Linux-Advocacy Digest #290, Volume #26 Fri, 28 Apr 00 01:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: SeaDragon openly confesses he's an IDIOT (Was: Re: "Technical" vs.
"Non-technical"... ("Drestin Black")
So what is wrong with X? (mlw)
Re: KDE is better than Gnome ("none2")
Re: So what is wrong with X? (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: What of OS - Advocacy? (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: MS caught breaking web sites (Gary Hallock)
Enjoy it more! 47343489 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux RUINED my PC LINUX SUCKS!!!!!!! (Streamer)
Re: What of OS - Advocacy? (mlw)
Re: "Technical" vs. "Non-technical"... (was Re: Grasping perspective...) (Leslie
Mikesell)
Re: Linux RUINED my PC LINUX SUCKS!!!!!!! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Enjoy it more! 47343489 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: MS caught breaking web sites (Jim Richardson)
Re: What of OS - Advocacy? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: which OS is best? (Jim Richardson)
Re: Linus Torvalds ("amaze")
Re: Essential software list (Daniel O'Nolan)
Re: Essential software list (Daniel O'Nolan)
Re: Disabled lady needs Linux Corel (Achim Nolcken Lohse)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: SeaDragon openly confesses he's an IDIOT (Was: Re: "Technical" vs.
"Non-technical"...
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:43:40 -0400
"Perry Pip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 03:29:14 GMT, sea_Dragon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>
> >
> >I have been compiling and installing new Linux kernels for 6.5 years and
> >know what I am doing.
> >...
> >since I run Linux I expect to have to reinstall several times per year,
>
> If you have been using Linux for 6.5 years and you can't figure out how to
> get your system so it doesn't need to be constantly reinstalled then you
> are obviously a TOTAL FUCKING IDIOT!!!
>
>
Allow me to put this another way:
If you have been using Windows for 6.5 years and you can't figure out how to
get your system so it doesn't need to be constantly reinstalled or rebooted
then you are obviously a TOTAL FUCKING IDIOT!!
get it?
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: So what is wrong with X?
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:55:18 -0400
About once or twice a year, we get a crop of people trashing X for
various reasons. The reasons, however, never tell the whole story.
"X is slow!"
Perhaps XFree86 is not as speedy as it could be, but it is really hard
to characterize as slow. Some optimized X servers are VERY speedy.
"X is old!"
Yup, it is. Very proven and useful technology. Like most of the best OS
ideas, computers are growing in to them. X is no different. 20 years ago
virtual memory was totally impossible on a PC, now it is a necessity. X
is no different.
I find it very funny that people are starting to kick X. Citrix and
Windows Terminal server are trying to do what X has done all along. I
guess if you can't beat the competitor with quality and innovation, you
have to discredit them with FUD and lies.
Innovation to most people is doing something new to the world. Innvation
at Microsoft is doing something new to Microsoft.
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit http://www.mohawksoft.com
"We've got a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she ordered the
lobster"
------------------------------
From: "none2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.kde,tw.bbs.comp.linux
Subject: Re: KDE is better than Gnome
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:39:32 +0000
In article <8dq3r1$2j5b$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(abraxas) wrote:
> Hmmm...now youre making me want to try sawfish....
>
> What can you tell me about it in comparison with windowmaker?
http://home.earthlink.net/~vrwmiller/mdew-pic.jpg
the power of windowmaker :)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: So what is wrong with X?
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 02:32:35 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote on Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:55:18 -0400 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>About once or twice a year, we get a crop of people trashing X for
>various reasons. The reasons, however, never tell the whole story.
>
>"X is slow!"
>Perhaps XFree86 is not as speedy as it could be, but it is really hard
>to characterize as slow. Some optimized X servers are VERY speedy.
I suspect one can find slow items in both windowing systems.
I will note, however, that Windows is *very* slow on printout
to windows, to the point of overloading the CPU on a Pentium!
(Try a simple Perl script that prints out lots of lines of text
on a DOS box, for example.)
