Linux-Advocacy Digest #919, Volume #32 Tue, 20 Mar 01 07:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Selling to the masses (GreyCloud)
Re: Virus plague causes charity to consider Linux (GreyCloud)
Re: Linux @ $19.95 per month (Nick Condon)
[Help]About install redhat6.2 in alpha server (mgb)
Re: Seeking Comparison of Solaris & Linux (Stuart Krivis)
Re: What is user friendly? ("green")
Re: What is user friendly? ("green")
Re: What is user friendly? ("green")
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software (Jeffrey Siegal)
Re: What is user friendly? (Anonymous)
Re: What is user friendly? (Anonymous)
Re: What is user friendly? (Anonymous)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Selling to the masses
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 01:39:56 -0800
Rex Ballard wrote:
>
> Andy Walker wrote:
> >
> > The main thing holding back Linux from the masses is not the O.S. but
> > the sad socially inadequate people who critisise anyone or anything who have
> > problems learning how to use it.
>
> There is some truth to this. Many Linux users are very frustrated with
> the
> resistance that comes from lack of information. There are many
> executives and
> IT managers who have never even bothered to install Linux, or even spend
> time
> in front of a properly configured Linux system, and yet they will choose
> to spend
> 10 times the money for Microsoft instead of Linux.
>
> One of the biggest problems is that there are still no Linux systems
> available
> at CompUSA or any other retail outlet. You can order a Thinkpad or Dell
> Demension
> or any number of other computers that have been certified to be Linux
> compatible,
> yet you can't go to the web site and order a system preinstalled with
> Linux.
You can now... HPs' site sells preconfigured systems with Linux
installed. Its RH6.2.
There are also some obscure links that eventually lead to drivers for
winmodems for use in linux. Another site lists which printers are fully
useable under linux and which ones are door stops.
> You can't order a dual-boot system, you can't order a system with
> Win4Lin that
> will run Linux and Windows concurrently on the same machine. You can't
> even
> order a CD custom configured by the manufacturer - for your computer.
>
> I always find it a bit frustrating to see an IT manager, VP, or even a
> CIO who
> has never even bothered to have a real-world evaluation of Linux, and
> procedes
> to dismiss it "out of hand". I've seen IT departments spend over 1
> million to
> evaluate commercial products and refuse to even consider an evaluation
> of Apache,
> mod_perl, php, zope, or any of the other widely used Open Source
> Linux-based tools.
>
> What is truly astonishing is that there are IT executives, CTOs and
> CIOs, who have
> absolutely no hands-on experience with ANY flavor of UNIX who claim to
> be qualified
> to make corporate IT architecture and infrastructure decisions. It's
> like saying
> you understand MIS when you have absolutely no CICS, MVS, or VM/CMS
> exposure.
>
> > Perhaps it's a deep seated complex that causes these people to resent
> > anyone else joining their exclusive little club, but the only ones they
> > really hurt are themselves. Their behavior only puts off others and
> > consequently software companies from supporting Linux.
>
> Actually, it's a fundamental characteristic of human nature. When you
> do the extra
> work, make the extra effort, and provide an extraordinarily
> cost-effective solution
> that consistently exceeds expectations, and you are overruled by someone
> who is more
> interested it protecting his stock portfolio holdings in Microsoft than
> he or she is
> committed to the earnings report of his own corporation, you are
> naturally upset.
> It's like working 60 hours/week from the time you were 12 years old to
> be one of
> the top professionals in your industry only to have you ex-wife and her
> boy-friend
> collecting half your after-tax income after the Feds and States have
> taken their 50%.
> You work very hard for 20 years only to have the leeches and looters
> suck away 80% for
> drugs, sex, and sloth.
>
> > The normal people amongst us try and help other people progress their
> > knowledge of Linux but there are sadly far too many who just dedicate their
> > lives to rudeness and attempt to put others off.
