Linux-Advocacy Digest #376, Volume #32 Wed, 21 Feb 01 13:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Where is suse 7.1? ("surrender")
Re: How much do you *NEED*? (Donn Miller)
Re: How much do you *NEED*? ("Mike")
Re: Who said NT was stable ! (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Donald R. McGregor)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Donald R. McGregor)
Re: The Windows guy. ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Donald R. McGregor)
Re: Into the abyss... ("Edward Rosten")
Ooooopsss there goes another one. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Into the abyss... ("Masha Ku'Inanna")
Re: Into the abyss... ("Masha Ku'Inanna")
Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Peter Hayes)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "surrender" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Where is suse 7.1?
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:14:40 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"#KUNDAN KUMAR#" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote something like:
> Suse 7.1 was to be released on feb 12. Still now the website says, it
> will be available from mid-february? When is it going to be released?
I heard that it would be available for download before end-march, just
after some important linux expo, but I forgot which one.
--
Greets
surrender
------------------------------
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How much do you *NEED*?
Date: 21 Feb 2001 11:00:42 -0600
Masha Ku'Inanna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And no one is a "stupid shit" for getting the right tools for the right job.
> Windows has its place just as Linux has its place, and they both have their
> pros and cons over the other. It all depends on the job at hand and what
> needs to be done.
>From my point of view, I'd have to admit this as well. I have found that
Windows Media Player has worked much better than all of the unix players I
have tried. In fact, a lot of the video players for Linux people have been
raving about use Windows DLL's and a portion of the Wine source code tree.
So, those players still use a %'age of MS's code.
> Linux's license does force you to show your cards to the world, whereas the
> BSD license does not. Under Linux, you modify the code to suit your needs,
> but you must release the code back into the world. For BSD, you modify all
> you like, and are not required to give that code back to the community -- in
> fact you can patent it, and sell it as proprietary if you like. Or not.
> Again, each one has its pros and cons.
Good point. The GPL prevents companies from incorporating the Linux kernel
source into their own proprietary operating systems. This is good if the
company is "evil", like MS. OTOH, "good" companies like Apple can embrace
and extend BSD-licensed code as they wish for their own proprietary operating
systems. And this "good" company will shy away from Linux because of its
GPL'd code. So, FreeBSD may be a benefactor in this case, should Darwin have
some useful features specifically designed by Apple worth incorporating into
the FreeBSD tree. Well, I doubt it, but it's an example.
So, no License is perfect.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How much do you *NEED*?
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:11:03 GMT
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> How many more examples are going to have to appear and go by to
> convince you that Linux is the right choice for your business
> and personal needs?
One expects this to be followed by something like:
[Fade in to a tastefully appointed room, paneled in walnut, with leather
bound books in a full height bookcase. A gentleman, with full, dark,
slightly graying hair, dressed in a dark gray Burberry wool suit with a
white shirt and a muted dark blue tie faces the camera. In a calm voice, he
begins to speak.]
"Hi, I'm Charles Ebert. Are you stupid? Have you been injured by your own
stupidity? Are you unsure whether you should answer 'yes' or 'no' to these
questions? If so, I'm here to help.
Just answer these simple questions. When using a hammer, do you often hit
yourself? I don't mean your finger, I mean turning the hammer on your head
and bashing gaping holes in your skull until you pass out. Does that happen
to you?
When driving an automobile, do you get the gas and brake pedals confused? Do
you try to steer with the parking brake, and indicate turns with the
steering wheel? Have you appeared on 'America's Worst Drivers' more than
once?
When you last used a power saw, did you cut off a finger? Did you switch
hands and cut off another finger?
Do you have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time?
Are you confused by English, with all of its rules and funny spellings? Do
you know when you're getting your chain yanked, and do you often think your
getting you're chain yanked? Would you know the difference? Do apostrophes
make you cringe? Do you often see those funny periods with tails, and wonder
what they're for? Have you ever heard of a contraction? Can you form a
sentence without looking around to see if people are laughing, or worse,
trying to hide their guffaw?
Do people often look confused after you say something to them? Do they often
begin a reply with the words, 'Do you mean,' or, 'Are you trying to say...'?
Do people often tell you that something you just said is, 'just plain
stupid,' or, 'the stupidest thing I've ever heard'?
