Linux-Advocacy Digest #332, Volume #33 Tue, 3 Apr 01 21:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. (GreyCloud)
Re: More Microsoft security concerns: Wall Street Journal (GreyCloud)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (Charles Lyttle)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (Charles Lyttle)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised (Bob Hauck)
Re: Arrrrgh! Hoist the Jolly Roger! (Bloody Viking)
Re: Arrrrgh! Hoist the Jolly Roger! (Bloody Viking)
Re: Arrrrgh! Hoist the Jolly Roger! (Bloody Viking)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 18:19:25 -0700
Dana wrote:
>
> Scott D. Erb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> >
> > > Alex Chaihorsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:9ab35s$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Erb,
> > > >
> > > > You have to be honest. We know you have problems with honesty.
> > > > But "Is" is "Is".
> > > > In the middle of the discussion you suddenly remembered that the
> original
> > > > meaning of Liberalism, which has nothing to do with contemporary
> > > Liberalism.
> >
> > Actually, it does! Not only that, but in all countries in Europe the term
> > "liberal" is used to refer to the pro-business parties who desire less
> > government regulation (the FDP in Germany is an example). Thobaben and
> > Funderburk, in their book "Political Ideologies" trace how classical
> liberalism
> > moved to "new" liberalism with people like John Stuart Mill and liberal
> > reformers recognizing that you need government action to have the type of
> equal
> > opportunity for all that liberalism assumes;
>
> Number one erb, classical liberalism did not move to "new liberalism" The
> people that believe in classical liberalism moved to the right of the
> spectrum, ie the libertarians, and people like me, a compassionate
> conservative. Where the people that were conservative on the right who
> favored the status quo, and big government, they moved left, those are your
> new liberals, as well as people like you.
>
:-)
Well, thats what slippery weasels do best... redefine the terms to their
own advantage... creating new monikers and new slang.
> that otherwise powerful actors can
> > use their power to exploit others. The goal of new liberalism was not to
> create
> > socialism --
>
> Yes it was erb, to this day it is the goal of the new left, and their
> marxist thoughts to be a true socialized global force. They want a huge
> state, and slaves.
>
> >
> > > > Smart move. But may be it is me, who is dishonest here? let the
> readers
> > > > decide.
> > > > As you know, words, do not really mean anything on its own. Like many
> > > words
> > > > that describe groups and events on the political landscape,
> "Liberalism"
> > > > means different things at different times.
> > > > Liberalism in its original 18th century British form sought individual
> > > > liberties and was opposed to the growing power of the governments. The
> > > > American Constitution is the crescendo of Western Liberalism ideology.
> > > > Contemporary liberalism has nothing to do with it. Actually, it is
> almost
> > > > the exact opposite: - a collectivist ideology.
> >
> > I disagree strongly there. American liberalism is not collectivist,
>
> Bullshit erb.
>
> compared to
> > real Socialism or European Social Democracy, most American liberals tend
> to be
> > seen as very individualist.
>
> What are you smoking.
>
> .
> >
> > > But do not take my word for
> > > > it.
> > > > The Encyclopedia Britannica (1998 edition) defines the relation
> between
> > > the
> > > > two the best:
> > > > "The expansion of government power and responsibility sought by
> liberals
> > > > today is clearly opposed to the contraction of government power and
> > > > responsibility sought by liberals yesterday."
> > > > Please, everyone, re-read this passage again! Da ist der Hund
> begraben!
> >
> > Eigentlich nicht. Again, I'd refer you to the Thobaben and Funderburk
> book, or
> > a book by Leon Baradat called "Political Ideologies" as well. The fact
> that
> > liberalism veered between classical liberals, who dominated early in the
> 19th
> > century in Britain, and an expanse of the new liberalism which emerged
> mid-19th
> > century in Britain doesn't deny the ideological link. The premises of the
> > ideology remain the same, even if the policies advanced are very
> different.
> >
> > Socialism underwent similar splits. Social Democrats trace their roots
> back to
> > Marx, as do some anarcho-socialists. These groups are totally opposed to
> the
> > kind of totalitarianism of Stalin and the Communists, whose ideas also
> emerged
> > from early socialism.
>
> No they are not.
> >
> > > > Two most famous founders of liberalism, John Locke (1632-1704), the
> > > > philosopher of individual liberty and Adam Smith (1723?-1790), the
> author
> > > of
> > > > classical liberal laissez-faire economic theory are spinning in their
> > > graves
> > > > "listening" to what became of their ideology today.
> >
> > I rather doubt it. Locke also talked about limits on rights if the
> exercise of
> > those rights denied the rights to others (esp. property rights). Mill and
> the
> > new liberals worked form aspects in Lockean and other early liberal
> thought.