>
> You have a point. Telling some overpaid 3-piece suit who thinks Access
> should be
> the enterprise database standard and collects more income from vendors
> and stock
> options then he will ever earn from honest labor that he's ignorant,
> uninformed,
> too lazy to even make the effort to gather the information to make an
> informed
> decision, and questioning his qualifications as an IT executive is not a
> wise
> career move.
>
> Of course, the day eventually comes when his boss, the CEO, the CFO, or
> another top
> executive DOES do the proper research. They hear that Linux might save
> them 20%,
> discover they can save as much as 90%, and suddenly you have Windows
> Gurus having
> their heads handed to them on a platter. Some are even having their
> finances
> investigated and are at risk of criminal charges.
>
> > Maybe it all stems from being bullied at school for being nerds or
> > something....
>
> This also might be a part of it. I remember one VP of IT whose
> backgound included being
> captain of the football team, president of his fraternity, and marginal
> knowledge of
> Microsoft Office. He suggested that we use Windows 3.11 as our web
> server, that we used
> Windows 3.51 to replace our mainframe, and that we use Windows 95 to
> replace our UNIX
> systems. In 20/20 hindsight these reccomendations seem absurd. But in
> each case, he
> managed to find some stupid sucker who would sign the reccomendation in
> exchange for
> a promotion, and would take the heat for the stupid decision. I've been
> offered two
> "Gallows Jobs", which I left within weeks of realizing the nature of the
> job. They
> love to get UNIX gurus who they can threaten into signing a Windows
> reccomendation.
> They get benifits from Microsoft, they pass the buck to the UNIX guru
> (who did know better
> and has probably left smoking guns all over the place, but his PC will
> be erased 10
> minutes after his last day.
>
> --
> Rex Ballard
> It Architect
> http://www.open4success.com
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Virus plague causes charity to consider Linux
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 01:46:30 -0800
"Bobby D. Bryant" wrote:
>
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> > My comment was on your comment "Another one bites the dust!" which seems to
> > be saying that the switch actually happened.
>
> It's a well known fact that keeping your head in the sand is the best way to
> keep the world from changing around you.
>
> Bobby Bryant
> Austin, Texas
The trouble with keeping ones head in the sand is that you can't see who
is sneaking up you!! :-))
--
V
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Condon)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux @ $19.95 per month
Date: 20 Mar 2001 09:46:46 GMT
Jan Johanson wrote:
>
>"Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Jon Johanson wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.redhat.com/products/network/service_changes.html
>> >
>> >I guess this is where it'll be going... can't afford to keep leaking
>> >money out of every oriface forever...
>> >
>> >So, this is like paying $19.95 per month to use Windows Update - MS
>> >updates have been, are and will always be free.
>>
>> How very naive.
>
>Oh really? Your crystal ball shiny and new?
Microsoft is desperate to get a slice of the pay-by-subscription cake.
You're not paying for Windowsa Update at the moment but it's in the post.
Here's just one example just from today's news.
Pay-to-Play: Microsoft erects .NET tollgate
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/17709.html
> How did predicting red hat's stock prices look in that ball?
Fine. I've been avoiding *all* tech stocks for well over a year, and I've
been advising everyone I knew to do the same.
--
Nick
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mgb)
Subject: [Help]About install redhat6.2 in alpha server
Date: 20 Mar 2001 08:58:34 GMT
I got two Digital alpha server800.
When I try to install redhat.....
>>>b dka400
then, it can't boot from my BootCD(Zoot alpha)
Can u help me?