The slowness is exacerbated by the infamous "duh, I can't iconify if
I'm not waiting for messages" problem/bug/design deficiency. :-)
X solves that neatly by using a separate process for the window manager.
>
>"X is old!"
>Yup, it is. Very proven and useful technology. Like most of the best OS
>ideas, computers are growing in to them. X is no different. 20 years ago
>virtual memory was totally impossible on a PC, now it is a necessity. X
>is no different.
X may not be that old, even. After all, it's been upgraded, much
like Unix is (Unix originally didn't have shared libraries or TCP/IP).
I'd be surprised if anyone remembers X10 (I don't), for example.
>I find it very funny that people are starting to kick X. Citrix and
>Windows Terminal server are trying to do what X has done all along.
Not to mention pcAnywhere. (Or is that Citrix? I don't know offhand.)
>I
>guess if you can't beat the competitor with quality and innovation, you
>have to discredit them with FUD and lies.
>
>Innovation to most people is doing something new to the world. Innvation
>at Microsoft is doing something new to Microsoft.
Which is one reason why Win95 = Mac89. :-) And while Linux isn't
quite as advanced GUI-wise as the Mac, it has great potential.
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Windows. When you want lots of (back)doors.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: What of OS - Advocacy?
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 02:39:45 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote on Fri, 28 Apr 2000 00:23:09 GMT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>What will become when Microsoft dies?
>
>Will we still have OS - Advocacy newsgroups?
>
>If so, what would they be like.
>
>Would it be RedHat users against Suse users?
>Debian users against FreeBSD users?
>
>
>There will be no Microsoft soon! I can hear the aweful wind
>comming from the WINTROLL'S as the pass their wisdom!
>
>Take note of their rantings my brothers! You are watching history in
>the making here! No special graphics or computer simulations such as
>we see on the Discovery Channel with all those Dinosaurs!
>
>We are witnessing the death of an operating system and the death of
>a company!
[rest snipped]
Oh please.
While Windows may deserve the death of the dinosaur (and I'll admit,
I'd just as soon it disappear), the fact that it has been installed
on 80% - 90% of corporate desktops means it's not going to die
anytime soon. (More's the pity.)
At least, not until someone finds a replacement. :-) Hopefully,
someone can decipher (or implement) the MS Word format sufficiently
to do a document conversion; the text is the easy part, of course, but
I don't know about embedded pictures, figures, or spreadsheets.
(I've heard StarOffice does a passable job, but can't say for sure.)
I also suspect that the DOJ wouldn't be so crass as to require
that the new BabyMicroSoft that actually sells the Windows
component actually sell a Windows replacement, instead. Most
likely, Windows will either become open source, or all of those
"undocumented API" calls will become documented (and sufficiently
well for WinE (www.winehq.org) to implement them fully in a couple
of years.
The imminent death of Microsoft is greatly exaggerated, methinks.
(Likewise, Linux. :-) )
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:49:17 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: MS caught breaking web sites
Drestin Black wrote:
>
> WHAT is new and different about Linux? It's old and copied! AND it's not
> what they'll be using in the real world or in their future. it's not what is
> running in their schools and not what is running in businesses. Teaching
> them how to use a poor GUI is no substitute for exposing them to the
> predominant OS and GUI that they'll very most likely need to use in their
> own lives. Why not teach your son how to be the very best mechanic of 50s
> style engines, lotsa good that'll do him getting a job working on year '00
> engines?
Every OS to a certain degree is old and copied. Windows is certainly old and
copied. As for what is used in the real world, you really should get out
more. I make a good living and guess what operating systems I use at work -
AIX and Linux. The only thing I use Windows for is mail and that will soon be
changing to Linux.
Gary
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Enjoy it more! 47343489
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:49:01 -0800
1. Unplug your phones/cell, etc.
2. Light some candles.
3. Turn off the lights.
4. Have a little to drink, not a lot
5. Put on some music.
http://www.go2xmax.com/3355
------------------------------
From: Streamer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux RUINED my PC LINUX SUCKS!!!!!!!