> > Smith recognized that the theory he had was not magical, and that it
> required a
> > culture conducive to capitalism. However, I suspect Marx would be
> spinning in
> > his grave to see his ideas associated with Stalin or Mao. Ideological
> > development is complex.
> >
> > > > In modern time, it was Margaret Thatcher, who represented classic
> > > liberalism
> > > > most eloquently. She, President Ronald Reagan and to some extent
> Secretary
> > > > General Gorbachev, were the most recent champions of the liberal cause
> in
> > > > its original form.
> >
> > When I teach about political ideologies I make a point to note that Ronald
> > Reagan was a liberal. So was Thatcher. I want students to learn the
> > distinction between the terminology used by political philosophers and
> that used
> > in every day political jargon. We then look at how the words changed over
> time,
> > what the core assumptions of the ideology are, etc.
>
> And you need to learn that the American liberal is not liberal, but
> socialist.
> >
> > > I bow in deep respect to these noble giants of
> > > > liberalism, to who we owe our recent victories over the monster of the
> > > world
> > > > Communism.
> >
> > I doubt you can credit them with that. They helped make the demise of
> communism
> > more peaceful than it could have been, but it was an unworkable sick
> system that
> > was collapsing in on itself anyway. It was doomed to fall, but without
> the work
> > of the leaders of the time, the fall could have been much more deadly and
> noisey
> > than it was!
>
> Than why do you still want to force that corrupt form of government on
> people.
> >
> > > > That has nothing to do with socialists and communists that have stolen
> the
> > > > word (as they always do, because they have to distance themselves from
> the
> > > > horrors of their original ideology).
> >
> > Most Social Democrats and western Socialists were extremely
> anti-Communist.
> > Kurt Schumacher, a West German who proudly called himself a Socialist
> labeled
> > the East bloc Communists "red painted fascists." The Social Democrats in
> > Germany (SPD) split with the Soviet Union in response to the revolution,
> with
> > the Communist party forming in response (KPD). The Social Democrats
> fought to
> > save the Weimar Republic, combating both the Nazis and the KPD in street
> fights
> > and political battles. In the end, the SPD was the only major party
> wanting to
> > keep democracy in Germany, and the only party to vote against the Enabling
> Act
> > giving Hitler complete power. German liberal parties (ideological
> liberalism)
> > and nationalist parties voted to hand over power to Hitler. Trying to
> tie
> > Social Democrats to the evil ideology (yes, evil -- the Soviets had an
> evil
> > empire) is as misguided as trying to claim conservatives are the same as
> Nazis.
> >
> > > > So, Dana is right, and if you claim that Liberal Democracy definition
> > > today
> > > > has retain the meaning of Liberalism of the 18th century, you have to
> > > become
> > > > small government, no free lunch, individualist, which you are
> obviously
> > > NOT.
> >
> > The definition of Liberal Democracy is clear in the books I cited: it is a
> > Democratic Republic based on protecting individual rights of life, liberty
> and
> > property, ideological liberalism. That is not a usage I invented, it is
> from
> > those books I cited: Comparative Politics by Charles Hauss, West
> Publishing;
> > European Democracies by Juerg Steiner, Longman Publishers, etc. That
> isn't even
> > a controversy.
> >
> > > > But we would like you to be that. What would it take for you to
> abandon
> > > > your socialist agenda? Yet another tens of millions of tortured and
> killed
> > > > by Communist NKVD-KGB? More artificial hunger like in 1920-ies in
> Ukraine
> > > > that caused the biggest outbreak of documented cannibalism known to
> > > men?
> >
> > Again, note the above: almost all western Socialists despise Communism. I
> agree
> > with Schumacher, they were red painted fascists, nothing more.
> >
> > Second, if you read the thread I started called "Left Libertarianism,"
> you'd
> > recognize that I share with you a profound mistrust of state power. Your
> error
> > is to believe Dana, he's constantly lying and issuing personal attacks
> that have
> > no basis in reality. I ask you to read my ideas and respond to them, and
> > believe flames from someone who, if you look at his threads, is known as a
> > flamester.
> >
> > > More
> > > > dead bodies than you already had in Cambodia?
> > > > I remember how "Comrade Pol Pot" was marching down the hall of the
> Palace
> > > of
> > > > Communism in Moscow during XXIV World Communist Congress. How General
> > > > Secretary Of the Communist Party of USA - Guss Hall (we called him
> "Gas
> > > > Hall") was standing next to him, apploading. Cambodia was in the
> middle of
> > > > the its carnage at the time, but American Communists an Socialist were
> > > > there, in Moscow, applauding the butcher.
> > > > You hope that we forgot. No, Erb. Americans forgot, kind souls that
> they
> > > > are, we didn't.