If you answered yes to these questions, you're not alone. I'm Charles Ebert,
and I'm just like you, except smarter. Please, contact me today and I'll let
you know how stupid you are, and how smart I am in comparison, using my
exclusive EberTIQ Test Method. The way it works is simple. I'll say many
things, and you respond by assigning each statement an intelligence level,
from 0 to 5, based on how intelligent you thought the statement was. Then,
I'll add up your responses. The lower the number, the lower your score. The
more statements I make, the higher my score. The ratio of your score to my
score is your relative intelligence compared to mine. There are many
intelligence tests, but there's only one EberTIQ stupidity test. You owe it
to yourself to find out more.
I'm Charles Ebert, and I can help. Call today. Visa, Mastercard, and
American Express accepted. Don't put it off, or deny it any longer. You're
stupid, and I can tell you just how stupid you are. That's (888) 555-1212.
Call now."
[Camera pulls back, toll free number splashes across the screen, gentleman
smiles and lowers his head to gaze thoughtfully into an open leather-bound
book in his hands. Barely visible as the screen fades to black is that book
is a hardbound "Diary" book from Barnes and Noble, with blank pages.]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: Who said NT was stable !
Date: 21 Feb 2001 17:12:21 GMT
On 21 Feb 2001 08:51:55 -0700, Craig Kelley wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Benjamin Stocker) writes:
>> If you paint a dental stick with new color, it's still the same: It breaks
>> apart as soon as you bend it too hard. Or in other words: This is not a
>> question about competence. Even the best admin can't make a poorly designed
>> system better.
>
>... unless it's open source. ;)
I think if it's poorly designed, your screwed even if it is open source.
The fact that it's open source makes it easier to tidy up glitches in
implementation but doesn't buy you much more than that.
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donald R. McGregor)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:17:09 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Note followups.
I
an Davey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>then why all of the bullet-riddled bodies in British morgues these days?
>
>Which bullet-riddled bodies are those? Don't forget, I actually live here. Can
>you provide some evidence that the number of bullet-riddled bodies has
>increased since the ban on hand guns? Should be easy for you to do if the
>facts are on your side.
http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4111096,00.html
Tony Thompson
Sunday December 31, 2000
The Observer
Gun crime in Britain is soaring to record levels: executions,
woundings and related incidents in the past year are set to be
the highest ever, an investigation by The Observer has revealed.
Preliminary figures show there have been more than 15,000 armed
offences during 2000, up by almost 10 per cent over last year.
The number of armed operations by police is also at a record level.
[...]
Manchester, notorious for its levels of gun crime in the early
Nineties, is also seeing a dramatic rise in such offences. In a
three-week period in September alone, seven people were shot,
including a 16-year-old murdered while riding his bike through
a park.
Although the use of firearms is a countrywide problem, it is most
acute in the capital. In the past eight weeks there have been more
than 35 reports of guns being fired illegally in London. The result:
five deaths and 12 serious woundings.
--
Don McGregor | "The cemetery is filled with indispensable men."
[EMAIL PROTECTED]| --DeGaulle
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donald R. McGregor)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:21:55 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Ian Davey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Note followups.
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> >This sort of claim is made by pro-gun advocates about every geographic
>>> >area where any gun control legislation has passed. Wasn't it Australia
>>Police move to tackle huge rise in gun crime
>>By Ian Burrell, Home Affairs Correspendent
>>
>>15 January 2001
>>
>>A national firearms database is to be established for the first time,
>>amid fears over record levels of gun crime.
>>
>
>This says nothing about the number increasing since the ban.
Actually, it does. See the "huge rise in gun crime" and
"record levels of gun crime?"
Also:
Tony Thompson
Sunday December 31, 2000
The Observer
Gun crime in Britain is soaring to record levels: executions,
woundings and related incidents in the past year are set to be
the highest ever, an investigation by The Observer has revealed.
Preliminary figures show there have been more than 15,000 armed
offences during 2000, up by almost 10 per cent over last year.
The number of armed operations by police is also at a record level.
[...]
Manchester, notorious for its levels of gun crime in the early
Nineties, is also seeing a dramatic rise in such offences. In a
three-week period in September alone, seven people were shot,
including a 16-year-old murdered while riding his bike through
a park.
Although the use of firearms is a countrywide problem, it is most
acute in the capital. In the past eight weeks there have been more
than 35 reports of guns being fired illegally in London. The result:
five deaths and 12 serious woundings.
> In fact if it
>wasn't for the ban this fact probably wouldn't have come to light at all.
There's an interesting technique: evidence that policy A isn't
working is evidence that we should do more of it.
--
Don McGregor | "The cemetery is filled with indispensable men."
[EMAIL PROTECTED]| --DeGaulle
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Windows guy.
