Linux-Advocacy Digest #738, Volume #33 Sat, 21 Apr 01 01:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Perl and Tcl/Tk: How important are they? (Michael Vester)
Follow up to Redhat has become Scary? ("Adam Warner")
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure (Tim Hanson)
Re: Why left-wing communist assholes hate Reagan. (was Re: Communism, ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Why left-wing communist assholes hate Reagan. (was Re: Communism, ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: What's the point (Roy Culley)
Re: What's the point (Roy Culley)
Re: What's the point (Roy Culley)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Vester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Perl and Tcl/Tk: How important are they?
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:36:34 -0700
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Michael Vester wrote:
> >
> > "Bryant Charleston, MCSE" wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey folks,
> > >
> > > I'm a Linux newbie and I'm reading through a few books and practicing
> > > hands-on to learn Linux -- then Unix. A couple of the books spend quite a
> > > bit of time addressing scripting languages like Perl and Tcl/Tk. As a newbie
> > > to Linux, I'd like to get some feedback on how important these (or any
> > > other) scripting languages are in the real world.
> > >
> > > 1) Should I skip these and continue to learn and master the basic CLI
> > > commands FIRST, or learn them along w/the CLI?
> >
> > Do you mean the shell? There are several included with every Linux
> > distribution.
> >
> > > 2) Which of these scripting languages are the most important?
> >
> > Depends on what you are doing. I invested time in learning Perl. It can do
> > anything the shell and much, much more. Also, Perl is on just about every
> > Unix/Linux system out there. Start at www.cpan.org
>
> Not in the commercial world. Also, there is a version problem with perl.
> I can't remember where the cutoff is, but there's a backwards compatibility
> problem (perl 4.x vs perl 5.x ???)
>
> In any event, anywhere you go, basic shell scripts are the foundation level
> (all of your system initialization is done in bourne-shell scripts).
>
> Therefore, learning shell scripting is a higher priority than perl scripting.
>
> in fact, I'm a *HIGHLY* paid, high-responsibility admin, and I've only
> had to deal with perl once, and never really did get the hang of it.
>
> Everywhere else, perl just adds confusion, because it's no universally known.
> Which leads to a chicken-and-the-egg problem.
Perl does have a steep learning curve. I am finally getting good at it.
But the main point I want to emphasize is that all these scripting
languages share many attributes. If you know one, learning another one is
much easier. My two years of experience in the Unix world (still have
much to learn), I have noticed that many programs use the same command
vocabulary. Even options have common ground like -r for recursive.
>
> >
> > > 3) Are there other important scripting languages that are also widely used
> > > that I should be aware of?
> > >
> > With Unix/Linx scripting languages, learning one gives you a great
> > foundation to learn another. And welcome to the side of light. I too was
> > once a losedos user and tech support of losedos networks.
> >
> > > Thanks for the feedback!
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > ...................................................
> > > Bryant Charleston
> > > A+ Network + MCSE (NT4)
> > > Linux (RedHat 7) Enthusiast
> > >
> > > ....................................................
> >
> > --
> > Michael Vester
> > A credible Linux advocate
> >
> > "The avalanche has started, it is
> > too late for the pebbles to vote"
> > Kosh, Vorlon Ambassador to Babylon 5
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
--
Michael Vester
A credible Linux advocate
"The avalanche has started, it is
too late for the pebbles to vote"
Kosh, Vorlon Ambassador to Babylon 5
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Follow up to Redhat has become Scary?
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 16:29:54 +1200
Hi all,
I suspect Randall Ivy meant to reply to the group instead of emailing me
by mistake. I'd just like to respond to these points:
"Lets say that Red Hat builds a distribution that installs just like good
ole Win 98. No command line option, just goes directly into
Gnome/Nautilus. And it is free until the next version, which has a little
fee tacked on, you know to cover the cost of the media. Next time the fee
will be a little be larger."
1. Redhat will not do away with the command line so that's a non-issue.
2. If Redhat decided to only sell a CD version of the main distribution
then anyone is entitled to buy one copy and distribute it as many times as
they like for free.
However 2 would hurt Redhat's business and reputation so I'd think that
outcome is unlikely as well.
Right now I'm downloading the Redhat 7.1 ISO 1 by modem from a New Zealand
mirror. For free.
