Linux-Advocacy Digest #139, Volume #32 Mon, 12 Feb 01 02:13:06 EST
Contents:
Re: NTFS Limitations ("Tom Wilson")
Re: The Wintrolls ("Donn Miller")
Re: Answer this if you can... (John Muir)
Re: Answer this if you can... (J Sloan)
Re: NTFS Limitations ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Answer this if you can... (John Muir)
Re: Linux Threat: non-existant (Ian Pulsford)
Re: Answer this if you can... (John Muir)
Re: Answer this if you can... (John Muir)
Re: Answer this if you can... (John Muir)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 06:36:14 GMT
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:rJJh6.13521$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:967ngu$m6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >
> > >> The point is .NET is nothing new.
> >
> > > Multiple language common runtime? Please point me to a URL where
> > > I can see where this has been done in the past.
> >
> > www.python.org
> >
> > Of course, you're going to have to understand some of the details of
> > python in order to understand its relevancy to this topic.
>
> Well, at first glance, this still only looks like one language.
>
> I'm talking about multiple languages. With .NET, there are least
> these few in the works:
>
> VB.NET
> JScript.NET
> C++.NET
> C#
> Perl.NET
> I think I've heard about a few others, but I haven't
> confirmed them, but I know at least there for sure are going
> to be .NET languages.
>
> They all compile to the common language runtime (CLR) which
> can be executed on any platform the runtime is written for.
> Currently, there are CLRs being written for all the Windows
> platforms and for Linux. I'm sure that Solaris wouldn't
> be far behind. Possibly HPUX as well.
I'll say this much, Chad...
You, unlike a few others touting it, actually appear to have a working
knowledge.
The multi-platform CLR idea is good. But whether or not this will be yet
another JAVA is a question that begs to be asked. Neither Sun nor MS were
able to do much with JAVA for understandable reasons. How do you think this
will be any different?
------------------------------
From: "Donn Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Wintrolls
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 01:40:07 -0500
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On 12 Feb 2001 01:51:45 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking) wrote:
> 1. The programs "I" need to use don't exist on the Linux platform
Actually, some of my favorite apps to use during the small amount of time
I'm running Windows ME are:
* Cygwin, which includes a port of bash, just like Linux uses. Granted, the
Cygwin port is sluggish, but still way better than that ultra-thin joke MS
calles "command.com".
* Vim.
* gcc
* XEmacs
So, yes, the free software that is available on Linux is still my choice
even on Windows, although commerical alternatives exist.
Also, a lot of the software for Windows is a little too watered-down in
their quest to appeal to the lowest common denominator of computer user. I
call it "brain-softening" software.
> 2. There are plenty of free/shareware programs for Windows that are
> far better than the Linux counterparts.
Nah, you probably are just ignorant of how much great free software is
available for Linux. I'd use a lot of that software on Windows, too.
> Programs that are not stuck eternally in some 1.0-x version number.
Microsoft has been known to ship software before all the bugs were worked
out just to make a deadline. Also, MS has been known to "pump up" version
numbers to make their software look better than their competitors. Example:
MS Word jumped from 2.0 to 6.0 on the Windows platform just to make Word
look more advanced than Word Perfect, which was in version 5.0 while Word
was still in v. 2.0b. Verdict:: the quality of the software, not the
version number, is what's most important.
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------------------------------
From: John Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Answer this if you can...
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:44:41 +0100
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:26:05 +0000, "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Not too bad, this is a common question, but, here's the answer:
>
>rpm -q --filesbypkg package-name
>
Not in GnoRPM.
>
>look for stuff under /bin or /usr/bin
>
Why doesn't it just tell me? You know "Do you want to read the release
notes?" at the end of the installation.
>
>
>I can't work out WTF you're talking about. If you're trolling for flames,
>then you have to be understood for people to disagree with you. I really
>can't understand what you're on about.
>
Once you install it you have to find it. Sun Netscape's iPlanet
installs itsself in /ul/... Crazy!
>>… Yes, you arrogant bastard,
>
>Petty insults don't make for good trolls. They are esaily identified and
>will be ignored.
>
Sorry, I was a little uptight yesterday.
>> I know Linux is so bloody clever that this will stop baddies usurping …
>> and so on.
>
>Eh?
>
Don't be coy, you do know what I mean, trojans in ROOT's current
directory.
>> But it doesn't make anyone actually want to use Linux instead of
>> Windows, does it?
>
>I can't disagree if I don't know what you mean.
>
Thas a common Linux problem.
>
>> I can't get the delete key to delete the character to the RIGHT of the
>> insertion cursor in X. (Please don't even try to tell me that
>> 'historic' reasons related to teletypes and punched tape have any
>> rele-vance to today).
>
>What about those of us who still use ttys, eh?
>
I actually believe you!
>
>> In spite of almost a whole day spent reading HOWTO's and searching
>> Google et al, if I enter <ctrl>-v then the
>> 'delete' key is STILL COMES BACK WITH '^?' INSTEAD OF '[[3~' although
>> outside of X it works fine.