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:27:25 +0000
In article <XcMk6.676$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Erik Funkenbusch"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:96hsg8$c9p$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > Pipes have been supported for years in DOS - I'm not sure when they
>> > were first implemented, but I'm sure I remember using pipes in DOS
>> > 2.0. Pipes are a pretty simple construct, so it's hard to think of
>> > why they wouldn't be supported (is there some other pipe, Aaron?).
>>
>> Incorrect. DOS has never supported pipes. It emulated pipes by putting
>> the pipe contents in to a temp file and then dumpunt the temp file to
>> the input of the next process. DOS could not do proper pipes, since it
>> was single tasking.
>
> "proper pipes"?
>
> The definition of a pipe is to divert the output of one program into the
> input of another. Multitasking is not a part of the definition.
Yes. Without multitasking, it can't do that properly.
If you do this under DOS
grep "foo" hugefile | head -10
dos will grep all of hugefile and then take the top 10 lines which is
very poor. Even better, if you do this:
program_that_will_never_finish | head -10
it won't work under DOS, so I stand by my assertion because the temp file
hack is a poor one which is not robust because it does not work under a
lot of circumstances where pipes can be very useful.
It does not directly pipe output. Think about the name pipe and think
about how it refers to pipes carrying water. If you pipe water from one
thing to another, you don't fill up a resevoit waiting for the first
process to finish, then pump the resevoir in to the second process.
-Ed
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donald R. McGregor)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:30:23 -0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Ian Davey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Note followups.
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>It merely emboldens criminals to use guns without fear of retaliation.
>
>Okay prove it then, list the number of UK (non-criminal) citizens shot by
>criminals with handguns since the ban.
"Preliminary figures show there have been more than 15,000 armed
offences during 2000, up by almost 10 per cent over last year.
The number of armed operations by police is also at a record level."
Murder is largely confined to the criminal class in the US as
well, often over drugs or gangs. Over half the murders in the
county I live in are usually attributed to gangs.
How do the vast majority of police
>officers manage to walk the streets without a gun of any kind?
Increasingly falling by the wayside. From the above article:
"In October, police in Nottingham began carrying handguns in hip
holsters while patrolling two notorious estates. The routine arming
of officers came in response to a spate of 14 shootings by criminals."
>The fact is there never has been a gun culture in the UK. Even when handguns
>were legal people didn't carry them around to defend themselves.
The UK has never been as violent as the US. The US non-gun murder
rate is far higher than the UK, too, and by about the same percentage.
Guns have nothing to do with it.
--
Don McGregor | "The cemetery is filled with indispensable men."
[EMAIL PROTECTED]| --DeGaulle
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Into the abyss...
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:30:13 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ian Pulsford"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Then what struck me about FreeBSD was that I get a beautiful, clean,
> stable installation of a core unix(-like) system, without strange
^^^^^^
BSD is UNIX.
-Ed
> package dependencies (they come later when I want to install some
> ports).
--
| u98ejr
| @
Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Ooooopsss there goes another one.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:56:55 GMT
Well it's not exactly gone yet, but it's well on the way.
http://dailynews.netscape.com/mynsnews/story.tmpl?table=n&cat=50300&id=200102211148000244539
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Into the abyss...
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:59:18 -0500
Reply-To: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > I get frustrated with linux and unix easily. they rely on archaic text
> > commands
>
> What's archaic about those commands?
Archaic, to me, in that I came from a GUI background, and point-and-click
your way into submission background. I think as I have mentioned later in
this post, there are a lot of Windows habits and expectations that I need to
unlearn (young Jedi). I am getting better, but I am in no way a "guru" or
even, in my opinion, advanced enough to be more than 50% confident in what I
am doing in most instances. For me some handholding is nice, even though I
am also trying to learn in a sink-or-swim manner.
But as I had said later, this is just an obstacle initially to someone
completely used to a GUI. I am not saying these 'archaic' commands are
wrong. Just takes getting used to. More easily for some than for others.
> > and generally are not the easiest environements to work on.
> > Man-pages remind me of a computer-geek version of Army Technical
Manuals.
>
> This is intended. Manual pages are reference material, not tutorials.
> They're not targeted at dummies. If to you everyone who isn't a dummie
> is a computer-geek... well, that'd be a pretty pathetic opinion.
Seems the vast majority of what is out there gives you either the 101
"dumb-ass" perspective, or the "expert" perspective. There seems to be
little by way of the middle-ground, but then, again, I can understand this
approach. The MAN pages are there to refer to, and the 101's try to get you
to the point where you should be able to look up things as needed.
