Linux-Advocacy Digest #765, Volume #34 Fri, 25 May 01 06:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) ("David Brown")
Re: Warning to new users of Windows XP ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("David Brown")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: Warning to new users of Windows XP ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("Matthew
Gardiner")
Re: Win2k Sp2 Worked perfectly (Donn Miller)
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("green")
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("green")
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
("green")
Re: In AD 2001... ("Osugi Sakae")
Re: Win2k Sp2 Worked perfectly ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Ayende Rahien")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:59:42 +0200
>
>>There may be tiny differences
>>beyond our current measurements and theories, but these differences must
be
>>very small indeed. In air, there are also tiny differences - I don't know
>>whether they are big enough to be measurable, but they are not normally
>>significant.
>
>Now, why bother making a claim (there are no differences) and pointing
>out it is the premise of the argument (there may be a difference), and
>thus pissing all over the idea of free inquiry to begin with, and then
>immediately falsifying your own position by admitting that, in fact,
>there might be tiny differences beyond our current measurements and
>theories?
>
For most practical purposes (i.e., to an accuracy of at least 10 significant
digits over the useful range of frequencies), the speed of light through a
vacuum is constant regardless of frequency. Beyond these limitations, it
may or may not vary.
>You see, the thing is, nobody ever tried to understand how GreyCloud's
>statement could be correct and comprehensible, before claiming they were
>neither. It might be quite possible that, had the response to his
>claims been, "there may be some extremely minor differences in the speed
>of light in a vacuum for different frequencies of EMR beyond what our
>current measurements or theory can predict, but it would have to be
>several orders of magnitude less than what you are describing,
>GreyCloud."
>
>Instead, we get "that can't be true, GreyCloud, because we were taught
>Maxwell's equations were perfect and absolute, so you must be wrong and
>idiotic to suggest otherwise." A lot. Over and over.
>
It's a question of scales, and of level of complexity. As we get deeper
into more complex and more accurate theories (from basic EMR and wave
theory, through relativity, quantum mechanics, and towards string theories,
quantum fluxes, and whatever), we loose the simplicity of earlier theories
that are still accurate enough for practical purposes. Since GreyCloud
should a clear lack of understanding of the bottom end of the scale
(claiming 88% of "c" as a figure), it makes sense to correct him on the same
or similar levels, rather than going on about the most advanced theories
currently in vogue.
>
>Because it pisses me off when someone who is comprehensible and
>reasonable but mistaken is called "wrong".
>
Defending the weak is a nobble cause, but I'm afraid you're going to have to
face facts one day - *you* may have reached the conclusion that it is never
justifiable to call someone "wrong" instead of "mistaken", but you have a
long way to go before you can convert everyone else. So don't get too
worked up about it. Add a filter to your newsreader to change "wrong" to
"mistaken" if it makes you feel better - in 99% of cases, this will match
what the poster means just as accurately.
>HE didn't claim that light speed differs by 12% for different
>frequencies of light in vacuum; that was a misinterpretation by someone
>else. He just claimed that light doesn't necessarily travel at c in
>outer space, for what seems to be potentially valid reasons.
>
See my quote in another post for what GreyCloud actually said. But given
that his claim was what you think (i.e., a potential, theoretical, tiny
difference), then your defense is justified. Equally, if you assume his
claim was for the 88% figure, then the attacks from myself and others are
also justified. At the next level, given that I believed you to be
defending the 88% claim, my arguments against *you*, and my claims of your
lack of understanding, are justified. As it turns out, you believed your
were defending a claim of a tiny theoritical difference. This puts a rather
different light on your arguements, which now make far more sense. It also
shows that you do understand far more than first appeared (when I referred
to you making yourself look stupid, I meant accidently, such as in this
thread, not intentionally).
In fact, virtually all of this thread unravels at this point. For example,
when I say GreyCloud is talking rubbish, I am thinking of the 88% figure,
while when you reply that this must be proved, you are thinking of the
theoretical differences. We have both assumed that the contents of the
original statement was obvious to each other, and argued with a
misunderstanding of the other's basis. Having established this, I think
most of this thread is concluded.
The only thing left to argue about is what GreyCloud actually said. I've
quoted him in another post, and I think your interpretation is mistaken.
Clearly, you think mine is the mistaken one. Perhaps GreyCloud would like
to enlighten us?
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Warning to new users of Windows XP
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 04:05:39 -0400
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> In article <9efaat$emd$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Matthew Gardiner wrote:
> >
> >"Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Unknown"
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > My prediction is that within 5 minutes of it going gold the warez groups
> >> > will be flooded with it.
> >> >
> >> > flatfish
> >>
> >> And universal activation keys will be for sale everywhere. "Hey meester,
> >> you wannabuy XP key? No? How bout my seester then? She a virgin."
> >>
> >> Mundie was right; there is more money to be made off closed-source.