==========================================================
LinuxFab :http://linuxfab.cx
CLDP :http://www.linux.org.tw/CLDP/
StudyArea :http://ftp.nchu.edu.tw/study_area/linux/linuxfr.htm
FreeBSD :http://www.enctc.edu.tw/other/freebsd.htm
--
[1;32m¡° Origin: [33mºÓ¸Û¸ê°T [37m<bbs.cynix.com.tw> [m
[1;31m¡» From: [36mh130-210-243-146.taiyu.com.tw[m
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stuart Krivis)
Subject: Re: Seeking Comparison of Solaris & Linux
Date: 20 Mar 2001 06:06:24 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:44:11 -0500, Glenn Catlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Where I work we use Solaris in production, but we recently bought a Dell
>host with Red Hat Linux. One of our seasoned Solaris folk quickly
>turned her nose up after a couple of her first command-lines at the
>Linux host failed. I want Linux is succeed in my office, but I need a
>book or something to demonstrate the differences/similarities between
>the two flavors. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Your "seasoned" Solaris person is simply too limited in her experience,
and you can tell her I said so.
sgk@poof sgk]$uname -a
SunOS poof.apk.net 5.8 Generic_108528-01 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-1
Yep, I use Solaris too. We're mainly a Sun shop. But we also use Linux
and FreeBSD.
Maybe I just don't have the "Right Stuff," but I sure couldn't tell the
quality of a unix flavor by typing a couple of commands.
You should really concentrate on using Linux or Solaris where each makes
the most sense.
An intranet web server is usually a good place for Linux. It also makes
a dandy desktop if you're not doing CAD or anything like that. A FAX
server is also a place for Linux.
Huge Oracle servers with all the goodies? Solaris. Into iPlanet
products? Solaris again. Notes and Domino also like Solaris.
The key thing is to evaluate each and use each where it is best for your
business. Turning your nose up and being an OS snob simply means that
you have some agenda of your own.
Having said all that, I kind of turn my nose up at RedHat too. :-) I
prefer Debian for production use.
--
Stuart Krivis
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: What is user friendly?
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:51:31 +1000
>
> Which really sucks if you own a Pentium III, doesn't it....
no one had a pIII at that time. but it was as I recall optimised for a p pro
so it dosn't suck as much as running it on a 486.
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What is user friendly?
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:57:44 +1000
I found OS/2 on my particular hard ware (a 486 I was willing to try it on.)
un predictable, got it to install by fluke 1 time out of 50 since im
persistant.
two slow OS/2 warp with java and multimedia against my will.
"Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Barry Manilow wrote:
> >
> > > > > > >> > > Anonymous wrote:
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > amiga: dead
> >
> > Oh not really. Anyway, the Amiga OS is still one of the best OS's
> > ever made. Is there yet anything that has surpassed it? QNX?
> >
> > > > > > >> > beos: fringe
> >
> > It is an excellent OS and much better than any MS OS. The latest BeOS
> > Personal Edition got 1 million downloads in its first month. Of
> > course, you are right, nobody uses it.
> >
> > > > > > >> > mac: fringe
> >
> > Hmmm. Mercedes Benz - fringe. Think I will go with the Gremlin
> > instead. ;)
> >
> > > > > > >> > os2: dead
> >
> > http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~meile/all.html
> >
> > Are you sure now?
> >
>
> FWIW, the list you provided, although impressive, is far from being
> exhaustive. Just because of casual information, I know of a couple of
> Italian banks not mentioned in the list, but larger than other listed,
> using OS/2. I also happen to know that since some time B+H Germany is
> shipping its inserters equipped with a PC running OS/2, and they ship
> quite a number each month. If a casual observer, with casual interest,
> can find important items missing, I must presume that the complete list
> of large users should be many times larger than that.
>
> > > > > > >> > next: dead
> >
> > Ok. Still better than any MS OS tho. And one of the most awesome
> > OS's ever made.
> > --
> > Bob
> > Being flamed? Don't know why? Take the Flame Questionnaire(TM)
> > today!
> > Why do you think you are being flamed?
> > [ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
> > [ ] You started an off-topic thread
> > [ ] You posted something totally uninteresting
> > [ ] People don't like your tone of voice
> > [ ] Other (describe)
> > [ ] None of the above
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What is user friendly?
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:54:40 +1000
unfortunatly as I said I only got compleate freezes.
Blue screen of pain a few times.
