Linux-Advocacy Digest #290, Volume #33 Mon, 2 Apr 01 17:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Has Linux anything to offer ? (GreyCloud)
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software (Isaac)
Re: Communism (GreyCloud)
Re: Communism (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Java, the "Dot-Com" Language? (GreyCloud)
Re: Java, the "Dot-Com" Language? (GreyCloud)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 16:10:37 -0400
Dana wrote:
>
> Scott Erb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > Dana wrote:
> > >
> > > No Erb, you are the one that is wrong. We are a constitutional republic.
> We
> > > are not a liberal democracy, that form of socialism
> >
> > No, you're wrong.
>
> No erb, you are wrong. You fail to realize what the modern incarnation of
> the term liberal is. The modern liberal is not a classical liberal like
> Locke, Hobbs. Modern liberals are socialists. That is why there is such a
> negative feeling towards the term liberal democracy. That is practiced in
> Europe, and it is socialism.
>
> Liberal Democracy means a Democratic Republic based
> > on liberal principles.
>
> It is not based on liberal principles, it is based on socialism
> It is not liberal in the sense of classical liberalism.
>
> Ideological liberalism is a belief in limited
> > government and a claim that humans have the inherent right of life,
> > liberty and property, based on the work of among others, John Locke.
> > Liberalism is an ideological opponent of socialism.
>
> And a liberal democracy is socialism, just look at Europe.
> >
> > Classical liberalism saw a very, very limited government (Milton
> > Friedman considers himself a classical liberal), "new" liberalism
> > associated with developments in Britain and thinkers like John Stuart
> > Mill argues that to have real liberty and equal opportunity the state
> > must institute some kind of social welfare programs. Both are at base
> > ideologically liberal, socialism is something else.
>
> When the state gets involved with social welfare programs, you have
> socialism, which leads to fascism once the state gets involved in the means
> of production/controls industry.
> >
> > > is found in Europe in
> > > countries like Germany. And our federalism is not Germany's >federalism.
> >
> > Germany in some ways has a stronger federalism than ours,
> Socialism is socialism.
> their states
> > choose who serves in their upper house, much like the US Senate was
> > chosen before direct popular vote to the Senate was ratified.
>
> Which was a mistake.
> >
> > Dana, your ignorance of the basics here shows that perhaps you need to
> > do some reading on this. I'll later on post a set of books you could
> > start with; at this point, you are in over your head.
>
> No erb, it is you who is showing ignorance/dishonesty. You are a socialist
> and you have claimed the title liberal, but you are not liberal in the
> fashion of Locke.
>
> We go over this with you a couple of times a year. And each time you are
> proven wrong. And you wonder why so called instructers like you get no
> respect. Well we all you teach is revision and some misguided facts, you
> deserve no respect. All you need to do is be honest. A liberal democracy is
> socialism.
I wonder how Scott Erb would feel if he gets his wish of an all-powerful
government, and along the way, he gets carted off to some gulag....
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Has Linux anything to offer ?
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:17:21 -0700
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> > And it *was* very tempting to select the name of my printer from
> > the drop-down list, which would have been *wrong*. I believe I
> > would have done it if Pete hadn't posted his story.
>
> Strange. I had to select "Epson 640" in order to make it print. Why is
> that wrong?
>
That's the problem of that particular distro. Under Solaris I found out
that I had to set up a print filter which commands ghostscript what
printer you are using and other parameters. Which Epson do you have??
Look up the ghostview docs. I found a section that describes in detail
the handling of Epson printers. Info only.
> Incidentally, since I switched to SuSE 7.1, The Gimp has been printing
> just fine. No red lines and everything is aligned correctly on A4.
>
> --
> ---
> Pete Goodwin
> All your no fly zone are belong to us
> My opinions are my own
--
V
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Isaac)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 20:17:48 GMT
On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 19:34:48 GMT, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Said Jeffrey Siegal in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sun, 01 Apr 2001
>>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>>> but using this trick he has convinced himself
>>> that time travel has a bearing on copyright law.
>>
>>Never mind. Sorry for barging in.
>
>No, please, barge in more often. I didn't mean to offend you, I was
>just explaining the confusion. Believe me, this is not an exclusive
>conversation; if it were only me and Les, neither of us would bother,
>for sure.
I think your characterization of the argument as being about time travel
is a gross misrepresentation. The real point is that since the statute
defines derivative works as being based on one or more pre-existing works,
a program by definition cannot be derivative of a given library if it exists
before the library is even written.
Apparently you don't believe it to be possible to write such a program,
but most others know better. For example I can write a program that can
use currently existing gimp plug-ins. Assuming I write my program
correctly, it could also use gpl'd plug-ins that have yet to be written.