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:08:40 -0500
Cybrinjn wrote:
> Maybe we oughtta read the headers of 'trolls' before replying.
> This guy is using Linux. See headers below. You been had.
Actually, I knew it wasn't S....The headers and using the name 'Jethro' son of
Jed Clampett were dead giveways. It was just that his post was so "S-like" and
was very nostalgic with 'BY <misspelled BUY> M$FT'. :)
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What of OS - Advocacy?
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:19:01 -0400
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote on Fri, 28 Apr 2000 00:23:09 GMT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >What will become when Microsoft dies?
> >
> >Will we still have OS - Advocacy newsgroups?
> >
> >If so, what would they be like.
> >
> >Would it be RedHat users against Suse users?
> >Debian users against FreeBSD users?
> >
> >
> >There will be no Microsoft soon! I can hear the aweful wind
> >comming from the WINTROLL'S as the pass their wisdom!
> >
> >Take note of their rantings my brothers! You are watching history in
> >the making here! No special graphics or computer simulations such as
> >we see on the Discovery Channel with all those Dinosaurs!
> >
> >We are witnessing the death of an operating system and the death of
> >a company!
>
> [rest snipped]
>
> Oh please.
>
> While Windows may deserve the death of the dinosaur (and I'll admit,
> I'd just as soon it disappear), the fact that it has been installed
> on 80% - 90% of corporate desktops means it's not going to die
> anytime soon. (More's the pity.)
>
> At least, not until someone finds a replacement. :-) Hopefully,
> someone can decipher (or implement) the MS Word format sufficiently
> to do a document conversion; the text is the easy part, of course, but
> I don't know about embedded pictures, figures, or spreadsheets.
> (I've heard StarOffice does a passable job, but can't say for sure.)
What was that quote from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy? "Once someone
discovers the nature of the universe, it will change in to some thing
even more inexplicable. There is another theory that this has already
happened." Can easily be applied to Word and office formats.
>
> I also suspect that the DOJ wouldn't be so crass as to require
> that the new BabyMicroSoft that actually sells the Windows
> component actually sell a Windows replacement, instead. Most
> likely, Windows will either become open source, or all of those
> "undocumented API" calls will become documented (and sufficiently
> well for WinE (www.winehq.org) to implement them fully in a couple
> of years.
I don't know. I hope they push off Micro-OS division on its own, without
the ability to bundle the OS with the application. Without the ability
to use application revenue to support the OS. It still has a serious
stronghold, but it could be weakened.
The Micro-Apps division should be forbidden to be bundled with the OS,
and should criminally prosecuted should it be found that it is using
Windows API's which are not common knowledge, proven that they had OS
information before the rest of the industry, or found to be using
techniques which could only be gained by having access to OS internals.
To these points, Micro-OS guys should not be allowed to work for
Micro-App, and vice versa.
I think the "Internet" division should not be allowed access to either
OS or Application divisions. IE can be bundled with Windows as an
option. The Micro-Apps must not be allowed to require it. The GUI must
not be allowed to require it. An IE upgrade muct not be allowed to
replace components that are used by either OS or Applications.
MS should be forced to publish MS Office document format specifications.
>
> The imminent death of Microsoft is greatly exaggerated, methinks.
> (Likewise, Linux. :-) )
Neither MS nor Linux are going anywhere any time soon. It is likely,
however, that proper competition, on a level playing ground, will prove
what technology will win. My bet is on OSS. (Probably Linux, FreeBSD is
not out of the question, and maybe, somewhere, somebody has a new OS
which will be able to compete when MS is not stomping on them before
they can get started. (ref: Go Computing)).
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit http://www.mohawksoft.com
"We've got a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she ordered the
lobster"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: "Technical" vs. "Non-technical"... (was Re: Grasping perspective...)
Date: 27 Apr 2000 22:35:16 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Perry Pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Why does it require a thread for each device or file? I would think you
>>could have one thread dedicated to handling async io for all of the files
>>and/or devices at once by using poll(). When a particular file is ready
>>for io you send a sigio as appropriate.