(the screen telling you to put the disk with some serial number in disk
drive)
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Coralie Naumann wrote:
> >
> > "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:994h97$7jv$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > : "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > :
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]..
> > .
> > : > Anonymous wrote:
> > : > >
> > : > > LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > : > > > Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > : > > >
> > : > > > >aaron wrote:
> > : > > > >> Anonymous wrote:
> > : > > > >> >
> > : > > > >> > aaron wrote:
> > : > > > >> > > Anonymous wrote:
> > : > > > >> > > >
> > : > > > >> > > > aaron wrote:
> > : > > > >> > > > > If you were to follow around one IQ-100 person all
> > day, you
> > : would
> > : > > > >> > > > > be appalled by the vast number of incredibly stupid
> > things
> > : they do
> > : > > > >> > > > > in the course of a day, and how many completely
> > fucking
> > : obvious
> > : > > > >> > > > > connections they miss, how many winning opportunities
> > they
> > : pass
> > : > > > >> > > > > up (because they either don't understand them, or
> > they fail
> > : to
> > : > > > >> > > > > even recognize that the opportunity exists in the
> > first
> > : place).
> > : > > > >> > > >
> > : > > > >> > > > now you know why i usually don't read your messages
> > : > > > >> > > > jackie 'anakin' tokeman
> > : > > > >> > > >
> > : > > > >> > > > p.s. windows is a pretty cool operating system
> > : > > > >> > > >
> > : > > > >> > >
> > : > > > >> > > Only in comparison to DOS.
> > : > > > >> > >
> > : > > > >> > > Compared to anything else, Windows is comparable to a
> > Formula-1
> > : body
> > : > > > >> > > slapped on top of a Ford Pinto with a sand-injection oil
> > system
> > : > > > >> > > and water-contaminated brake-lines.
> > : > > > >> >
> > : > > > >> > amiga: dead
> > : > > > >> > beos: fringe
> > : > > > >> > mac: fringe
> > : > > > >> > os2: dead
> > : > > > >> > next: dead
> > : > > > >> > unix: user hostile
> > : > > > >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > : > > > >> Microsoft propaganda.
> > : > > > >
> > : > > > >no, personal experience.
> > : > > > >a generally impassable learning curve = user hostile.
> > : > > > >i was using windows to get work done ten minutes after
> > installation.
> > : > > > >u can't touch this
> > : > > >
> > : > > > Configuring Windows is my forte. I have been
> > installing/reinstalling
> > : > > > Windows Millennium for the last three days. I expect to have a
> > well
> > : > > > done installation within a week. I guess my idea of
> > "installation" is
> > : > > > different than most folks. Mine has to look good and be as
> > efficient
> > : > > > as possible (making Windows more nearly efficient is a Herculean
> > : > > > task).
> > : > >
> > : > > define efficient. i define efficient as plug and play. if it ain't
> > fast
> > : > > enough for what i want to do i just buy a faster machine.
> > : > >
> > : > > > Being done in ten minutes is unbelievable.
> > : > >
> > : > > installers are cool.
> > : > > i think it took another ten minutes to get office up and running.
> > : > > connecting to the internet was trickier. that took about a half an
> > hour
> > : > > between typing the configuration stuff (news server, mail server,
> > etc)
> > : and
> > : > > making the obligatory phone call to my perverted isp to resolve a
> > few
> > : > > issues on thier end.
> > : > > adding new peripherals is pretty simple too. what with windows
> > being
> > : > > damn near universally supported and all.
> > : > > i really don't see what your beef is.
> > : > > jackie 'anakin' tokeman
> > : > >
> > : > > men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than
> > ruin,
> > : > > more even than death
> > : > > - bertrand russell
> > : >
> > : > You must like the color blue very much.
> > : > I don't use windows because even tho the apps are nice, and you try
> > to
> > : > say you want to get some work done, I don't see how you could get
> > any
> > : > work done when you have to fight lock-ups and BSODs all day long.
> > :
> > : BSOD must be computer specific.