And in response to this point:
"At a certain point Red Hat will have the market strength and resources to
either buy or destroy the other Linux distributors. Open Source be damned
if there is only one player in town."
Randall soon you'll go "I get it!". I could take Redhat right now and
repackage it as my own distribution. It's been done to Redhat in the past.
Mandrake is very popular. Early releases of Mandrake were just Redhat with
GNOME replaced by KDE (at a time when Redhat wouldn't incorporate KDE
because it was a threat to the continuing availability of free software).
If you research Redhat's history you will find that they have supported
the free software community.
The open source software market is going to be huge. There will be room
for more than one player. Even Microsoft could undergo an IBM-like
transformation in time.
Regards,
Adam
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.singles,alt.linux,alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 00:33:24 -0400
Nomen Nescio wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roberto Alsina) wrote:
> > Nomen Nescio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ian Davey) paused from prancing about in frilly
> > >undergarments long enough to stick a gerbil in his bum and write:
> > >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Nomen Nescio
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >> you're getting far too wound up for usenet, it's not that important, take a
> > >> >> few valium and relax. It'll all seem better in the morning.
> > >> >
> > >> >you write like a homosexual
> > >>
> > >> You write like someone who doubts their sexuality, it's normally the ones in
> > >> the closet who go around calling everyone else homosexual.
> > >
> > >that's something homosexuals say
> >
> > Only insecure people care about others' tastes.
>
> windows is a pretty cool system. i like it just fine.
You write like a shit gourmet.
Shit 3.1
Shit 95
Shit 98
Shit NT
Shit 2K
Shit ME
Shit CE
How much more shit are you gonna eat, jackie?
> jackie 'anakin' tokeman
>
> men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
> more even than death
> - bertrand russell
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:31:54 -0700
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure
Chad Everett wrote:
>
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 00:58:52 -0700, GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >webgiant wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 06:11:02 GMT, "Electric Ninja" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >"Andy Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >>
> >> >> Jan Johanson wrote in message <3ab419a9$0$48766$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >> >> >http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/11929.html
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Lockheed Martin is working on the design of the new US CVN 77 aircraft
> >> >> >carrier, and Microsoft Federal Systems is to co-operate in the ship's
> >> >> >information technology architecture. This will, we kid you not, be based
> >> >on
> >> >> >Windows 2000. Microsoft Consulting Services will meanwhile chip in with
> >> >> tech
> >> >> >support during the ship's software design, development and deployment."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Cause the Navy knows what everyone else already knows, W2K is rock solid
> >> >> >enough to trust lives to.
> >> >
> >> >For getting work done I love Win2000 like a charm but I'm scared to death to
> >> >have something like that running one of our aircraft carriers.
> >>
> >> Wasn't that USA-China gaffe over a NAVY spyplane?
> >
> >After looking at the whole thing... it was a deception. Its a trick..
> >We gave China Windows XP!!! ;-)
> >
>
> The Chinese don't want Windows XP, or Windows anything. They are going hog-wild
> with Red Flag Linux cause they're tired of being dependent on Windows. Now if
> only the US Government would wise up. At least the NSA has the brains to go with
> Linux.
I don't think that's quite true, although I wish it were. From what
I've seen the majority of Chinese computer users love Windows, as long
as they can get it free, and 99% get it free. This puts Red Flag Linux
in a difficult position of being no more free than Windows and facing an
uphill struggle, despite support by the government.
FWIW.
--
Real computer scientists don't program in assembler. They don't write
in anything less portable than a number two pencil.
______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
With Seven Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Why left-wing communist assholes hate Reagan. (was Re: Communism,
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 00:42:23 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >>>>> Aaron R Kulkis writes:
>
> >> If you get caught with a women that is not your wife,you can go to jail
> >> for this;the women might be put to death.
>
> Aaron> What part of adultery is against the law do you not understand?
>
> It's a freedom thing, you would not understand.
Remind me to come over and get your wife pregnant while you're at work.
>
> --
> Andrew Hall
> (Now reading Usenet in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh...)
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why left-wing communist assholes hate Reagan. (was Re: Communism,
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 00:43:27 -0400
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:19:13 -0700, Gunner © wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:08:59 GMT, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> If you get caught with a women that is not your wife,you can go to jail
> >> >> for this;the women might be put to death.