>
>Its meant to. Pointing out something that works correctly is not likely to
>get you any flames.
>
Don't! See here http://aterm.sourceforge.net/keyboard.html for
instance.
>
>> That I should even have to know such arcane crap in 2001 is a total
>> mystery to me.
>
>
>> </Examples>
>
>Ah yes, using html style tags will make the techies take you much more
>seriously.
>
Actually wanted it to look like XML ;-)
>
>
>
>Read the above comment about petty insults. Won't start any really long
>flame wars.
>
I thought this _was_ the correct forum for insults.
>
>
>> For all the 'holier than thou' attitude of so many Linux advocates,
>> Linux is simply 'spaghetti code' gone wild. Has no one in the Linux
>> community read Parnas (1972) "On the Criteria to be used Decom-posing
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>random hyphen-ation. I-ll ad-mit that this is a new one that I haven't
>seen be-fore. I'd keep on to this one.
>
>> Systems into Modules?" If so, then why are whole web sites devoted to
>> trying to help poor idi-ots like myself get the bloody 'delete' key to
>> delete the character to the right of the insertion cur-sor? Have you lot
>> never heard of encapsulation?
>>
>> If Linux was a half-decent system there would only be ONE place to set
>> key mappings, but oh no 'its sooo flexible, you can set the key mappings
>> in round about 10 to 20 different places', wow! That's really cool!
>
>
>> If a programmer of mine put such a 'solution' to me I would think
>> seriously of firing him/her.
>
>Why is every torll in a high up postiton?
>
Cos they get thing working instead of just mucking around all day!
>Well, I hope I've helped. Better luck next time. There's too many small
>insults and not enough content, really, but I like the random
>hyph-enation.
>
Hate to admit it but I used M$ Word... but at least I could CUT &
PASTE properly!!!
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Answer this if you can...
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 06:47:43 GMT
John Muir wrote:
> >Just use the rpm name.. this works for must cases or use MC to browse the
> >bin directory in the RPM.. Not very hard to do. If you use Gome or KDE apps
> >then they will have a menu entry just like in Windows.. See not that
> >difficult.. kids learn this after 5 minuttes on Linux
>
> This is simply not true. I recently installed Mozilla, StarOffice 5.2
> and Forte 1.0.2 and none of then adden a Gnome menu entry.
I installed star office and mozilla, and the menu entries
were added. same with unreal tournament and quake 3.
But regardless of whether was a menu entry, what
they said is right. You can start mozilla by typing
"mozilla", whether you can find it in the menu or not.
> Its laughable but I also find that the DOS program MC (Midnicht
> Commander) is one of the most productive tools on Linux!
I think you mean "mc", not "MC".
It's unclear why you call this a "dos program" but it was
written IIRC by Miguel De Icaza, star of "Antitrust".
There's no dos in it anywhere, but it does have
a graphical counterpart as well, called "gmc".
> Yes, why do I need to install yet another to get what should be an
> integral system-wide function - cut & paste.
Not sure what you mean by "install yet another", but as
the gentleman pointed out, the 2 button copy and paste
has been part of X11 for years.
jjs
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 06:49:19 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:968021$8ui$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Tom Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:967rqn$j9f$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Paul Colquhoun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:32:06 GMT, Chad Myers
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> |
> >> >> |"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >> |news:8LFh6.68$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >>
> >> >> |> The point is .NET is nothing new.
> >> >> |
> >> >> |Multiple language common runtime? Please point me to a URL where
> >> >> |I can see where this has been done in the past.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> UCSD p-code was mainly ( almost completely ) Pascal, but there were
> > other
> >> > languages.
> >> >> This is from the '70s/'80s, and I'm running from my own memory
here.
> >> >>
> >> >> The P-Code Museum
( http://www.threedee.com/jcm/psystem/index.html )
> > mentions
> >> >> other languages, but dosn't actually list any.
> >>
> >> > All of these are stretches. Essentially, there's really no one that
> >> > has done, or is doing what MS is doing with .NET. There have been
> >> > some similar attempts, but not completely. A completely
object-oriented
> >> > language indifferent common platform-independant runtime is .NET.
> >>
> >> The runtime will be part of its downfall, as it was with java.
> >>
> >> Building runtime environments for slews of different OSes is a very
> >> arduous and complex task; and by historical guide, it may not even
> >> be possible at this point in time.
> >>
> >> Nor is it actually nessesary. If microsoft (and sun for that matter)
> >> had a brain in their heads at all, they would remove the runtime layer
> >> (which causes nothing but instability and bloated slowness) and
introduce
> >> a "compile-time", one-time abstraction mechanism.
> >>
> >> In this way, one could grab a .NET application, and apon running it
for
> >> the first time, have it compiled into a platform specific binary with
> >> a nice microsoft compilation package (included with .NET of course).
> >> This way, microsoft would only have to worry about developing a
platform-
> >> specific compiler, rather than a platform specific runtime
environment,
> >> which by historical guide is much, much easier.