> >
> > i think it is specific to machines with shared
> > memory for graphics and less than 48mb ram
> > overall.
> >
>
> Blue Screen Of Death.
>
>
> As a Windows user, I'm sure you're FAR more familiar with it than
> you wish to be.
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Jeffrey Siegal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 03:30:54 -0800
Les Mikesell wrote:
> There is no reason to associate the success of Linux with anything
> in the GPL, particularly since Linus has made it clear that the
> kernel can be extended through the module interface without
> creating a derived work on the other side of the interface.
No it can't, really. The COPYING file that comes with the kernel only
clarifies that the GPL does not apply to user programs, and does not
specifically mention modules:
NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover user programs that use kernel
services by normal system calls - this is merely considered normal use
of the kernel, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work".
As for modules, there has been a de facto exception made for only for
*driver* modules which use the existing driver interfaces. Not too long
ago there was a discussion on lk about this very issue and Linus made it
clear that modules could *not* in general be used to circumvent the GPL
as you suggest.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 04:32:19 -0700
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What is user friendly?
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,soc.singles
aaron wrote:
> > I'm not saying this is the whole problem, just part of it. And, given
> > the previous excuse, 5 years (its actually more like 3 for the solid
> > Linux environment that runs X-Windows) is not that long in the big IT
> > departments.
>
> Then why did M$ try to imply that Lose98 makes Lose95 obsolete,
> and now Lose2000 and LoseME make Lose98 obsolete?
because they want to make lots of money.
jackie 'anakin' tokeman
well duh
men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
more even than death
- bertrand russell
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 04:35:11 -0700
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What is user friendly?
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,soc.singles
aaron wrote:
> Quantum Leaper wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Shades wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Unix has half a dozen GUI's that are so good that Mafia$oft
> > > > > copied (in their own, usual, less-than-elegant way) as much of
> > > > > this functionality as they could.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now....if Unix is supposedly soooooooooo difficult to use, then
> > > > > please explain why Mafia$oft is copying Unix ON THE BASIS OF
> > > > > EASE OF USE.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I do not understand this statement. Where is MS copying Unix on ease of
> > > > use? All the newest GUI's I have seen on Linux look a lot like
> > something
> > > > I have seen before.
> > >
> > > Ah..more like what you've seen before were copies of Unix GUI's already
> > > in existance. For example, the Windows2000 GUI is a (faulty)
> > implementation
> > > of the unix/linux-land Enlightenment GUI.
> > >
> > I remember the Mac users were saying MS copied Mac with Windows 95, but
> > after I talked with alot of my friends who have used alot of different OSs,
> > included Unix. The general feeling is MS copies EVERYONE but only tried to
> > take the best parts. BTW you can run Enlightenment (clone) on NT4 as an
> > explorer replacement, might ever be available for 2K.
>
> M$ gives new meaning to the phrase "not invented here"...as there
> is not a single feature of an M$ platform which was invented by
> Microsoft.
who cares?
jackie 'anakin' tokeman
men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
more even than death
- bertrand russell
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 04:59:38 -0700
From: Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What is user friendly?
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,soc.singles
aaron wrote:
> Quantum Leaper wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Shades wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You obviously haven't worked on any HP, Sun, or SGI machines with
> > > > > version 1990 or later versions of Unix.
> > > > >
> > > > > The learning curve for these systems is SHALLOWER than windows.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well then I suppose Sun/HP and SGI are going to be winning the desktop
> > > > anyday? Hmm?
> > >
> > > In the same way that the gasoline engine ripped the guts out of
> > > steam-powered automobile manufacturers.
> > >
> > The reason is gasoline engines are alot better than a steam power auto.
>
> And likewise, Linux is a FAR better desktop OS than anything sold
> by Microsoft
yet as far as the vast majority of desktop users are concerned they can't
give it away.
wuzzapwiddat k?
jackie 'anakin' tokeman
men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
more even than death
- bertrand russell
------------------------------
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Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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