important. (salvador peralta)
Re: Linux is INFERIOR to Windows (Richard Steiner)
Re: Designed for Windows! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Multiple standards don't constitute choice (Pete Goodwin)
Re: The Server Saga (Pete Goodwin)
Re: The Server Saga (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Windows 2000 (Ed Allen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:51:05 -0500
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Stuart Krivis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 05:30:25 GMT, J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >Chad Myers wrote:
> > >
> > >> > Linux has support for at least 2 choices of journaling filesystem (reiser
> or
> > >> > ext3 )
> > >>
> > >> Neither of which are stable and each have their own caveats. NTFS 5 has
> none
> > >> of these problems.
> > >
> > >So say the windows zealots - but of course it's not true.
> > >Suse has been shipping lvm and reiser for some time now,
> > >and is used in production environments.
> >
> > Reiserfs is quite stable IME. I've seen it running on several production boxes
> > doing web caching. I performs very well.
>
> Well, your personal opinion doesn't count for much. I've not seen Red Hat
> attempt to sell it as a solution to their enterprise customers. Right now,
> they're still shafting them with ext2fs. Reiser is clearly superior to
> ext2fs, why isn't Red Hat selling that to them?
>
> > NTFS seems to be a decent FS. I have no real complaints about it - except for
> > the problems with fragmentation.
>
> Which isn't much of a problem, especially on Win2K.
>
> > Oh - there's also that little problem with the MFT growing and growing and...
>
> Which has never been a problem except in lab tests. The 4 million file bug
> was discovered by a guy who wrote a program to test it. It's never been
> a problem in the Real World. Anyhow, it was fixed in NT 4 SP4 and isn't
> an issue AT ALL now.
>
> > And I have seen systems get hosed when they're not shut down correctly.
>
> I've never seen that, well not after NT4 SP3 anyhow. It's certainly not
> a problem on Win2K. Have you ever shut down a Linux box with ext2fs
> incorrectly? God help you. You have a 90% chance of completely hosing
> your fs. Not much of an enterprise file system IYAM.
I've had a couple power failures.
My Linux system has NINE ext2fs filesystems.
According to you, each time I have a power failure, about 7 or 8 of
those filesystems should have been totally hosed.
Experience, however, shows that on each occasion, the ext2fs has been
completely UNDAMAGED.
Conversely, the LoseDOS box had shit-loads of errrors each time.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:53:05 GMT
Chad Myers wrote:
> "J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > nuxx wrote:
> >
> > > W2K Advanced Server is an excellent choice for this application.
> >
> > it might be made to work, but they could have saved themselves
> > a ton of money, and gotten better performance, reliability, and
> > remote management capability by using Unix.
>
> Not true on all accounts.
I feel a sermon coming on...
Right about here is where the stirring music begins to
play, and we are all moved by an impassioned speech
about how swell windows is - really, this time they got
it right!
<propoganda snipped>
jjs
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:54:44 -0500
Martin Eden wrote:
>
> Steve Mading wrote:
> >
> > Martin Eden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ~snip~
> >
> > :> Debian prefers to call Linux - GNU Linux.
> >
> > : That's because the operating system is filled with GNU sources.
> >
> > But calling it "GNU Linux" is also a lie, because Linux is not
> > a GNU project.
>
> I think technically the term is GNU/Linux, though I didn't disagree with
> Charlie about that issue in itself.
No...technically, it's Linux with GNU software in /bin.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:00:35 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>What the heck is "iPlanet", that 40% of the Fortune 500 hits (or sites?)
>use that? So, yea, 15% apache would certainly be more than "barely
>makes a showing" to any reasonable person, seeing as nobody even has a
>majority. To those intent on finding numbers, ANY numbers, to maintain
>their denial of the obvious, however, all bets are off.
>
His whole argument is about 500 companies which might use 2000 web
serving hosts between them.
Eighty percent of 2000 is 1600.
So he is using those to distract people from the numbers he does not
like.
Netcraft says Apache has 60.04 percent of 24753042 total servers
while Microsoft-IIS has 19.57 percent.
Worse, it has been essentially the same percentages for months.
How can he justify the monopoly as "superior products" with numbers
like those ?
He is desperate to avoid facing the fact that Microsoft is a
criminal organization so he is reduced to this.
The phrase "Angels on the head of a pin" comes to mind.