> >
> > Nor have I, which is why I am against powerful government, and believe
> that the
> > most important aspect of politics today is to hold governments accountable
> for
> > their action. I am on record supporting decentralization of power,
> openness of
> > government, and other actions to make the abuse of power more difficult.
> Any
> > time you centralize power, either in a big corporation or a big government
> or a
> > big Mafia, you get risks. The challenge of politics is to prevent that
> power
> > centralization while still achieving effective governance. The focus, in
> my
> > opinion, must be on ethics.
> >
> > cheers, scott
> > http://violet.umf.maine.edu/~erb/
> >
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: More Microsoft security concerns: Wall Street Journal
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 18:27:31 -0700
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
> >
> > Chad Everett wrote:
> > >
> > > On 2 Apr 2001 18:43:06 -0500, Jon Johanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >> "Stephen S. Edwards II" wrote:
> > > >> > Really now. I would also ask how in the hell
> > > >> > you've determined that Microsoft has merely
> > > >> > implemented some 4.4BSD code in order to
> > > >> > get Windows2000. Do you have access to the
> > > >> > WindowsNT v4.0 and v5.0 source trees?
> > > >>
> > > >> the "strings" command finds embedded strings in ANY file, including
> > > >> compiled executables and dll files.
> > > >>
> > > >> "Copyright (C), Regents of the University of California" strings have
> > > >> been found in Mafia$oft's DLL files.
> > > >>
> > > >> Hope that helps.
> > > >
> > > >I don't believe you. How about showing us one?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hey Everybody! It's Jon! Hi Jon!
> > >
> > > You asked, so here ya go:
> > >
> > > Here are some files from a Windows 2000 Professional system along with
> > > the copyright strings that are contained in them:
> > >
> > > C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\finger.exe
> > > @(#) Copyright (c) 1980 The Regents of the University of California.
> > > C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\nslookup.exe
> > > @(#) Copyright (c) 1985,1989 Regents of the University of California.
> > > C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\rcp.exe
> > > @(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
> > > C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\rsh.exe
> > > @(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
> > > C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\FTP.EXE
> > > @(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
> >
> > I wonder if MS pays royalty for this.
>
> What part of MAFIAsoft do you not understand?
> :-)
>
HAHAHA!!! You know, someone had to do it (Bill Gates). Who else would
name his company after his dick?
> >
> > --
> > V
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
------------------------------
From: Charles Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:35:27 GMT
Zed Mister wrote:
>
> It's irrelevant. If we block access, we'll get so many calls that we'd have
> to quadruple the technical support staff (understatement) to deal with it.
> Furthermore, once we explain to the users what we have done and why, they
> will cancel their accounts with extreme prejudice and we'll likely lose a
> large majority of our customer base. So, yeah, I don't think the company
> wants to go bankrupt for something like this. The problems of Microsoft's
> licensing agreements pale in comparison to having no company at all.
>
> "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Are you saying (assuming Chad is correct in his interpretation) that
> > your company doesnt mind any commuications it sends through Hotmail
> > becoming the property of Micro$oft?
Don't block access. You have to service your customers. Just put in a
caveat notifying customers that correspondence with them via hotmail
becomes the property of MS. Quote the appropriate passages in the MS
documents. Also look into installing a secure communications channel,
i.e. encrypted, with your customers. You have to support your
customers. Most who use hotmail do not know about the MS rules of
engagement. Be sure to let them know why you can't put any company
proprietary information over hotmail.
--
Russ Lyttle
"World Domination through Penguin Power"
The Universal Automotive Testset Project at
<http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
------------------------------
From: Charles Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:38:26 GMT
Tim wrote:
>
> In article <pCsy6.1863$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > That is what licence agreements are for. You read them and then agree to
> > them or you don't. My advice don't use the service. As for banning incoming
> > mail from M$ that sounds like something they would do.
>
> If the license agreement states that any data SENT from his mail
> server through MS's mail servers becomes Microsoft's property then that
> means that by blocking outgoing mail he's protecting his intellectual
> property rights.
> I'm thinking about doing it myself.
>
> > "Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > ******************************************************
> > > By Chuck Mead on Monday April 02 2001 @ 11:55PM EDT
> > > http://www.moongroup.com/stories.php?story=01/04/02/0156291
> > >
> > > Microsoft should be feared and despised!
> > > ----------------------------------------
> > >
> > > After taking the time to read the Microsoft Passport Web Site Terms of Use
> > > and Notices I have had a belly full of them. The potential damage they can
> > > do with this license is staggering. I encourage everyone to take the time
> > to read it,
> > > particularly the section entitled "LICENSE TO MICROSOFT". If you've ever
> > > had any doubts about the nature of that company reading that section
> > should
> > > put them to rest for good and all!
