Linux-Advocacy Digest #670, Volume #32 Tue, 6 Mar 01 08:13:06 EST
Contents:
Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Why Open Source better be careful - The Microsoft Un-American (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: .NET is plain .NUTS (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: The GPL if you are curious. (mlw)
Re: GPL Like patents. (mlw)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:17:45 -0500
Bloody Viking wrote:
>
> . ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> : I can't see that there's anything inherently illegal OR immoral in
> : writing a virus. After all, a virus is simply a program that reproduces
> : itself and attempts to 'survive'. Destructive capabilities are added as
> : an afterthought, and they are the only thing that should be considered
> : illegal.
>
> Whether or not law has caught up with computering, it is wrong to
> intentionally code a virus as it's destructive code intended to be passed onto
> an unsuspecting user. Imagine an IE user clicking on a link with an Active-X
> thing that formats a hard drive and gives no warning but "baits" the link with
> "kewl links!" or similar. Anyone would agree that this is wrong, laws or not.
>
True. But I consider this all to be the moral equivalent of
drug-land gang wars, with occassional users becoming ill because
shipments were contaminated by rival factions employing moles or
other such chicanery.
> If I coded a video game that trashed the hard drive on purpose, say with a
> certain ending score and you downloaded it (a classic "Trojan") and trashed
> your drive, you wouldn't be happy. Indeed, if you could trace the source,
> you'd want to sue and/or prosecute me. Even worse, would be if I made the
> Trojan and intentionally downloaded some viri to add to it.
>
> Yes, a virus is a programme that reproduces, and some might even mutate to
> avoid Norton Antivirus. But liik at AIDS, a bio-virus. It does the same... and
> kills. But just as it would be wrong to develop a disease and unleash it, it's
> wrong to code and unleash a computer virus. There really isn't any way to
> rationalise coding viruses. Doesn't let Microsoft off the hook for making a
> non-immune OS, but you don't have to fall for the temptation.
>
> --
> FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
> The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
> The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:18:05 -0500
Bloody Viking wrote:
>
> . ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> : I can't see that there's anything inherently illegal OR immoral in
> : writing a virus. After all, a virus is simply a program that reproduces
> : itself and attempts to 'survive'. Destructive capabilities are added as
> : an afterthought, and they are the only thing that should be considered
> : illegal.
>
> Whether or not law has caught up with computering, it is wrong to
> intentionally code a virus as it's destructive code intended to be passed onto
> an unsuspecting user. Imagine an IE user clicking on a link with an Active-X
> thing that formats a hard drive and gives no warning but "baits" the link with
> "kewl links!" or similar. Anyone would agree that this is wrong, laws or not.
>
> If I coded a video game that trashed the hard drive on purpose, say with a
> certain ending score and you downloaded it (a classic "Trojan") and trashed
> your drive, you wouldn't be happy. Indeed, if you could trace the source,
> you'd want to sue and/or prosecute me. Even worse, would be if I made the
> Trojan and intentionally downloaded some viri to add to it.
>
> Yes, a virus is a programme that reproduces, and some might even mutate to
> avoid Norton Antivirus. But liik at AIDS, a bio-virus. It does the same... and
> kills. But just as it would be wrong to develop a disease and unleash it, it's
> wrong to code and unleash a computer virus. There really isn't any way to
> rationalise coding viruses. Doesn't let Microsoft off the hook for making a
> non-immune OS, but you don't have to fall for the temptation.
>
I have no compassion for drug addicts.
> --
> FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
> The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
> The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:19:22 -0500
"Donal K. Fellows" wrote:
>
> al wrote:
> > http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=20143
>
> What a remarkably unprofessional looking site.
What do you expect from an unabashed cheerleader for the largest
organized crime syndicate in the world.
> Donal.
> --
> Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -- If I teach this course thoroughly enough, none of you will attempt the exam
> questions on this topic, and I shall consider this to be a complete success.
> -- Arthur Norman
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Open Source better be careful - The Microsoft Un-American
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:23:52 -0500
Bloody Viking wrote:
>
> Aaron Kulkis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> : True...but GM, Ford, and Chrysler don't sell fuels, so they have
> : zero interest in that regard.
>
> This is true, to only a large extent. If fuel gets costly, people will start
> using transit and stop buying cars. If you look at the prices of the cars and
> insurance, the petrol looks pretty damn cheap compared to those monthly
> payments. At $2/gallon, it's still pretty cheap compared to $300/month for the
> car itself, let along the full coverage.
>
> At, say, $5/gallon, a car shopper will want to buy a car that has good fuel
> economy, and if you had a choice of paying $20,000 for either a conventional
> SUV or a petrol-electric car, you'll buy the latter. Certainly, the smart
> shopper would pick the petrol-electric becuse by the time petrol goes up to
> $5/gallon, it's becuse oil production worldwide maxed out and started its
> inevitable maddening decline.
>
> While car companies don't sell petrol, the industry is closely linked to the
> petroleum industry. After all, without fuel, cars become useless artifacts.
> That means car companies have to consider future fuel supplies when designing
> cars. Now, with the Honda Insight and Ford Prius petrol-electrics, you have to
> wonder why, given how SUVs sell like hotcakes.