Isaac
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:32:06 -0700
Beth wrote:
>
> People, people...give up the "party line" BS and face facts:
>
> ALL political systems are crap.
>
> Communism is crap.
> Capitalism is crap.
>
> To badly paraphrase Churchill, "Democracy is crap but it's the best we've
> thought up so far"...
>
> I mean, if you want to get your kicks from needlessly arguing back and forth
> about "lefties" and "facists" then feel free but you'll get nowhere
> fast...what you think all the political thinkers since the dawn of time have
> been doing? This argument: "selfishness" vs. "altruism", me vs. you,
> blah-blah-blah...is the oldest thing mankind has fought over...
>
> It's interesting that someone pointed out the very close parallels between
> Hitler (far, far right) and Stalin (far left)...don't you get it? Both ideas
> at their extremes are more or less identical...they are BOTH CRAP...
>
> Also, note that captialistic countries were/aren't/won't be purely
> capitalistic and communistic countries were/aren't/won't be purely
> communistic...they are ideals that cannot be physically reached...and, if
> they were, then BOTH would collapse...
>
> For instance, in a pure capitalistic environment, then an individual would
> be striving for monopoly...it's the ideal state that a capitalist can aim
> for...BUT, as every capitalistic country knows, you CAN'T allow monopoly
> because, ironically, it's a communist dictatorship you're aiming for in the
> ideal...
>
> Let me just re-iterate: THEY ARE *ALL* CRAP...
>
> Beth :)
I wonder if there were a way to remove money from the system... a
money-less system.
It seems that money is always at the bottom of any political heap. I
don't know of any money-less systems.
--
V
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 20:50:21 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, T. Max Devlin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Mon, 02 Apr 2001 03:41:06 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Said The Ghost In The Machine in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 02 Apr
>>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, T. Max Devlin
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote
>>on Sun, 01 Apr 2001 17:18:29 GMT
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>Said Aaron R. Kulkis in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 01 Apr 2001
>>>>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Said Aaron R. Kulkis in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sat, 31 Mar 2001
>>>>> [...]
>>>>> >Fascists kill the poor first.
>>>>> >Communists kill the rich first.
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile, Aaron concentrates on anyone who disagrees with him, rich or
>>>>> poor.
>>>>
>>>>No. Only those who lie.
>>>>
>>>>Disagreement is ok, as long as you don't tell lies in the process.
>>>
>>>I've been here for years; I've yet to see a single person you disagree
>>>with that you do not eventually insist is lying.
>>>
>>>>> >In fascism, industry "owns" the government.
>>>>> >In Communism, the government "owns" industry.
>>>>>
>>>>> Amazingly clueless.
>>>> ^^^^^^^^
>>>>
>>>>You misspelled "accurate"
>>> ^^^^^^^^
>>>You misspelled "clueless"
>>
>>You both have misspelled "cogent, logical argument". :-)
>>
>>(Side note: as I understand it, communism in its pure form is
>>an economic system, always (at least, when done at the country level)
>>implemented by some sort of authoritarian rule as it is not compatible
>>with the "natural human state" of being greedy -- or, as a friend of
>>mine once put it, "having enlightened self-interest",
>>which sounds better and is more accurate.)
>
>Well, that's the problem. For a country to be "communist", "communism"
>needs to be defined as a political system or it becomes a
>self-conflicted concept. You can't run a country with capitalism,
>regardless of how important capitalism is to running a country. Your
>point is valid, as communism is often seen as a social philosophy
>indicating an economic model (socialism), and whether a communist or
>socialist country uses one or the other label is relatively meaningless.
Agreed, from an operational standpoint. It'll be interesting to see
how the Chinese experiment holds out (they're trying for the combination
of an authoritarian government and a capitalist economy, apparently), but
it's clear that communism and authoritarianism/socialism track very
closely in actual implementations.
>
>But I was trying to illuminate, by simply pointing it out, that for
>Aaron to berate both Marx, who was simply a philosopher, and the USSR,
>simply because both were communist, is to indicate that certain thoughts
>are not aloud to be thought. This seems to me to ironically mirror
Or maybe not allowed to be expressed aloud. :-)
>Marx's own work, of course, and makes clear that Kulkis is about as
>close to a fascist as you can get and still live a responsible life.
>
>I do think its just playing with fire giving him a gun, of course. But
>only as a military person; as a private citizen, I'm afraid he should be
>as free to own a firearm as any other person. Now isn't that a scary
>idea?