> >>
> >> Aaron> What part of adultery is against the law do you not understand?
> >>
> >>It's a freedom thing, you would not understand.
> >
> > Not in Muslim countries, according to THEIR laws.
>
> Please don't confuse "Muslim country" with "Religious/Islamic State",
> the two are not the same thing.
>
> And yes, it is a "freedom thing", and freedom tends to get stomped all
> over when religion sticks its nose into government (regardless of whether
> the religion happens to be Islam or some other religion)
Name one country where adultery (translation: attempting to cuckold a man)
is legal.
Just one.
>
> --
> Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
> elflord at panix dot com
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.singles,alt.linux,alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 00:45:55 -0400
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Nomen Nescio
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:20:06 +0200 (CEST)
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ian Davey) eeped:
> >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Nomen Nescio
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> clacked:
> >> >> <snype>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > because it would cost them more than they paid for thier machine in the
> >> >> > first place
> >> >> > ya retard
> >> >> > jackie 'anakin' tokeman
> >> >> >
> >> >> > men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth - more than ruin,
> >> >> > more even than death
> >> >> > - bertrand russell
> >> >> Upgrading a kernel. Well, I have SUSE Linux, I goto the suse ftp site,
> >> >> download the latest rpm kernel, drop into super user mode, then rpm -Uvh
> >> >> kernel.rpm and voila, reboot, and I have a new kernel. Is it that hard,
> >> >> no, so stop spreading FUD on issues you have no experience.
> >> >
> >> >why look, it's another lying sack of shit unix headcase! he snips the
> >> >context and then accuses me of ignorance! way to go fuckhead. if you
> >> >ever wonder why linux has gone nowhere with endusers reread yourself.
> >>
> >> We should just count ourselves lucky we don't have you as an advocate...
> >
> >i don't do advocacy dimwit
> >
> >> you're getting far too wound up for usenet, it's not that important, take a
> >> few valium and relax. It'll all seem better in the morning.
> >
> >you write like a homosexual
>
> And how would you know?
>
> For the record: my understanding is that homosexuals are more intelligent
> and more sensitive than average. So "writing like a homosexual" does
> not seem to be a very effective insult... :-)
pursuing this line of argument is digging your own grave.
>
> But there is an issue. Assume $100,000 [*] a year for a seasoned computer
> professional. This means that a typical kernel rebuild (15 minutes)
> is going to cost approximately $12.50 in labor costs alone.
>
> How scandalous.
>
> There are, admittedly, additional costs. Going from 2.2 to 2.4 will
> require the replacement of a few utilities, mostly firewall and
> connectivity stuff (pppd, ipfwadm (2.0) => ipchains (2.2) => ??? (2.4)).
>
> [.sigsnip]
>
> [*] this will vary, depending on many factors, of course.
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- and how much did a Windows install cost, again? :-)
> EAC code #191 4d:11h:42m actually running Linux.
> I'm here, you're there, and that's pretty much it.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roy Culley)
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 05:56:15 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <Bu4E6.5750$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Roy Culley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <p2BD6.4999$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> >
>> > Reiserfs is still not 100% as I understand it. Still minor bugs and
>> > problems with the kernel.
>>
>> Instead of writing your usual FUD why not try reiserfs? I've used it
>> since it was a patch to the 2.2 kernel. It is excellent considering
>> the journaling was added late on in its development (many thanks to
>> SuSE here who have pushed this and supplied devlopment resources). Is
>> any software 100%? Reiserfs is very close.
>
> When talking about your file system, there shouldn't be *ANY* bugs. MS is
> very loathe to make changes to it's file system, and when it does, it spends
> eons testing them. FAT32 started testing before Windows 95 came out, but
> didn't actually appear in a product until nearly 2 years later.
>
> Any possible bug in your filesystem should scare the living hell out of you.
> One bug can corrupt your entire disk.
You really are an obstreperous bastard. The reason why reiserfs was
not incorporated into the first 2.4.0 release was not because of bugs.
