Linux-Advocacy Digest #765, Volume #33 Sat, 21 Apr 01 22:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft ("Steve Long")
Re: Tired of XEMACS, moving to VIM (.)
Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? (Charles Lyttle)
Re: Red Hat has become scary? (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? (Charles Lyttle)
Re: Red Hat has become scary? (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Windows 2000 Rocks! (Terry Porter)
Re: Red Hat has become scary? (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: bank switches from using NT 4 (Charles Lyttle)
Re: Red Hat has become scary? (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Aaron Kuklis Arrested! (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Aaron Kuklis Arrested! (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Tired of XEMACS, moving to VIM (David Steinberg)
Re: Windows 2000 Rocks! (Matthew Gardiner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:54:26 GMT
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:XC9E6.5592$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> >> And when said 'accelerated X configuration' actually appears _slower_
> >> than the Windows equivalent... you think that's really putting it
through
> >> it's paces?
> >
> > Not when its' improperly set up...
>
> How do you work that out?
RTFM. (Or in this case RTFHT) Granted, they could have made X configuration
a bit easier. I've yet to see a decent utility for it. SuSE's SAX and SAX2
are hardly what I would call adequate. Xconfigurator is next to worthless.
>
> >> And my experience with my home machine and couple of others tells me
> >> otherwise.
> >
> > Perhaps you'd be better served sticking with Windows or buying a MAC,
> > until things stabilize and become less technical?
>
> Let me see, how long has Linux been lurking in the sidelines...
Long enough to bump Windows NT from every server at the office. :)
No liscense fees and no BSODs. Phoenominal uptime (Years). Sad note: On
Saturday night, some idiot rammed a utility pole (sheared it completely off
at the ground actually) and killed power. We saw the damage was bad enough
that itd' take at least 10 or 12 hours to restore it. Decided to down them
all. Some of those boxes had just passed the three year mark, too!
------------------------------
From: "Steve Long" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 20:58:07 -0400
"> Jonas wrote:
>
> really. Name one piece of microsoft code that didn't originate
> on Unix or Macintosh.
>
Windows. It originated on a Xerox workstation which the Mac people stole
from Xerox. Recall (if you are old enough) when Apple threatened to sue
Microsoft for copying the Mac "look and feel". Apple dropped the suit
because Xerox initiated a suit against Apple to protect their interests. In
response, Apple dropped their suit against Microsoft so Xerox would drop the
suit against Apple.
So those of you who like to bash Gates for copying everyone else, remember
that Apple copied from Xerox too.
Almost every significant computer technology advacement has come from IBM or
Xerox, with IBM having the bulk of them. Just a fact, like it or not.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To:
gnu.emacs.help,alt.religions.vim,alt.religion.emacs,fj.editor.vi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Tired of XEMACS, moving to VIM
Date: 22 Apr 2001 01:10:10 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Edward Rosten wrote:
>>
>> > I am just so tired of XEmacs. It crashes all the time. It does not have
>> > drag and drop support. Lisp is next to impossible to learn. I have to
>> > type basillions of stupid keystrokes to get the most trivial tasks
>> > accomplished. My left wrist is hurting from hitting C- and ESC- keys
>> > constantly. I have recently discovered VIM, a great programmers' editor
>> > (www.vim.org). All keystrokes are easy and fast, everything works, it
>> > creates backup files and so on. I am switching.
>>
>> I won't share my thoughts on *Emacs with you, but you won't get any
>> better from user friendly trash such as vim. Real programmers use
>> something better like cat. Personally, I use echo and can highly
>> reccomend it to anyone.
> novice edits code with ed
> tyro edits code with ex
> expert edits code with vi
> master edits code with emacs
> guru doesn't edit code; uses the command cat > file.c
Yes. In fact, I keep a hard drive around with all 22 megs of emacs
on it just so I can drop it into broken AIX boxes to directly edit
password files.
Its so handy.
You retard.
=====.
------------------------------
From: Charles Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 01:24:18 GMT
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Charles Lyttle
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Sat, 21 Apr 2001 14:30:09 GMT
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >>
>
> [snip for brevity]
>
> >>
> >> Further, the same author that wrote the gcn article (which quotes from the
> >> usni article) also clarifies his statements in a followup article:
> >> http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/november9/6.htm
> >That last one is even worse than my story. A divide by zero in the
> >controller for a fuel valve caused the entire LAN to go down crashing 27
> >remotes? Industry (mostly) fixed that problem 30 years ago. For what its
> >worth, I had an NT machine I was working with bring down an entire LAN
> >of over 1000 machines. It was called the "ping of death". Some
> >applications could cause the NT software to start issuing network pings
> >at high speed. These faults often also caused a BSOD, but not always.