No more than some of the others I can think of, admittedly. If a
country has to protect itself from its own citizenry, it will have
some nasty problems. I do not buy into the "let's get the guns off
the street" arguments of HCI, although I'm not sure how to reduce
the carnage at this time (ideally, the citizenry would shoot them
dead, or threaten to, and they'd think twice about shooting their
rivals -- of course, the gangsters might also shoot the citizenry,
but then other citizenry might step in!).
It has already been noted elsewhere that Hitler disarmed
the citizenry first. I think the US government hasn't quite gone
that far, but it's possible we're being seduced into giving up
a primary line of defense against a tyrannical organization.
Paranoid? Perhaps. But "it can't happen here" can happen here.
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 56d:23h:10m actually running Linux.
Microsoft. When it absolutely, positively has to act weird.
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Java, the "Dot-Com" Language?
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:48:19 -0700
Chad Everett wrote:
>
> On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 23:31:30 +1100, Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >gbp wrote:
> >>
> >> >Really? Which promises does Linux deliver on that Solaris on Sun
> >> >hardware doesn't?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Its very good and its cheaper!!
> >>
> >> There is NO license fee. This may not be a big deal for your
> >> organization but for many thats a great advantage.
> >>
> >> Lets make up an example. Say your a retail chain and you need a
> >> custom point-of-sale program. If you have about 1000 stores and 3
> >> CPUs at each store thats 3000 machines that need licenses. Now if
> >> you save $100 a box thats $ 300,000!! Thats enough to hire a
> >> systems admin for 5 years.
> >
> >A little out-of-date , aren't we?
> >
> >Sun stopped charging Solaris licence fees on the smaller systems
> >(< 8 CPUs) last year, so that one's old hat.
> >The Netra X1 is a nice 1U system which costs about the same as a
> >mid-range
> >PC ($1K official price), but is IDE based. The Netra T1 is a very
> >good rack-mount SCSI-based system, but probably costs more than the
> >equivalent Dell. It *does* fit in a standard 19" comms rack, though.
> >
> >Linux *is* very good; so is Solaris. Linux isn't cheaper any more.
> >Solaris also has the advantage of better scalability on bigger boxes,
> >though the 2.4 kernel may have caught up.
> >
>
> IBM head honcho when discussing IBM's big investment in Linux recently
> stated that even the 2.4.x kernel has trouble scaling well to greater
> than 4 CPUs. I'm a linux advocate and was disappointed to hear this.
> The great thing about Linux though, is that this is likely to change
> a lot faster than any closed source based OS could hope to do.
>
It wouldn't surprise me if IBM tweaked certain sections of the code to
get around this problem. We'll soon find out if the Linux community
will reap the benefits of IBMs' research.
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Java, the "Dot-Com" Language?
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:54:00 -0700
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
> >
> > gbp wrote:
> > >
> > > >There are many RISC processors out there, HP PA-RISC, IBM 603-604
> > > series
> > > >RISC, MIPS, Sparc, Alpha and a few others I can't recall. Intel is
> > > the
> > > >only one I know of still clinging to CISC ideas.
> > > >The list goes on. Why do you think so many computer companies have
> > > >favored RISC then?
> > >
> > > Its my understanding that intel considers itself to be essentially
> > > _stuck_ with CISC since existing PC software depends on the CISC
> > > intruction set of the 386+. So since they already were firmly in
> > > the CISC camp their designers added even more (a lot more!)
> > > instructions to the chips to try to improve them that way.
> > >
> > > These improvements assume that compilers will take advantage of all
> > > these instructions. In their case it seems like a fairly safe bet.
> >
> > Thats a good point. I'd much prefer a compiler thats been time tested
> > without having the cpu vendor keep adding on more instructions that will
> > eventually obsolete my compiler. The down side to CISC is the amount of
> > silicon real-estate needed for all these instructions, ending up instead
> > with a space heater. Remember the 6502? Most of its instructions
> > completed in 1 or 2 clock cycles and a few in 3. The apple II doing
> > graphics did a fair job at 1Mhz in those days. I think Intel is the
> > only cpu vendor left using CISC.
>
> Actually, I liked the VAX-11 instructions set, becuase a good portion
> of the standard C library functions could each be implemented as a single
> line of assembly language...meaning that all of these things (like
> strchr()) were executed at the microcode level.
>
> The problem is, no compiler writer ever took advantage of this, which
> is truly a pity.
>
Yes, I know. There were other benefits in the VAX language line up as
well.
VAX fortran didn't have any simple solutions to string handling. VAX
Basic did.
The best part comes when you write a program that calls a basic
subroutine. You just link the two object modules together. No Muss ...
No Fuss. At that time I couldn't get any microsoft compiler to link
together object modules from different compilers without hair yanking
and cussing.
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
--
V
------------------------------
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