Linux-Advocacy Digest #471, Volume #33 Mon, 9 Apr 01 22:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux on Compaq...coming this Summer. (Tim Kelley)
Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor (Goldhammer)
Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: another example of why Linux is brain dead. (pip)
Re: Another Newbie Here ("Paolo Ciambotti")
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. (Goldhammer)
Agenda VR3 review in Pen Computing Magazine (William Kendrick)
Re: MS and ISP's (Bob Hauck)
Re: Inktomi Webmap -- Apache has 60% now. (GreyCloud)
Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure ("Chad Myers")
Re: Q:Windows NT scripting? ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Undeniable proof that Aaron R. Kulkis is a hypocrite, and a luser... (was Re:
Chinese airforce adopted Win2k infrastructure) ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Another Newbie Here ("Adam Warner")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tim Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux on Compaq...coming this Summer.
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 01:06:31 GMT
Anonymous wrote:
> i'm no more loyal to microsoft than i am to any other business. i will
> use thier products right up to the day a better option becomes available
> for the same or lower cost in time, money and aggravation and not one
> moment longer. (please note the use of the words 'time' and 'aggravation'
> in the previous sentence)
> what aggravates endusers is not the same as what aggravates system
> administrators.
Yes it is. It is EXACTLY the same. their computer doesn't work. It
bothers both of them. With windows, the administrator is more or less
impotent beyond reinstalling the latest service pack or application. This
makes everyone unhappy: the user thinks the sysadmin is incompetent and the
sysadmin get rebooters drool.
With unix, the sysadmin has no excuse. With unix, it's NEVER the users
fault: that is unthinkable. With windows, it's ALWAYS the users fault.
If you're going to give the the responsibility of keeping everything
running then at least give me the tools to do it with.
Windows cannot do it.
>the success of windows is conclusive proof that stability,
> absolutely essential for servers, is a far lower priority for the people
> who purchase most desktop machines.
Are you trying to tell me that the sysadmin does not care about the
stability of the pc's on the network? Ridiculous. You are confusing the
home pc user with the business user. they are two entirely different
animals, as much as MS would have you believe otherwise.
> a system that can run for years with
> no crashes is great in principle but if i have to spend years learning
> how to use it is of no practical use to me and i am going to have to go
> with what will work well enough today.
In linux the user has to know far, far less than in windows, as long as
there is an admin there to set it up. That is the way it should be.
--
Tim Kelley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Goldhammer)
Crossposted-To:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.comp.shareware.programmer,comp.editors,comp.lang.java.help,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.softwaretools,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Need your recommendation for a full-featured text editor
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 01:06:51 GMT
On 09 Apr 2001 11:45:18 -0500,
Greg Copeland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Didn't read all of your requiremnets, but EMACS is THE editor. Like it
>or not, it what all other editors try to be.
Vi does not try to be Emacs.
--
Don't think you are. Know you are.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:06:18 -0400
Anonymous wrote:
>
> "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > But Max, I have spent my entire two years with a computer using windows,
> > and
> > > > I have also spent five seconds watching linux boot. I know windows is
> > easy,
> > > > because I can use it, and I am a fucking peasant. Linux is hard,
> > because it
> > > > sometimes comes up in text mode, and I have to think about what I'm
> > doing.
> > >
> > > thus:
> > >
> > > desktop market share
> > >
> > > windows 92%
> > > linux 1%
> > > mac 4%
> > >
> > > ha haaaw!
> >
> > So, what you're saying is that a large portion of the population is dumb as
> > a post, if not dumber.
>
> no, i'm saying that hostility to consumer needs is a bug not a feature.
Crashing and wiping out hours of work is hostility to consumer needs.
This is a bug, not a feature.
>
> > You then go on to prove your own membership in this
> > elite crew by listing some numbers and making the assumption that some of
> > these numbers being higher than others determine which system is better, and
> > that this entire post is somehow related to the ease of use.
>
> if the goal is to defeat microsoft and its emperor ease of use is job
> one.