>
>As I understand it, when you use select() or poll(), the kernel has to
>check each descriptor one by one when the calling process is queued. Then
>when select() or poll() returns, you have to call FD_ISSET repeatedly (for
>select()) or scan thru the pollfd structure array (for poll()). Both if
>these take up CPU time if you have a large number of descriptors. With
>a thread for each descriptor this is avoided.
So instead of a huge list of fd's for select/poll to watch, you
now have a huge list of threads to schedule according to
completitions on that same huge list of fd's. Isn't it about
the same amount of work either way?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux RUINED my PC LINUX SUCKS!!!!!!!
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 03:38:51 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Freaking pile of shit Linux ruined my system. Damm Redhat erased 2
> partitions and I lost all my data...
>
> DON'T USE LINUX IT WILL KILL YOUR PC
Its a poor workman who blames his tools.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Enjoy it more! 47343489
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 03:40:28 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 1. Unplug your phones/cell, etc.
> 2. Light some candles.
> 3. Turn off the lights.
> 4. Have a little to drink, not a lot
> 5. Put on some music.
6. Get sh*tfaced and start posting to c.o.l.a.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: MS caught breaking web sites
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 04:15:29 GMT
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:41:12 -0400,
Drestin Black, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>
>"Brian Langenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8e4uka$cc6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> : "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> :>"Cary O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>
>> :>> Linux is *GREAT* for families with small children. My 6 and 9 year
>> :>> olds have no trouble at all typing their name and password into the
>> :>> xdm login box.
>> : ^^^
>> :>i feel sorry for these kids... no games, forced to type arcane commands
>in
>> :>mixed case and rewarded by having a non-crashing machine that faithfully
>> :>returns a constant stream of error messages. I'm sure they suddenly lite
>up
>> :>when they hit startx and suddenly discover they can actually use the
>> :>computer productively and easily.
>>
>> : Drestin, weren't you recently trying to convince people you had actually
>> : installed and used Linux?
>>
>> : I mean, the "into the xdm login box" might have gone over your head,
>> : but the subsequent
>>
>> I'm not sure which is more offensive: that the childrens' intelligence
>> has been insulted for the sake of bashing an operating system or
>> the implication that allowing children access to anything not
>> user friendly is some form of bad parenting.
>>
>> Heaven forbid that kids should be exposed to anything new and
>> different...
>>
>>
>WHAT is new and different about Linux? It's old and copied! AND it's not
>what they'll be using in the real world or in their future. it's not what is
>running in their schools and not what is running in businesses. Teaching
>them how to use a poor GUI is no substitute for exposing them to the
>predominant OS and GUI that they'll very most likely need to use in their
>own lives. Why not teach your son how to be the very best mechanic of 50s
>style engines, lotsa good that'll do him getting a job working on year '00
>engines?
>
>
heheh, Drestin, you're funny.
Schools all over are picking up linux, businesses are adopting it at an
increadible rate, growth rates that M$ has never seen. Every computer store I
walk into now has linux on endcaps, multiple distros grace the shelves at
Barnes and Noble and Borders. It used to be that tech trade mags occaisionaly
had an article on linux related subjects, now, it's hard to find one that
doesn't. Every company I have worked for and consulted for for the last 6
months has Linux somewhere in house, rarely on the desktop, but that too
sometimes.
You can pretend Linux is going away, and if you try really hard, you might
even convince yourself, but be careful, if you try too hard, it's called
delusion and people in white smocks will talk real slow to you.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: What of OS - Advocacy?
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 04:15:31 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> maybe, somewhere, somebody has a new OS
> which will be able to compete when MS is not stomping on them before
> they can get started. (ref: Go Computing)).
Arrrggh. Paradigm shift. Ooops, missed it.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.flame.macintosh
Subject: Re: which OS is best?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 04:42:58 GMT
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:23:52 -0500,
[EMAIL PROTECTED], in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 04:59:27 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
>wrote:
>
>>>Helix-modified-Gnome isn't all bad, but it's still a far cry from the
>>>ease-of-use of Windows/MacOS's GUI.