>
> Yeah, but is the BSOD on the machine pinging, or one of the
> many machines being pinged? :-)
>
> [.sigsnip]
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> EAC code #191 5d:12h:04m actually running Linux.
> We are all naked underneath our clothes.
The BSOD machine was pinging. BSOD doesn't necessarly stop everything.
But this wasn't a true BSOD. I had gotten an error message of the "the
application has performed an illegal operation..." type. I just
restarted the application and continued on. However, the illegal
operation started something pinging. In our case MS fixed the ping of
death by blaiming the hardware. We had to install smart hubs that would
block the pings.
--
Russ Lyttle
"World Domination through Penguin Power"
The Universal Automotive Testset Project at
<http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Red Hat has become scary?
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 13:35:04 +1200
Chad Everett wrote:
>
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:32:28 +0000, Matthias Warkus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >It was the Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:15:20 +1200...
> >...and Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Hmm, good question, when are we going to get one? Every time there is a
> >> discussion some prick always wants to have a "committee" to discuss
> >> things, thus slowing things down even more. Well as far as I know, we
> >> go by the UK Constitution
> >
> >There is no such thing as a constitution for the United Kingdom if you
> >don't count the Magna Carta.
> >
>
> So much for that New Zealand educational system Matthew is so proud of.
It was only a guess. Mind you, if a constitution is drawn up, there more
things to be considered such as what roll the treaty of waitangi will
play.
Matthew gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: Charles Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 01:34:58 GMT
Monte Milanuk wrote:
>
> Charles Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > A good project for Linux open source would be a ladder logic
> > development/run-time enviornment. It should have provisions for
> > constructing and printing ladder diagrams. It should have a runtime
> > enviornment that intreprets the diagram routing signals to/from the
> > external hardware. For emergency situations, it should have provisions
> > for over-riding the state of objects (password required).
> >
>
> I know... it's one of the things that is driving me to try to learn to
> program... i.e. I'm very used to ladder logic, after dealing w/ large
> programs on Reliance Automax DCS and AB PLC5 racks, and since in my new job
> I will probably be not allowed near the techie type stuff (I'm an operator,
> now ;p ) I will have to settle for doing some home automation stuff. And to
> me, it seems like a decent ladder logic implementation would be just the
> ticket for stuff like irrigation systems, lighting schemes, burglar alarms,
> and what not. Hopefully someone more skilled than I will start it, because
> if it has to wait for me to learn enough to start it, it'll be a long time
> coming ;)
>
> Monte
Might start with something like SPICE and work from there. You can draw
ladder diagrams and run them in SPICE. It just isn't the best for that
and lacks lots of I/O functions that would be required.
--
Russ Lyttle
"World Domination through Penguin Power"
The Universal Automotive Testset Project at
<http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Red Hat has become scary?
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 13:35:59 +1200
> >Hmm, good question, when are we going to get one? Every time there is a
> >discussion some prick always wants to have a "committee" to discuss
> >things, thus slowing things down even more. Well as far as I know, we
> >go by the UK Constitution, and we have a couple of extra laws surround
> >it, such as the Human Rights Act and the Treaty of Waitangi, which form
> >the basis of the government and legal system. As for the election, it
> >hasn't happened yet, however, in normal parliamentary circumstances the
> >governor general would dissolve parliament and call for a fresh
> >election.
> The UK hasn't got a constitution. At least not a wriiten one.
> Tho it might seem otherwise with the EU taking over everything
> these days.
It was only a guess. HOwever, I'm not overly concerned whether NZ has a
constitution or not.
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 Rocks!
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 22 Apr 2001 01:39:09 GMT
On Sun, 22 Apr 2001 01:29:26 +0100, Hullo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It just rocks! What's wrong GNU boy? Scared?
Why would anyone be scared of an anonymous, illiterate Wintroll ?
>
>
> "Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 20:01:48 +0100, Hullo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > It's great.
>> >
>> >
>> Was it the color you liked, or perhaps it has a nice smell ?
>>
>> --
>> Kind Regards
>> Terry
>> --
>> **** ****
>> My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
>> 1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
>> Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
>> ** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
>
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Red Hat has become scary?