Unix has had that for YEARS....in fact BEFORE Microsoft ever jumped
on the bandwagon (as usual, Microsoft is the LAST people to get on board).
> if, on the other hand, you prefer to bitch and moan about the
> ignorant endluzers who don't appreciate your brilliance, well
> please do go on.
> just don't expect unix to get anywhere on the desktop anytime soon.
>
> > Woops! Better get that thinking cap back on and try again.
>
> actually i understand the crux of this issue better than you do.
By holding on to data that was absolete 10 years ago....
>
> > > windows rules on servers too?!?
> > > who woulda thunk it...
> >
> > You have no understanding of numbers. More gumbos install Windows on
> > servers than any other operating system, because gumbos are prevalent, and
> > can install little else.
>
> that is precisely my point unixboy
> that is precisely my point
Actually, most gumbos don't install anything.
They hear that Unix is "hard", so obviously, Unix installation must
be more difficult than Windows installation (which is exceedingly
nerve-wracking).
In truth, Linux and Unix installation are both FAR simpler.
ALL drivers and related software are set up and configured
during the initial installation....most of it is auto-detected,
and the person doing the install doesn't even have to worry about it.
That is *TRUE* user-friendliness.
In contrast, Windows DEMANDS that you jump through hoops for hours
on end to get your hardware to work properly...and then, 6 months
later, the whole thing starts to corrupt itself, so that you can
repeat the whole damned process all over again.
This is what Bill Gates and MORONS call "user friendly"
>
> > Let's also not forget that these numbers could
> > easily be inflated because Windows isn't particularly suited to running more
> > than one demanding service.
>
> so what you're saying is customers would rather pay the price for several
> copies of nt rather than deal with one machine running linux which they
> can get for free?
> imagine that!
>
> > And of course, there's the possibility that you just pulled these numbers
> > out of your arse.
>
> they're from i.d.c.
> jackie 'anakin' tokeman
>
> men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
> more even than death
> - bertrand russell
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: another example of why Linux is brain dead.
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 02:08:28 +0100
Craig Kelley wrote:
>
> pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > While you and I _can_ get the old CD-Writer working under Linux, I
> > would not say that the process was "easy".
>
> Hmmm, RedHat wolverine just auto-detected mine and set it up for me.
> It even made a desktop icon for it and installed xcdroast as well.
>
> RedHat 7.1 is shaping up to be a _very_ nice distribution. :)
Well that is a good thing. RH7 didn't detect my plextor. As I don't like
to run beta software, I'll have to wait. Oh, hang on - I forgot that RH7
_is_ beta software. I'd better upgrade then :-) (7.1 looks like being
what 7 should have been). I hope they have not changed their minds about
xinetd as I've just got used to the dam thing, and will I have to
uninstall gcc to replace it with a stable version again?
------------------------------
From: "Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Newbie Here
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:26:37 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "wolfhound"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,people. I just installed Redhat 7.0 on my machine as dual boot. I
> got everything up just fine but I need alot of basics. ( See Linux. See
> Linux run. Run run Linux.) That type thing.
>
> Does anyone know of a source for Linux with training wheels?
One book that I've always been quite fond of is Nicholas D. Wells' "Linux
- I Didn't Know You Could Do That..." (283 pages, CD included).
It takes a cookbook approach to common topics like office suites, gaming,
audio, webserving, e-mail, and more. There's very little technical
detail, just enough info to get you up-and-running on each item. The
author's approach is that you can always buy the expensive 800 page books
later if you want to know how or why the stuff really works.
It may be getting a bit dated by now, but the co-workers who borrowed it
from me sure hated to give it back.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Goldhammer)
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 01:30:18 GMT
On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:33:15 -0400,
Rob Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Right. Fascism is characterized by the *state-directed* control of
>the economy,
Hmm. Sounds like communism.
--
Don't think you are. Know you are.
------------------------------
From: William Kendrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Agenda VR3 review in Pen Computing Magazine
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 01:38:44 GMT
The March issue has a review of the Linux-based "Agenda VR3" PDA.