> > >
> > > I don't know how many times I've heard Microsoft described as "evil" by
> > > Linux zealots and open source supporters (which I am both) and thought,
> > > "They're losing it... Microsoft is just a company!" but now I'm forced
> > > to agree with them. This license is heinous, and more, it's frightening
> > > because I know that some people won't read it and will lose the rights
> > > to their own data/content without knowing. Add that to the fact that
> > > the license is clearly attempting to gain the rights to *ALL CONTENT
> > > WHICH PASSES OVER ANY SERVICE THEY PROVIDE*. For example... this
> > > article could be copied by someone and sent to someone else who uses
> > > the hotmail email service. According to the license Microsoft would then
> > > own the rights to this article! Unbelieveable you say? Go read it and see
> > > for yourself.
> > >
> > > Most of the time when confronted with things like this I may rage for
> > > a while but I usually conclude that there is little that I can do to
> > > cause the policy to change so why bother doing anything at all but not
> > > this time!
> > >
> > > Effective with this posting the following blocks are in place against
> > > email inbound to MoonGroup.com or any of it's domains. If you truly
> > > understand what their license means you will do the same on your mail
> > > server.
> > >
> > > msn.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > msn.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > microsoft.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > microsoft.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > hotmail.com 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > > hotmail.net 550 Microsoft licenses are unacceptable. No mail from their
> > services will be accepted.
> > >
> > > As this is clearly a pre-cursor of what Microsoft's .Net initative is
> > > all about I will be watching very closely to see where it goes. I had
> > > thought that SOAP might be something very useful which would help to
> > > open them up a bit but after reading this license it's clear to me that
> > > all that .Net and Hailstorm are going to be is just another sad example
> > > of "embrace and extend".
> > >
> > > I fear them for what they are doing! I despise them for doing it!
> > >
> > > Good luck to all of us... we're going to need it!
> > >
> > >
> > > Here are some related links:
> > >
> > > The Register.COM article:
> > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/18002.html
> > >
> > > Troubleshooters.COM new copyright and other articles:
> > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/cpyright.htm
> > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm#_new_copyright
> > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm#_three_articles
> > >
> > > LEAP Thread (first article in thread):
> > > http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/leaplist/2001-April/011248.html
> > >
> > > By Chuck Mead on Monday April 02 2001 @ 11:55PM EDT
> > >
> > > ******************************************************
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
I've just started getting lots of "domain unreachable" messages myself
for mail that would pass through a MS node
--
Russ Lyttle
"World Domination through Penguin Power"
The Universal Automotive Testset Project at
<http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:43:48 GMT
On Tue, 03 Apr 2001 17:23:15 -0700, GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> My girlfriend uses MSN, and just as a side note, my isp has blocked her
>> twice now, just because of domain name. Could it be similar to the number
>> of porn related .msn emails I get from my hotmail account (Which I use for
>> spam blockage) ???
MSN has been put on the "Realtime Blackhole List" a couple of times now
for allowing their system to be a spam source. The RBL is a list of
networks that are known spam sources or that contain open relays used
by spammers. Many ISP's use the RBL as a first-line defense against
spam.
You can read more about the RBL at: <http://mail-abuse.org/rbl/>
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Arrrrgh! Hoist the Jolly Roger!
Date: 4 Apr 2001 00:53:20 GMT
Chad Everett ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Get a list of all the Microsoft groupies from
: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy and report them to
: Microsoft.
Or let Microshit grep on alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc for all those idiots. But
companies with warez on the servers are a juicier catch...
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Arrrrgh! Hoist the Jolly Roger!
Date: 4 Apr 2001 00:57:46 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: For Microsoft, *THIS* would be a more accurate URL name:
: http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/howto
: Seeing that that's their primary software development technique.
Close. It should be:
http://www.microshit.com/piracy/Warez-HOWTO.html
and:
http://www.microshit.com/piracy/corporate/WinNT/servers/Warez_Office-HOWTO.html
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Arrrrgh! Hoist the Jolly Roger!
Date: 4 Apr 2001 01:06:59 GMT
JS PL ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: And a search for Microsoft at http://www.delphion.com/ turned up about 3500
: results. That's about one new patent every three days since 1975. If I had
: no life like the MS bashing regulars here, I might even peruse some of
: Microsoft's innovative concepts in more depth. But why would I? Their
: immense success with consumers and developers the least 26 years is proof
: enough that they provide excellent products at competitive prices. The fact
: that linux is struggling to maintain a 3 to 1000 computer ratio is proof
: enough that nobody want's anything to do with it on the desktop.
Fun question. Is it possible to patent the "look n' feel" of the wording of
copyright licenses or other contracts? If so, I bet a lot of patents cover
such shenanigans.
More fun. We all know idiots come a dime a dozen. We found the supplier of the
dimes in the form of Bill Gates. That is the only known supplier capable of
supplying enough dimes to populate the Earth with quite so many idiots... like
Winblows morons.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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