>>
>><rant of the day>
>>
>>So can someone explain why it is I have to open a pdf file in windows in
>>order to print it? I mean, under linux, dragging the file to the printer
>>icon, or typing lpr file.pdf prints it just fine. Why does windows feel
>>it is neccessary to open it up with adobe acrobat first? It takes a long
>>time compared to simply dragging it to the printer icon in KDE. I mean,
>>if I drag it to the printer icon in windows, windows asks me for a file
>>association, I don't want to open it, just print it.
>
>Why would it ask for a file association? Acrobat automatically
>registers itself at installation. It sounds like you didn't install
>Acrobat Reader - you only copied the installation from another
>machine, without adding the correct entries in the registry (which
>normally happens for you at installation time). When I drag a PDF
>onto a printer, it prints for me perfectly. (I just did it.)
>
acrobat is installed, if I dbl click on the pdf, it is opened in acrobat,
but dragging to the printer is a no go, wants a file association.
>> Another thing, why is it that windows can't seem to deal with
>>postscript files, under linux, there's ghost script and the like, all
>>set up and easy as click to use, from the command line or gui. Sure, I
>>can go to the effort of grabbing GS and GV for windows, but why doesn't
>>it come with something similar?
>
>You'd have to tell me what those are before I can tell you what NT
>does in their place.
Ghostscript is a postscript interpreter, very versatile, knows pdf and ps
and a lot more. GV is the X-frontend for GS and its not NT, 95
>
>>Ymmv, but for me, linux is easier to use, and with the exception of
>>games, has better and more apps.
>
>In some ways yes, in some no.
For what I do, it is.
>
>>To top it all off, the W95 machine I was using briefly today froze, I had
>>tried running telnet from the "Run" menu item, (have done so before with
>>no prob) and the system froze, a few minutes later, it was rebooting, except
>>it had somehow trashed the C: drive, which it no longer recognized as a
>>bootable disk.
>
>I don't think anyone here seriously defends 95 as the 'be-all' machine
>for work.
>
>
It's not the be all for anything, it's ok for games, because they are written
for it, but every game I have for linux is more stable than the windows version,
this is a small list admitadly. Win9X is only good for the games that have
no linux version yet. NT might be better, but it's way too expensive, and I
don't trust the boys in Redmond.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
Reply-To: "amaze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "amaze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Linus Torvalds
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:49:19 -0500
Sorry,
Kinda made me angry.
"Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" - Master Yoda
Mike Esler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Please don't feed the trolls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
> Johnathan Talley wrote:
>
> > This guy is lost and programmed by hype. He's a pitiful example of a
> > misguided human being. But I don't take kindly to people saying others
> > should be physically harmed because they excerise their freedom of
choice.
> > Dude sucks ass with a crazy-straw.
> >
> > Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I believe that the operation system create by Linus Torvalds, Linux,
is
> > the downfall of the software industry. People who use such a dreaful
program
> > should be shot. How dare they take money from hardworking companies like
> > microsoft and driving down my shares.
> > > >
> > > > ==================================
> > > > Posted via http://nodevice.com
> > > > Linux Programmer's Site
> > >
> > > Crossposted to the proper usenet-group. Let's see the
> > > reactions, shall we?
> > > (What an asshole!)
> > >
> > > --
> > > % make fire
> > > Don't know how to make fire
> > > % Why not?
> > > No match
>
> --
> Mike Esler
> Sverdrup Technology
> System Administrator
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: Daniel O'Nolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Essential software list
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:56:29 -0500
Yns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Having recently started using Linux, I have setup my system
> to use the Blackbox desktop environment. Good, fast and=20
> simple. However, I'd like to know what software veteran=20
> linux users continually use (I know in unix there are many
> ways to do the same job).
>=20
> Are there any gnome apps that are just too super to ignore?