> >>
> >> This would grant speed, stability, and above all INNOVATION to the
> >> product.
> >>
> >> One could only hope.
>
> > That WOULD be quite nice. I'd sure hate to be the one to try and
implement
> > such a thing though.
>
> Why? The good folks who brought you GCC did it.
>
> Though they did it open source; such a thing would indeed be quite a job
> to do otherwise.
True to some extent. What I'd like to see implemented is the same system
also managing, reliably, transaction services across divergent platforms
and make such interoperability seamless. An adhered to, yet extensible,
platform-encompassing API being the glue that holds it all together.
------------------------------
From: John Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Answer this if you can...
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:49:03 +0100
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:34:06 -0500, Gregory Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>To sussecfully RPM something use the parameter -v for verbose. Example:
>#rpm -v somepackage.rpm. There are also package managers for KDE, Gnome, and
>they will work just about anywhere even if you don't have a certain window
>manager. As for copy and paste: select text anywhere with the right mouse
>button, and then click where you want to put it with the middle mouse
>button. If you have no middle mouse button, you may have 3button emulation
>by clicking both buttons.
>
This only works sometime.
>Now for philosophy.
>
>Windows is getting so user-friendly that it will soon run itself without any
>input from a user. All you have to do to install a program is pop in a cd.
>You often get little options, and a bloated "jack of all trades" kernel.
>Most windows users don't even know what a kernel is, nor can they tailor it.
>On the other hand, Linux is admittedly user hostile. You must really work
>hard to get it working for you. For some (compsci people and students) the
>reward for that hard work is often worth it. For the average user, the work
>put in and the results yielded just don't warrant use. Which raises a
>point: Is there a middle ground between suffocation by Windows and Linux
>vagueness? I have yet to experiment with Mac or BeOS, but what is really
>needed is something in between. Oops. I should shut up, before someone
>catches on to my get-rich-quick scheme and beats me to the billions.
>
Yes, good point. We need a new OS built on OO foundations!
------------------------------
From: Ian Pulsford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Threat: non-existant
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:57:30 +1000
Jan Johanson wrote:
>
> let me reply by simply quoting yourself back to yourself.
> "sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:966pdg$em5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Not one of you statements has said anything about Linux making inroads
> > at the enterprise Level.
>
> I have heard NOTHING about linux making gains anywhere past the frustrated
> hobbyist level...
Read more IT industry news then and less PC game mags.
--
"Dear someone you've never heard of,
how is so-and-so. Blah blah.
Yours truly, some bozo." - Homer Simpson
------------------------------
From: John Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Answer this if you can...
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:52:13 +0100
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:47:36 -0500, "David L. Johnson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>If the name of the program is "foobar" go to an open xterm window and type
>
>foobar &
>
>followed by the return key. Should work.
>
Only if PATH was updated.
>> Where is the new menu entry.
>
>You want a menu entry, add it. This IMO is better than having it appear
>whether you want it or not.
>
Why bother to install it if I don't want to actually use it then?
>> Nuffin' doing kid. Now for some REAL fun
>> 'find -i / -iname mozilla' ? and then work out if it's a binary or
>> script. If it's a script then './blahblah' ?
>
>Either way, type
>
>netscape &
>
>and, lo and behold.
>
But not mozilla.
>I gotta say RTFM. Cut and paste is terrible on Windows, and is a delight in
>X. Try highlighting text with the left mouse button. Then hie thee over to
>another program, one that allows you to insert text, and click with the center
>mouse button.
>
Only sometimes!
>> I can't get the delete key to delete the character to the RIGHT of the
>> insertion cursor in X.
>
>This can be configured, but you have to read the f*ing manual.
>
Just look here before you get too condesending:
http://aterm.sourceforge.net/keyboard.html
>> That I should even have to know such
>> arcane crap in 2001 is a total mystery to me.
>
>You don't.
>>
You'r wrong, I want to use Linux.
>
>Here. Create a file called .Xmodmap in your home directory. Put:
>
>keycode 22 = BackSpace
>keycode 107 = Delete
>
Tried it, don't work.
------------------------------
From: John Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Answer this if you can...
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:54:50 +0100
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 06:47:43 GMT, J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Its laughable but I also find that the DOS program MC (Midnicht
>> Commander) is one of the most productive tools on Linux!
>
>I think you mean "mc", not "MC".
Only unix needs this.
>It's unclear why you call this a "dos program" but it was
>written IIRC by Miguel De Icaza, star of "Antitrust".
>
Its a Linux clone of Norton Commander a DOS programm from the 80's.
------------------------------
From: John Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Answer this if you can...
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:52:53 +0100
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:52:38 GMT, "Matthew Gardiner"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>If you donot like Linux, don't use it, simple as that. If you don't like
>Windows, use another OS, like BeOS, QNX RTP or buy a Mac w/ MacOS X.
>
>Matthew Gardiner
Now lets not get silly here.
------------------------------
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