SuSE, a major contributor to reiserfs development, has been using it
on their servers for a long time. They have provided it with their
distributions for a long time. On the SuSE mailing list many people
would ask if reiserfs is stable enough. SuSE people themselves replied
saying they used it on servers with huge partitions and that it was
rock solid. To say that MS is loath to release critical software
before doing eons of testing has to be one of the biggest jokes
ever. MS hasn't given a toss about quality until the Internet became a
big thing. They are now producing a fairly reliable operating system
but only after the huge embarrassment of so many bugs being made
public via the Internet.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roy Culley)
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 05:36:03 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) writes:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 22:50:40 +0200, Roy Culley wrote:
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> "spicerun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> solve so many problems. I've used rpm and deb and deb is far superior.
>> The bad news is that the most popular Linux distro's, RedHat, Mandrake,
>> SuSE, use rpm.
>
> Why do you think this is ? It's because deb is *NOT* far superior at all.
> For someone building packages, it is not as good.
I admit I have never created a deb or rpm package. There is a book on
making rpm packages which no doubt helps developers. As debian package
management is superior I presume that is the reason why it is harder
to build packages for it. As to why rpm is more prevelant that is simple.
RedHat have been the most widely used distro for several years. Full
credit to RedHat for making the source for rpm open. Debian was/is very
much in the minority so nearly all developers would provide rpm's or
someone else would as soon as a new version of an app was released. Also
debian have official maintainers for each deb package. This provides a
certain amount of quality control at the expense of newer versions being
available in a timely fashion.
Debian does have problems in as much as there is such a long delay between
releases and once a release is stable very few updated packages are
available for it. You have to go to the testing and unstable versions of
packages if you want to remain current. I'm hooked on Debian now but it
must change if it wants more users to adopt it. An analogy would be that
Debian is like a nationalised industry as opposed to a privatised one. In
fact that is probably closer to the truth than an analogy. Debian is not
dynamic enough to keep up with the rapid changes that occur within Linux.
Progeny seem to be addressing this to a certain extent. I think this will
be their greatest challenge to gain acceptance. Stormix did a great job
in producing a Debian linux distro. It is sad that they didn't survive. I
hope Progeny learn from this.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roy Culley)
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 05:06:09 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"spicerun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Roy Culley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Don't mention it and thanks for 'correcting' my spelling. Anyone running
>> RehHat is in a far better position for installing apps because there are
>> RedHat rpm's available for almost every app version upgrade that comes
>> out. The reason I gave up on SuSE is because new SuSE rpm's for later
>> versions are very slow to appear. No problem if the app isn't distro
>> specific but many times it is. Until Linux has a unified file system
>> structure and standardised boot sequence this problem will exist. In the
>> majority of cases you don't need to refer to HOWTO's for most Linux
>> apps. You are just exagerating.
>
> Not as much as you are implying. True, I haven't looked at "thousands of
> HOWTOS", just a few of them. One of the reasons I've had to scramble to a
> few of those HOWTOs was because whatever I installed (I usually compile my
> apps) didn't work right away. I just can't tell you the feeling I get
> when I find a HOWTO, then discover RedHat has a HOWTO also that isn't the
> same since it has these little tweaks that aren't mentioned anywhere in
> the distro-neutral HOWTO. ppp on RH7.0, for example, is one of these
> applications that I had to find RedHat's specific HOWTO to make it work.
> Very Irritating.
I only use RedHat these days on my sparc ultra-5 at work (soon to be
'upgraded' to SuSE as RedHat support for sparc is next to nill these
days). All the RedHat specific HOWTO's are instaled on the system. If
you build apps from sources then you have to accept that some reading
is required. Thankfully for most software these days it as simple as
./configure; make; make install. I recently compiled evolution from
source and that was a test of determination. Got there in the end
though.
>> If I
>> really need the latest version of an app I will build it from source.
>
> I really prefer to build from source....just as long as I can get all of
> the sources I need (and not have to compile more than 4 libs before I can
> compile the app).
>
>> This isn't a good solution however if Linux is to be adopted by your
>> average PC user.
>
> Well, Get Ready....Windows XP is fixing to give us a lot more average PC
> users trying out Linux.
Lets hope so. The best advice to give a Linux newbie posting to c.o.l.a
is point him in the direction of newsgroups that provide support. Just
get them out of c.o.l.a for their own sakes.
> Have a good weekend. Regards.
And the same to you.
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