The review is a little dated (it sounds like the wrote it a few months
ago and didn't get around to publishing it until now), but it's pretty good.
The article doesn't seem to be online yet, but if you can find a printed
copy, the article is around page 52 or 53, and is two pages long.
http://www.pencomputing.com/
FYI, I grabbed a Developers Edition about a month ago (I don't think they're
available any more) and it's a pretty nice machine, especially for the price.
As soon as they get some things ironed out (hand writing recognition is a
little hard, and they're working on ways to drastically increase the system's
general responsiveness), it'll be top notch.
Developing for it is insanely easy, too. I've already written a small app.,
an arcade game, and have begun porting an emulator to it. (The emulator
ran pretty out of the box... I'm just working on making the emulator support
PDA resolution, and creating a nice GUI launcher for it.)
If you're into Linux, you _need_ one of these.
If you're not into Linux, keep your eye on it, because it's going places!
-bill!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/bill/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: MS and ISP's
Reply-To: bobh = haucks dot org
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 01:43:36 GMT
On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:42:54 -0400, JS PL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> MS holds no "right" to be on all computers, but my power company holds the
> "right" to be my sole supplier of electricity. That is a true monopoly.
[snip lots]
You could have just said that you do not believe that there are any
monopolies except government-granted ones and saved us all the silly
analogies.
BTW, you do not have to buy power from your power company. You could
put solar cells on your roof, put up a windmill, or install a generator.
You still have options, so what's your beef? Or are you going to whine
that it might be more difficult or cost more?
> Also the barrier to entry for new grocery stores (like operating
> systems) is extremely low.
How can you say that with a straight face? IBM spent billions on OS/2,
MS spends billions on Windows, and Linux would have cost billions had
it not been done by volunteers. Seems to me that the cost of entry to
the desktop OS market is on the order of several tens of billions of
dollars by the time you've designed and code the OS, done the marketing,
and seeded the applications market. And when you're all done, you still
have lots of people who won't buy your product because MS won't port
Office to it.
Sounds like a high cost of entry to me.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Inktomi Webmap -- Apache has 60% now.
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:50:48 -0700
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, GreyCloud
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Mon, 09 Apr 2001 12:52:03 -0700
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> >>
> >> Good news! Apache now has 60.33% of the total server market,
> >> compared to Microsoft-IIS's 25.26% share. Netscape-Enterprise
> >> is a distant third at 3.79%.
> >>
> >> http://www.inktomi.com/webmap/
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, there is no information regarding secure webservers.
> >>
> >> --
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> >> EAC code #191 3d:21h:47m actually running Linux.
> >> You were expecting something relevant down here?
> >
> >I think IIS is not very secure. Suns news org said something about
> >Compaqs' servers were hacked into again. Doesn't sound secure to me.
>
> It probably isn't, but then, I can't say I know; I'm trying to
> figure out whether Microsoft has dominance anywhere in the server
> sphere. From the looks of it, it doesn't have dominance in
> the non-secure area.
>
> I can also tell you that the Consumer Product Safety Commission site
> was hacked (http://www.cpsc.gov); this is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0.
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/04/09/hack.cpsc/index.html?s=8
>
> is the CNN article; related stories describe other hacks.
>
> http://www.sun.com looks slightly borked right now.
>
> http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-4837854.html?tag=mn_hd
>
> may be what you're describing. This was almost two months ago.
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> EAC code #191 3d:11h:33m actually running Linux.
> No electrons were harmed during this message.
* Have You Heard...Compaq has been left red faced by a defacement
double whammy as two of its sub domains were vandalized by two
different hacking groups?
Publication: vnunet.com
Issue Date: 22 March 2001
Title: Compaq Websites Suffer Double Hack
http://www.vnunet.com/News/1119535
This was the article.
--
V
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 01:37:58 GMT
"David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9arpf3$l7p$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Goldhammer wrote in message ...