But it is not effective for everyone willing to learn. UNIX as a whole is
famous for having a steep learning curve, as I had acknowledged, and i am
tenacious enough to keep trying and trying, and surprise myself what sank in
when i sit down to actually do something.
But, again, the approach is not effective for everyone.
> > The different linux distros are not always compatible with each other,
yet
> > they offer some handholding for a Windows escapee. But true to their
UNIX
> > roots, there is still the inevitable command prompt.
>
> Of course. Why should it be abandoned?
I never said they should be abandoned.
Actually, my favorite OS was the AmigaOS. Had a wonderful merging of the GUI
and command line. Neither one plaed emphasis over the other in importance,
and both were perfectly there to compliment the other.
In this context, I said that being true to UNIX lies the inevitable command
prompt. UNIX is pretty much synonymous with "command-prompt." What would
shock me is UNIX with out the command prompt.
--snipped--
> > Windows, on the other hand, is the product of a brilliant marketting
> > department who managed to completely convince the world that all you
have to
> > do is click, and "it just works." The workings of a computer can be so
> > effectively shielded from the average user, and the media is so
saturated
> > with the latest "industry buzzwords"
>
> This is one very important point!
Isn't it disgusting, in a way? Everywhere you go, 'experts' drag their
computers into tech-shops, insisting that a 'virus' is on their system
because they loaded a buggy driver. Or that tech-shops charge outrageous
prices for repairs, or just suggest that you 'run the restore cd,' making
you completely dependant on an OS install that is pristine, rather than
being able to dive in and try to tweak settings youeself because they've
been convinced that the computer "just works" out of the box. That is
ludicrous to assume, but because the industry has been saturated by words
like "ripping", "napster", "plug and play", "office suite", "mp3",
"hacking", "gigapixel" "3d textures", "service packs", "internet", "email",
"eBay", "upgrade", "virus", "firewall", "skins", "customizable" (this kills
me: the Rio 600 is customizable to show off your individuality with three
colored panels that S3 will gladly sell you), anything prefixed by "your" or
"my" (Your@ware, MyRio, etc) the general schmoe off the street is convinced
they now "need" a PC to keep up with "technology" but are so overwhelmed by
the notion of technology that they'd readily turn to whomever can boast
"ease of use" the loudest (AOL commercial -- "Just plug it in and ya go.."
Windows Terminology: "Plug and Play" -- give me a break, PC analog
microphones, VCRs and some refrigerators now slap "Plug and Play" on their
displays).
But this is good, as in time, inevitable frustration sinks in and they can
then be turned "like your Father before you, Young Jedi.."
*snickers*
------------------------------
From: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Into the abyss...
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:04:15 -0500
Reply-To: "Masha Ku'Inanna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Then what struck me about FreeBSD was that I get a beautiful, clean,
> > stable installation of a core unix(-like) system, without strange
> ^^^^^^
>
> BSD is UNIX.
>
> -Ed
Sure it is. I know it is. Most people familair with BSD and UNIX as a whole
know it is.
It was also acknowledged in that statement that some people prefer that it
not be called UNIX because of some silly trademark battle a few years back,
so they refer to the "-like" sufficx. Even FreeBSD shuns the direct
assertation that they're 'UNIX(tm)' but leaves that up to the user to
determine if that label makes that big of a difference.
It doesn't.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Microsoft says Linux threatens innovation
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:09:52 +0000
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > > How much do you want to bet that Microsoft NEVER bothers with
> > > doing true clean-room implementations.
> > >
> >
> > Why make a bet? You *know* M$ doesn't bother!
>
> damn you!
> you're gonna scare off all the suckers who would take that bet.
>
> >
Oh, i'm sure hte WinTrolls will still bet!
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:03:20 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:35:52 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donald R.
McGregor) wrote:
> The recent laws have had a huge effect on the number of legal
> handguns in ciruculation (there are none). They're all illegal
> now. Oddly, the gun crime rate keeps going up, so apparently
> the gun laws aren't having much of the desired effect any
> more now than they were in the 20's.
The recent laws in the UK were brought in as a result of Dunblane. If they
have resulted in fewer loner nutters like Hamilton getting guns then they
have succeeded in their purpose.
We will have to wait 10 or 15 years to see if there's another Hungerford or
Dunblane before pronouncing success.
Criminals will get guns whatever legislation you put in place - they're
criminals after all. If they all end up killing each other so much the
better.
Peter
--
In the 19th century surveyors measured the height of Everest
from 500 miles away in India.
This cannot be repeated today. Everest is no longer visible from
the survey location due to increased atmospheric pollution.
------------------------------
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