> >
> >Aka, it is easy to screw a large number of naive people using close-source.
> >
> >Matthew Gardiner
> >
>
> Oh hell! It's easy as shit to screw a Windows user!
>
> They don't have any fucking brains.
the epitomy of "dumb fucks"
>
> --
> Charlie
> -------
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:09:57 +0200
Chad Myers wrote in message
<9OhP6.24873$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>
>What's even more hilarious about it, is even The Register (known for
fabricating
>news on-demand and editorializing in reports and passing them as facts)
Have you any concrete examples of that?
>has yet to come up with even one concrete example where SP2 has had
problems.
>The last report I saw, where they were trying their hardest, they could
only
>come up with a "few" users having problems "some of the time" with
hibernation
>on laptops. I have a crappy Dell PoS laptop and even it hummed along with
>SP2 just fine, including about 20+ hibernations in the past 3-4 days due
>to flight-hopping and such.
>
The Register reports what it learns. Some readers have reported problems
with SP2, and it passes them on. Remember, SP2 has only been out for a
short time - it is far too early to determine if it causes many problems or
not.
By the way, there was a recent The Register article which commended several
aspects of MS software (Outlook, or Outlook Express - I can't remember
which).
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:20:17 +1200
"~¿~" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:P37P6.1686$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9ei5rg$hm7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > 14 to 16 MB's of memory? You have one of the most F'd up Office
> > > configurations imaginable, or your normal.dot is 10MB's strong. No, I
> > doubt
> > > that as I don't think you can code with VBA.
> > > Winword, the executable name for Word, is running on right now on this
> pc.
> > > MS Outlook Express, which you love to hate but love to use, as you did
> to
> > > make this post,
> >
> > Get a life "~¿~" , or better know as, Mr "I'm too chicken to use my real
> > name".
>
> I love how you clipped out the relevant part of my post -- the part about
> your assertions of gross memory usage of the MS product vs. the other word
> processors. Typical ad hominem low brow retort.
> My posts here average one a day. Your average is ???? Who is in need of
this
> 'life' you speak of?
> Trying to divert attention away from the fact that you have once again
> squarely driven your foot in your mouth by making claims you can't back up
> with facts is only surpassed by the way you turn to juvenile attacks when
> caught doing so. Besides, your the type of guy that I have zero fear of.
Your immaturity is impressing no one.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:22:14 +1200
An internet connection working perfectly, removed a couple of installations,
Gozilla and Logitech Camera software, rebooted, connected to the net, and it
fails to load saying that IE cannot find the site. I then re-installed
Windows, and amazingly everything starts to work again. Never had anything
like that happen in Linux.
Matthew Gardiner
"Jan Johanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3b0d8342$0$56152$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9ei5rg$hm7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > 14 to 16 MB's of memory? You have one of the most F'd up Office
> > > configurations imaginable, or your normal.dot is 10MB's strong. No, I
> > doubt
> > > that as I don't think you can code with VBA.
> > > Winword, the executable name for Word, is running on right now on this
> pc.
> > > MS Outlook Express, which you love to hate but love to use, as you did
> to
> > > make this post,
> >
> > Get a life "~¿~" , or better know as, Mr "I'm too chicken to use my real
> > name".
> >
> > If you read my post I said I was testing out Windows 2000 SP2 since Jon
> had
> > raved on about how great it was going to be, and how fast it is etc etc.
> I
> > am running now it, this is my second install, the first install fucked
up
> > after two days.
>
> ahahahahah - you know, without even asking the details and without a shred
> of proof - I'm perfectly confident in declaring you are full of crap. I
> think we've rolled out over 30,000 installs of SP2 at 18 clients so far
and
> not one NOT ONE has "fucked up" - and here comes the great anti-MS zealot
> and, surpise? his is fucked up. you are SO predictable...
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Warning to new users of Windows XP
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:28:15 +1200
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Thu, 24 May 2001 17:16:36 +1200, "Matthew Gardiner"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >lol
> >
> >btw, I am still testing SP2. Fucked up once and had to re-install Windows
> >2000 from scatch. So much for a great OS by Flatfish's account.
>
> >Matthew Gardiner
>
>
> No.... So much for your ability to follow directions when you
> installed it.
>
> It's on 3 systems now and works perfectly.
Read the post, I never once links SP2 with Windows 2000 fucking up.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:32:35 +1200
Hence the reason why I have assumed by Jon's maturity that he is either a
office clerk or a rugby player who JUST has the intellectually ability to
move a mouse over an icon and click.
Matthew Gardiner
"Interconnect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9ekus7$pto$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9ei62d$huv$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/
> > > >
> > > > Maybe you should use a search engine next time.
> > > >
> > >
> > > doesn't meet the criteria I gave
> >
> > How can you be a Network admin if you can even install the easiest Linux
> > distro out on the market.
> >
> > matthew Gardiner
> >
> Because *anyone* can get on a Newsgroup and claim to be anything they
want.