--
FYI. When you do type "make" on the Windows NT source tree, it takes almost
38 hours for it to complete on a 4-way 400 Mhz PII System, as opposed to
about 5 minutes on Linux. Linux is not Doomed!!!!!! -- Jeff Merkey
http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999/1999week26/0787.html
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:00:35 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Aaron Ginn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I pity you.
>
The life of a sock puppet is a hard one.
--
FYI. When you do type "make" on the Windows NT source tree, it takes almost
38 hours for it to complete on a 4-way 400 Mhz PII System, as opposed to
about 5 minutes on Linux. Linux is not Doomed!!!!!! -- Jeff Merkey
http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999/1999week26/0787.html
------------------------------
From: salvador peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:17:18 -0800
Steve Mading wrote:
>
> The psychology of the drivers is irrelevant to the question of
> how inherently safe the vehicle is. It's not my fault that others
> drive SUV's badly, thinking them better than they are, and it has
> no bering on how safe the car is for ME.
Ya gotta learn how to smile, Steve. There are simply not enough
opportunities in life to bash texan and californian drivers. Especially
if you've ever had to share the road with drivers from either group in a
snowstorm.
> The point is that with a lower ground clearance, it is irrelevant
> how good your traction might be if your bottom starts touching
> the snow with only a few inches of cover on the ground. If the
> bottom rests on the snow, the weight isn't on the wheels and you
> lose friction.
In 10 years of driving in snow, that only ever happened to me once.
When you in texas and you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
Anyway, it wasn't my intention to damage your faith in your car, I was
just poking some fun at an admittedly overgeneralized group of really
bad drivers I have had occasion to witness.
I take it as a sign of personal growth that I am not about to debate the
merits of your somewhat dubious assertions about the nature of physics
as it relates to the stability of vehicles in the snow.
--
Salvador Peralta
http://salvador.venice.ca.us
------------------------------
From: salvador peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:20:29 -0800
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> RealVideo is pathetic. That is the biggest pile of crap software I've ever
> seen.
Pretty refreshing to see that the M$ FUDmeisters don't limit their FUD
to just open source applications.
"Innovation 101: Copy someone else's idea, produce an inferior
alternative, bundle it for free with our product, and then have our
marketing bots and lackeys like the chads FUD the hell out of the guy we
stole the idea from."
- snipped from the redmond guide to application development & product
marketing
--
Salvador Peralta
http://salvador.venice.ca.us
------------------------------
From: "Keldon Warlord 2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Why "uptime" is important.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:27:53 -0800
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Kyle Jacobs wrote:
> >
> > "T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
(snip)
>
>
> > > No, its probably because its a technical page, and therefore he
doesn't
> > > give a shit if it looks like crap. Why, do you think the nuclear
> > > physicists are bothered by it?
> >
> > I'm sorry, but a little USER INTERFACE thinking would make this page
> > actually not be an eyesore. Sure, it get's the point across, but it
LOOKS
> > terrible. Some frame based orginization, a soft background, some CSS, a
> > table to orginize things. Would this KILL the developer? Cause his
page is
> > KILLIN my eyesight.
>
> The page is fine and works very well. Any `pretty' stuff in unnecessary
> and would distract from the content.
>
>
he wasn't asking for "pretty stuff", he was asking for a well-formed site.
retina burn doesn't give you return visitors...I know this for a fact. ;-)
--
"One by one the Penguins steal my sanity." (found printed on a T-shirt)
------------------------------
From: salvador peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why "uptime" is important.
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:48:13 -0800
Keldon Warlord 2000 wrote:
>
> > The page is fine and works very well. Any `pretty' stuff in unnecessary
> > and would distract from the content.
> >
> he wasn't asking for "pretty stuff", he was asking for a well-formed site.
Anyone who uses the phrases "well-formed site" and "frames" in a
sentence that does not include some form of negation doesn't know enough
about web-based user interfaces to hold a valid opinion on the topic.
In any case, I wouldn't expect a physicist to to do more than latex to
html, anymore than I would expect a winChimp to do more than point,
click, and reboot often.
--
Salvador Peralta
http://salvador.venice.ca.us
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Steiner)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Linux is INFERIOR to Windows
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:02:17 -0600
Here in alt.os.linux, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck) spake unto us, saying:
>On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:46:47 -0600, Richard Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
>> We also use OS2200 on the Unisys (formerly Sperry UNIVAC) mainframes,
>> which is another very stable operating system used by dozens of large
>> companies worldwide.