>
> >
> >AFAIK, ext2 supports files up to 16Eb. The reason
> >why files >2 Gb on 32-bit machines require the
> >'bigfile' patch has to do with the size of int
> >on a 32-bit machine. But linux on an Alpha doesn't
> >have any 2 Gb "limit". Therefore, the 2 Gb "limit"
> >cannot be considered limitation of Linux. It simply
> >isn't, unless one argues that Linux on an Alpha isn't
> >really Linux.
> >
It _IS_ a limitation in Linux, because few other OSes have
this problem on 32-bit architectures.
> Yes, the 2 Gb limit is simply a case of 2 Gb being the largest value that
> can be stored in an signed 32-bit int. Any application that wants to use
> larger files can do so by using different library calls (changed
> automatically with compiler switches for gcc) and being careful with their
> types in the program. There are also kernel patches to enable larger file
> limits - these have been around for a long time, and should be easy to
> apply. And for 64-bit systems, the limits were never there in the first
> place.
... but you still have to recompile.
> Any big database system on unix (or windows) should allow you to split the
> database files - recent versions MySQL, for example, have no problem with
> that.
Not all big files are database files.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Q:Windows NT scripting?
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 04:22:43 +0200
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chronos Tachyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > DRI is basically a kernel shim for accelerated 3D video support, and not
a
> > full-blown videocard driver. It doesn't even touch the realm of 2D
video
> > support. Even so, DRI comes at the cost of some system stability.
>
> Shall I bring up the Linux framebuffer then?
>
> The Linux kernel is up to it's elbows in graphics code, and it has
> been for quite some time now.
>
> The difference between Linux and Windows is that your can turn it off
> under Linux (for a server, for instance) -- Windows has no way to boot
> into a non-gui runmode [hint: Microsoft, this would be a good thing
> to implement].
XP servers should have it, I've heard.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Aaron R. Kulkis is a hypocrite, and a luser...
(was Re: Chinese airforce adopted Win2k infrastructure)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 04:32:51 +0200
"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ayende Rahien
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Sun, 8 Apr 2001 16:56:46 +0200
> <9apuo5$56u$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> >message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> >> (It'll be interesting to see what can be done against
> >> infrared goggles, admittedly. Most likely they'll
> >> have to develop a good light insulating material made
> >> into a coat, or a thick insulating goo spread on the
> >> face, hands, feet, etc. But I digress. :-) )
> >
> >*Bad* idea. You will be cooked to death in a short while. No heat
> >dissapation. Especially when being physically active.
>
> Heh...whoops, my bad; hadn't thought of that. One might be able to
> strive for the "invisible man with gloves and shoes" effect, but
> I think the enemy will, ahem, see right through that ploy....
>
> Mind you, something will have to be done. The only thing I can think
> of that might take care of the heat dissipation problem is piping
> to a heat exchanger (think liquid-cooled thermal underwear); this
> has certain obvious problems that limit its use. (Either the user
> radiates very hot (bright) from his backpack, or he's attached to a
> vehicle and/or structure with a limited radius of movement, and
> that vehicle will radiate; target the vehicle, and the soldiers
> might have to play "schuck the suit".)
Instead of blocking the heat, it would be better if you could mask the human
heat signature.
Since currently the only use for IR vision is with humans watchers, you
might want to use camoflouge there too.
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Newbie Here
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:02:20 +1200
Hi wolfhound,
> Hello,people. I just installed Redhat 7.0 on my machine as dual boot. I
> got everything up just fine but I need alot of basics. ( See Linux. See
> Linux run. Run run Linux.) That type thing.
>
> Does anyone know of a source for Linux with training wheels?
The Redhat Manuals have the training wheels:
http://www.redhat.com/support/manuals/
And linuxdoc.org is a fabulous resource.
But remember everything will be so radically different that you may feel
despondent and give up the first time. Never mind. You'll probably be
back giving it another go. And then it will all start to make sense. Then
you'll be hooked.
Redhat 7.0 now requires over 100MB of patches to download to fix a number of
bugs and security issues since release. I'm looking forward to 7.1.
Regards,
Adam
------------------------------
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