> (I've only found GnoRPM useful).
>=20
> Are there any KDE apps that are too useful to ignore?
kpm is a pretty good GUI substitute for top
>=20
> Also what packages to most people use for:
>=20
> Editors: Vim? but are there any other good editors (apart from EMACS).
if you liked the dos EDIT.COM, mcedit is a pretty good substitue. CLI on=
ly
though. gvim is a pretty good GUI editor,
>=20
> Word Processors: Star Office or what?
Star Office is O.K., but to me it seems like the ultimate in redundancy (=
a
desktop on a desktop). It also takes up a lot of recourses. I've heard =
good
things about Aplixware though.
>=20
> Spreadsheets: any msexcel compatible?
don't know on that one.
>=20
> Utilities: what are the most essential utilities used (e.g. rpm, make,
> utilities giving sysinfo etc.)
as far as the CLI, there is top, vim *gets ready for the flames*, df, and=
free.
>=20
> Any help or pointers to web pages etc. will be greatly appreciated.
http://www.freshmeat.org is an EXCELLENT place for linux files. It's abo=
ut
equivilent to http://www.winfiles.com
>=20
> Thanks.
-Dan O'Nolan
------------------------------
From: Daniel O'Nolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Essential software list
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:06:47 -0500
> Editors: Vim? but are there any other good editors (apart from EMACS).
If you liked DOS's EDIT.COM mcedit is a pretty good substutute. Also, VI=
has a
GUI editing version called gvim.
-Dan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Achim Nolcken Lohse)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux.corel,alt.linux,alt.fan.linux
Subject: Re: Disabled lady needs Linux Corel
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 04:54:52 GMT
On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:22:51 -0500, John Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Someone should have steered you elsewhere. Corel seems to have some
>hardware support problems (check their newsgroups). I don't understand
>what you mean about the security issues. You think windows is more
>secure than linux?
I think she may mean from external attack while on-line. Certainly
that's my feeling. Judging by posts in comp.security.firewalls
there's no equivalent of Zonealarm in the Linux environment. To
achieve the same sort of security with Linux on-line requires far more
work and more knowledge than I've been able to scrape together in five
months of trying to learn Linux.
>You need to do some more reading. Any security
>issues with linux are addressed quickly (unlike some other OS's). You
>(and no one else) have no earthly idea what the code looks like for
>windows so how would you assume it is secure. Ask any cracker which is
>easier to do, a windows box or a linux box.
Well, I understand there is a Linux kit that lets you completely take
control of the machine of an unwary Linux surfer and conceal the fact
from him. I've never heard of anything similar in Windows.
>I am not trying to start an
>OS war but don't troll a disabled lady with uninformed crap. She was
>asking about linux distros and support, not for someone to tell her she
>can't figure it out. And just for reference you don't have to be a
>computert expert to set up a linux box (ever tried Mandrake 7?). I am
>very new to computers and it isn't that hard (it is just different 8^)
You seem to confuse dumb luck with skill. An acquaintance of mine with
years of programming practice just tried to install Mandrake on his
system and finally gave up on it.
It took me many hours of work to get RedHat going on my system, and it
still doesn't work well enough for me to do anything useful with it.
Corel Linux wouldn't even install. The reference books available by
and large stink. Your only hope is to get advice on-line or from a
friend if you run into a problem, and that's pretty iffy.
I've been to Corel's site, and seen at least a half dozen messages
reporting the exact same problem I had, another half dozen here. So
where's the fix? Nobody even knows what the problem is.
I'm not saying that the advantages of Linux you cite aren't valid.
That's why I tried, and continue to try to find a way to use it. But
its not user-friendly, and especially not to computer novices. I'm no
computer novice myself, but with one experimental keystroke, while
trying to figure out how to mount my Bernoulli removables under Red
Hat, I managed to completely wipe out 150MB of data. The reason this
happened is not because I'm an idiot, but because none of the dozen
fat Linux reference books I consulted had a single entry about
accessing removable SCSI drives.
Achim
------------------------------
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