>
>Does Unisys still make those or are they "legacy"?
The Clearpath IX line is a continuation of the 2200 series:
http://www.unisys.com/hw/servers/clearpath/ix/
They still run the same old OS2200 as far as I can tell. :-)
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
+ PC/GEOS + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
Atheism is a non-prophet organization!
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Designed for Windows!
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:40:39 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > Hello folks,
> > The idea of creating this Linux logo struck me
> > when I found my IBM thinkpad with Linux gives
> >
> > 1. double battery life
> > 2. better suspend resume performance (win98 could not ever resume 100%)
> > 3. my ricochet 128k never gave 128k on win98...but on linux it gives
> > 200-250k! (honestly not exaggeration!)
> > 4. ofcourse much better speed performance.
> >
> > have a look and let me know what do you think.
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/acme_new/linux-win.gif
> >
> > -ajay
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com
> > http://www.deja.com/
>
> Fantastic!
> I have a Microsoft Optical mouse. Under windows it is a bit jerky,
> which at first worried me - optical mice aren't meant to do this. I
> tried it under Linux, and it was unbelievably smooth. Seems windows
> doesn't like MS hardware too much...
And this surprises you?
> --
> http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Multiple standards don't constitute choice
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:38:56 GMT
In article <94lnib$9s7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is actually MORE important than having a single mandated look and
feel.
> I can deal with square buttons and round buttons and buttons that look
like
> houses and buttons that have legally protected trademark icons, but
having a
> system that can only run 20% of the applications because the
applications are
> tightly bound to work exclusively with one and only one proprietary system
> and only work with that system creates a problem. The classic example was
> applications written with Borland C++ that were torpedoed by Microsoft
> Service Packs 4 and 5.
I've yet to see this with C++ Builder and Delphi, both Borland products.
> Every time Microsoft comes up with a new operating system, applications
> written in other development platforms have a strange habit of
> malfunctioning.
I've yet to see this... even from the days of Delphi 1.0 there were very
few problems with successive releases of Windows - except for the Common
Controls DLL which Microsoft released with Internet Explorer.
> With Microsoft the standard is: whatever Bill and Steve think is Cool this
> month.
I won't dispute that!
> > The file open/save dialogs look different and act differently.
>
> They also look and act differently on non-microsoft applications,
especially
> when something other than Visual Studio was used as the development
platform.
Really? When I use Delphi or C++ Builder, they look like VC++ open/save
dialogs.
> MOTIF was never put into Open Source and run-time shared libraries must be
> purchased. Netscape Navigator 4.75 used Motif, and had a 20 megabyte
> footprint to handle both the Netscape application (only about 4 megabytes)
> and Motif (about 15 megabytes).
I thought MOTIF had gone open now.
> Instead, you can mix and match applications based on the features you like
> most without being restricted to a single platform, destop, toolkit, or
> development system.
It's this mixing and matching that I call a "mess".
> But that's the point. Sure, the file selection dialogue is different on
> different systems. Unfortunately, each approach represents a different
> combination of user simplicity, memory, performance, and development
time.
> You could get an entire file manager, but then even your 80386 with 4
meg of
> RAM would have to swap it's brians out trying to navagate your file
selection
> manager.
Except I don't have a 80386 with 4MBytes of RAM, though I take your
point. Horses for courses.
> > Which one is the KDE equivalent of linuxconf?
> > DrakConf, DiskDrake etc.?
>
> KDE Control Center?
KDE control center is for the KDE desktop, not disk drives, network
configuration etc.
> Moving the pedals would be a problem. On other hand I learned
> to drive an Automatic Transmission, then I learned 3-on-the-tree,
> then I learned 4-on-the-floor (truck), then I learned 5 speed.
And I learnt to drive on the right hand side when I came over on various
business trips to America. Sometimes trying to remember which side
traffic is going to come from makes the whole process exciting!
> I often drive rental cars, and I frequently get different makes
> and models. Each car has slightly different instrumentation,
> high-low dimmer, windshield wipers, heater, air-conditioning,
> and Radio. It takes about 3 minutes to learn the new control
> panel.
Driven abroad much?
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Server Saga
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:42:39 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > By why do you help someone out in the wrong group?
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "wrong group", Linux users
> tend to be generous and willing to help, regardless of "group".
>
> You amused yourself by abusing that generosity. Your style
> is different from the other wintrolls (flatfish, chad, and kyle) but
> you're cut from the same cloth.