On the other hand, if a better fuel source comes along, the automotive
industry would switch technology so fast it would make your head spin.
Look at how quickly the railroad locomotive manufacturers switched from
steam to electric and diesel-electric for passenger service.
>
> And the fact is that the concept has been around for DECADES in the form of
> the diesel-electric train locomotive. Why, oh, why, only NOW are car companies
> daring to introduce a car designed like miniature train engine? We are not
> talking rocket science here. The technology has been pushing and pulling
> commuter trains for decades. HELLO!!! It's obvious that car companies know
> that future fuel supplies will be limited. There is no other reason to design
> a car like a train engine to get hyper- fuel economy. The railroads have been
> buying the technology since the day it was invented.
>
> Oil production WILL max out - and soon. The car companies know it. THAT is why
> only now do you see petrol-electric cars on sale.
The hybrid vehicles are just as dependant upon petroleum as before.
They can only run on reserve electric power for short term. In the
long run, their primary benefit is similar to diesel-electrics in the
railroad industry....allowing the motor to run closer to optimum
speed at as much as possible.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: .NET is plain .NUTS
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:25:24 -0500
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> >> > Even books. You can scan them, run the bitmaps through optical
> >> > character recognition software, and completely copy the book
> >> > digitally with little chance of discovery (other than your own
> >> > popularity).
> >>
> >> But you then have to print it. Bear in mind that a 650M CD is about
> >> 50p, but to print a book without very specialised is quite expensive,
> >> and depending on the book, lower quality.
> >
> > 300-600 dpi laser printers is good for most books.
>
> Yep. If 300-600 dpi is suitable for a particular book, then that book is
> probably printed on very cheap paper, using a very cheap bulk printing
> machine, making the copy very expensive.
>
> If its an expensive book (eg one with very high quality colour plates),
> then nothing short of a top notch color laser printer would get you the
> same quality, unless you spent a fortune on glossy paper.
>
Barnes and Noble is now doing exactly that...because print-on-demand
for small circulation books is less costly than the production costs
of short-print runs..especially full-color stoff.
>
> >> It'll probably be cheaper to buy the book.
> >
> > true.
>
> -Ed
>
> --
> | Edward Rosten
> | u98ejr@
> This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
> | .ac.uk
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The GPL if you are curious.
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:34:16 -0500
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2001 06:28:22 GMT, Mike wrote:
> >
> >"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >GPL is only a few pages long. I suggest that anyone who says something like,
> >"GPL states that..." also publish the paragraph where it says "that". That
> >would end half the speculation.
>
> I more or less agree with this sentiment, though where interpretation is
> possible, I would also consider a quote from RMS as an authoritative
> source on the *intended* meaning.
This is something I really dislike. Mainly because it treated as authoritative
when it is not.
RMS is a smart guy. Like many smart guys, what he says usually has meaning the
spreads across multiple sentences, even paragraphs. When he is quoted, you
seldom see more than a sentence or two.
More over, what RMS says is not authoritative because he is many things, but a
legal document he is not.
The published GPL is very clear and very specific. When we debate GPL we must
debate the license not what anyone says about the license.
--
I'm not offering myself as an example; every life evolves by its own laws.
========================
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GPL Like patents.
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:58:20 -0500
"Donal K. Fellows" wrote:
>
> I think I would like to introduce a specific example at this point. The
> Tcl/Tk community are working on developing distributions of Tcl and Tk
> that include a set of common and useful extensions, and one of them is
> tclreadline which is an extension to interface the readline library to
> Tcl. Tcl and Tk are both BSD-licensed, and readline (and presumably
> tclreadline too) is GPL. And so, such a merger of support is impossible
> since there is no way that we are about to change the license for Tcl and
> Tk just so that we can add K3WL line-editing support[*], given that nobody
> needs such a thing for Tcl to still be perfectly usable. Furthermore,
> it is my distinct belief that the USAGE file distributed with the 4.1
> release of readline supports my position, as does section 3 of the GPL.
> (FYI, Readline 4.1 has 21769 lines of source code, Tcl 8.4a2 has 178311
> lines of C source, and Tk 8.4a2 has 201980 lines of C source. Readline
> would form approximately 5% of the aggregate, after allowing for extra
> glueing code...)
>
> GPL-ed code is open (anyone can read and modify the source) but not free
> (since it cannot be combined with software available under the BSD license
> in the manner described, and I've never seen *anyone* suggest that the
> BSD license makes code non-open or non-free.) Kindly stop spreading FUD
> and propaganda, mlw...
I have spread no FUD or propaganda.
I don't like the BSD license because someone can co-opt my code and limit my
access to changes. I think this is wrong, and that is why I would only release
code as GPL.
I have not read the readline license, if it is different that the GPL license
located at http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html then it is outside of this
discussion.
Again, not knowing where readline is different, I would say that the following
line protects you: "If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from
the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in
themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections
when you distribute them as separate works."
Make it a separate library, and everything should be OK. If you want to
INCORPORATE readline into your code, well, then you are in violation.
If you don't like it, don't use readline.
--
I'm not offering myself as an example; every life evolves by its own laws.
========================
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
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