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 13:47:11 +1200
> I come from a culture where we are renown for getting along with
> everyone. I know more about other country's history than my own. I know
> more about United States geography than most Americans. I was in a college
> bar in Ithaca and after listening for hours about how superior the
> American education system is to the rest of the world. I asked, "What is
> the capital of New York state?" They looked at me like I was a real
> Canadian moron and everyone at the table exclaimed it was New York city. I
> said it was my first time to the great state of New York but even I know
> that the capital city of New York state is Albany. I impressed the group
> since I know all 50 states and their capitals. My geographical knowledge
> is vastly superior.
>
> In Canada, we learn about everyone else. In the United States, they learn
> only about themselves and that basically consists of memorizing president
> names and battle dates. Knowledge like that is not really helpful when
> traveling abroad. In fact, I have found that Americans are the least
> clued in about what is happening outside their country. The smart ones do
> but that certainly did not come from their education system.
Visited Canada, very nice place. oh btw, in History Classes:
Fifth Form: Russian Revolution, The rise and fall of the third Reich,
the origins of the first world war, the cold war, Vietnam war, korean
war (Age: 15-16)
Sixth Form: Vietnam, Cold War, American Revolution (Age: 16-17)
Seventh Form: Elizabeth, James, Charles I, Oliver Cromwell, Charles II,
and in the last term, The treaty Of Waitangi. (Age: 17-18)
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: Charles Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: bank switches from using NT 4
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 01:49:28 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Jon Johansan wrote:
> >
> > Says good-bye to expensive, hard to manage unix crap too...
> >
> > http://www.vnunet.com/News/1120413
> >
> > Zenon Chomyszyn, technology manager at the Halifax, told Computing that the
> > company's Unix systems are too expensive to maintain, and that he hopes to
> > reduce these costs by installing W2DC, despite a high initial outlay.
> > "The benefits will be the management of the systems and boxes rather than a
> > saving in purchase price," he said.
>
> Jon, he must be smokin' whatever you've been using, eh?
>
> >
> > Chomyszyn added that the operating system will increase the availability,
> > reliability and scalability of the bank's databases, and will reduce
> > operational costs by managing a single server rather than thousands.
>
> Obviously, Chomyszen is a pointy-haird-boss, not an IT professional.
>
Quiet. Thats my retirement fund.
Be kind to a hacker : Run your bank on MS software!
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
> can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
--
Russ Lyttle
"World Domination through Penguin Power"
The Universal Automotive Testset Project at
<http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Red Hat has become scary?
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 13:53:15 +1200
> > Names of dictators that killed thousands, yet, not one word from the US:
> >
> > Pol Pot
> > Alberto Penche
> > Stalin
> >
> > If you are going to jump up on ya soap box and declare war on those who
> > oppress the masses, please do it consistency.
>
> So you argue that the US should have stayed out of World War Two
> because it is obvious that no single nation, not even them, can take
> on all present and future dictators?
If a country is going bitch about a countries human rights record, first
they need to look at them selves (the Southern States, "Separate but
Equal" Policy) and why they had not objected to the mass killings in
places such as Cambodia and Chile, in fact, they actually supported
chile.
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Kuklis Arrested!
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 13:55:40 +1200
> Novell Netware is dead. Why train and work in a dead technology.
I agree, thats like training to become a MSCE. All I was pointing out is
if you already have those skills, why not put them to some good use?
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Aaron Kuklis Arrested!
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 13:57:31 +1200
> Of course, those people are, generally, the ones running the "advanced"
> platforms such as Linux, right? :)
What possible benefits does HTML have over normal text? Apart from being
able to click on a click and the browser automatically loads?
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Steinberg)
Crossposted-To:
gnu.emacs.help,alt.religions.vim,alt.religion.emacs,fj.editor.vi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Tired of XEMACS, moving to VIM
Date: 22 Apr 2001 02:02:15 GMT
Edward Rosten ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: I won't share my thoughts on *Emacs with you, but you won't get any
: better from user friendly trash such as vim. Real programmers use
: something better like cat. Personally, I use echo and can highly
: reccomend it to anyone.
Oh, come on. Everyone knows that REAL programmers don't need their OS to
manage file systems for them.
It's all about "hexedit /dev/hda" for me.
--
David Steinberg -o)
Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 Rocks!
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 14:08:13 +1200
Give me a 15,000 word essay on why Windows 2000 is superior to
Linux/UNIX, from the top down, from the user interface right down to the
nitty gritty details of the OS. Also, use a valid email address to back
up your post. I have the balls to use my real email address, do you?
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
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