Really? And what happens when someone comes here for help? Sometimes
they get it, but mostly they get told to go elsewhere.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Server Saga
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:41:21 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At the time we thought we were helping you fix whatever
> it was you screwed up, and get everything working. It
> did not become clear until later that you were just
> wasting our time, and had no intention of ever fixing
> the problems, if they ever really existed.
It does say in my original post my final solution - I installed Windows ME.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Subject: Re: Windows 2000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:00:37 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Said Tom Wilson in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:17:33
> [...]
>>The difference this time, at least in the server market, is the competitors
>>have a vastly superior product in terms of reliability and value.
>
>I don't see how that is any different than any other market Microsoft
>has monopolized.
>
No one with a non M$ subjugated brain believed that early versions
of IE could hold a candle to Netscape.
Technical superiority is not enough to go against monopolization.
>>you're Microsoft) Why do you think they keep touting the reliability of
>>their new products (of course, we know better)? They know they're up against
>>the wall.
>
>Well, we certainly don't remember Microsoft ever touting the reliability
>of new products. Doh.
>
http://home.iae.nl/users/paul/comic/index.html
Bottom of the page.
>>The process is already under way in the server market, Max. If
>>home-user-based distros like Mandrake keep improving, the same will happen
>>in that market. You just can't compete with high performace and low cost if
>>you bring the opposite to the market. Linux isn't quite ready yet for the
>>home market, unfortunately. (Go ahead and flame, folks..It isn't...but its'
>>getting closer...by leaps and bounds)
>
>Indeed. It may have escaped your notice, since if its not widely
>reported in the Media it obviously can't have any effect on your life,
>but Microsoft has already been convicted. You are correct, though, that
>you can't compete with high performance and low cost. You seem still to
>be terminally confused on this point, though: monopolies do not compete.
>Their actions are not called "anti-competitive" just because somebody
>doesn't like them. That term has meaning, you know; an anti-competitive
>action is not the same class of activity as a competitive action. And
>you can't compete against anti-competitive actions.
>
Locking consumers in with preload contracts seems to have been good
enough for superior technology before.
Free ? Didn't help Netscape.
The trigger for the antitrust trial was when Netscape offered to
*pay* Compaq to put Netscape on their desktops and, after
negotiating for a while, were turned down.
During the wind down of the negotiations a Compaq employee "let
slip" that Microsoft had threatened to revoke their licenses to all
Microsoft software if the deal was consummated.
Netscape went to the DOJ. After months of Microsoft posturing about
how it could not really be true if nobody at Compaq would testify to
it in court it came out that Compaq was forbidden by contract to say
anything Microsoft did not approve beforehand.
Under threat of "Obstruction of Justice" charges Microsoft released
all the OEMs from their gag clauses and the trial and subsequent
conviction were the result.
So I must agree with Max that government intervention is required to
break the hold of a monopoly.
Anybody who believes that previous monopolies were about to be
overturned anyway is a victim of "Hindsight Bias."
>>> >The government didn't weight in at all in my decision to
>>> >scrap NT from my present and future networking - a superior product did.
>>>
>>> Your decision did not cause Dell to start supporting Linux (or if it
>>> did, Dell would have offered something, anything, other than Windows,
>>> for the last ten years, don't you think?) The government action did.
>>
>>Not enough people made the decision.
>
>Nobody had the opportunity to make the decision, so how can "enough" of
>them make it?
>
The old, "How can I cut a Purchase Order for a product you don't
sell ?"
Microsoft can cut a sweetheart deal which any OEM would be a fool to
reject because they know that when the competition dies they can
renegotiate less friendly terms.
> [...]
>>> Precisely. Had the government not finally pinned Microsoft down, the
>>> monopoly would still be quite water-tight.
>>
>>Not in the server market. Folks have been waiting for this for quite a
>>while. Myself included.
>
>Why waiting? ;-)
Sorry Tom, you are trying to convince us that Linux being offered
by OEMs on servers was inevitable.
They had contracts which prevented that before the government
intervention. Without the intervention why would that change ?
Do you think OEMs *want* to sign extortionate contracts ?
--
FYI. When you do type "make" on the Windows NT source tree, it takes almost
38 hours for it to complete on a 4-way 400 Mhz PII System, as opposed to
about 5 minutes on Linux. Linux is not Doomed!!!!!! -- Jeff Merkey
http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999/1999week26/0787.html
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