> My *real* Job is a Brain Surgeon.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 05:05:13 -0400
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Win2k Sp2 Worked perfectly
Ayende Rahien wrote:
> Windows does it via RPC and it's called Terminal Services, which is a little
> like X.
XFree86 runs on Windows as well:
http://xfree86.cygwin.com/.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:15:39 +1000
>
> MS has support for their own mouse on their own OS before anyone else?
Now,
> that's a surprise.
yeah suprised me to.
>
> Win98 finds an intellimouse without any problem - it calls it a standard
> 2-button mouse.
my copy (admitidly came from gateway oem modified) claimed it was a
2-button mouse with wheel. (not auto detected had to select it in setup).
> What it doesn't do is include drivers for the extra bits
> (the wheel/middle button) on the CD - this is an extra. Windows CDs tend
to
> have a bare minimum of usable drivers - e.g., they have drivers for lots
of
> video cards, but only for low res, non-accellerated modes. Everything
else
> in an installation relies on a pile of 3rd party CDs.
>
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:18:01 +1000
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> green wrote:
> >
> > "Chronos Tachyon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
in
> > message news:RyZO6.9067$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > On Wed 23 May 2001 07:35, green wrote:
> > >
> > > > um just a question
> > > >
> > > > how would I set up linux to work like (not using winframe or citrix
> > > > metaframe) to keep a users programs running even though they logout
so
> > > > they resume where they left off but have the option to close the
session
> > > > (close programs if they aren't coming back)
> > > >
> > > > just a link would be fine. (setting up xterminal servers)
> > > >
> > > > thanks
> > > > bye.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Something like screen(1) would work great for terminal programs, and
with
> > > some juggling VNC can do the same for X apps. I assume you mean
"program
> > > is exactly as I left it" and not just the usual state management
stuff,
> > > correct?
> > >
> >
> > yes I mean as the user left it. not have each program reload and restore
> > users session.
> >
> > even store it to disk (memory image like a suspend to disk) and resume
if
> > they log on again
> > would be good to conserve memory.
>
> That's pretty much cutting-edge stuff outside of advanced IBM mainframe
OS's.
>
Pity :(
>
> >
> > I considered vnc but the clients won't be running a x client only the
server
> > so vnc would run on the server computer as a client and a server so
that's
> > no good.
> >
> > the only way I can think of is having xdm (or kdm gdm) accept several x
> > connections, but it doesn't allow for logging of but leaving the users
> > programs running or in suspend state.
>
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:21:22 +1000
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> green wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > JS \\ PL wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > JS \\ PL wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have to say, Linux Mandrake 8 was looking real damn good.
Support
> > for
> > > > all
> > > > > > my hardware (for once) easy set-up, even seting up networking
and
> > > > connection
> > > > > > sharing was painless. Good newsreader - Knode, pretty stable OS.
I
> > even
> > > > > > liked the fact that it stayed connected to the Internet when
> > switching
> > > > users
> > > > >
> > > > > this has been a fact of Unix family operating systems since they
were
> > > > > first networked (i.e. 1970's)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > (unlike Win2K)
> > > > >
> > > > > Another admission that Mafia$oft is over 30 years behind in basic
> > > > technology.
> > > >
> > > > I was wrong. It's a post install regedit in WINNT that I didn't know
> > about.
> > >
> > > And using regedit is all intuitive and newbie-friendly how, exactly?
> > >
> > sort of like setting up wftp on linux using text files.
> >
>
> Linux never claimed to be "user friendly"
> and yet, it's no more difficult than Windows
>
> what's up with that?
>
Windows is only difficult if you try to use it effectively
(optimize it to your hardware, get rid of what you don't need, trim the
registry, set up posix compliance...)
------------------------------
From: "Osugi Sakae" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: In AD 2001...
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:25:03 +0900
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Charlie Ebert"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant most people are to Linux and
> the GNU.
>
> They just don't seem to understand that Linux isn't a company.
>
> It's more like the MASONS.
>
> Financial sucess, one way or the other has no bearing on it's
> development.
>
> Linux is NOT a corporation.
>
You mean you understood Ray's post?
--
Osugi Sakae
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Win2k Sp2 Worked perfectly
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:19:21 +0200
"Donn Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> > Windows does it via RPC and it's called Terminal Services, which is a
little
> > like X.
>
> XFree86 runs on Windows as well:
>
> http://xfree86.cygwin.com/.
>
Yes, I know.
But if you are using Windows, you might as well use TS.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:20:51 +0200
"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9el4sd$pil$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> An internet connection working perfectly, removed a couple of
installations,
> Gozilla and Logitech Camera software, rebooted, connected to the net, and
it
> fails to load saying that IE cannot find the site. I then re-installed
> Windows, and amazingly everything starts to work again. Never had
anything
> like that happen in Linux.
>
Of course, *nothing* to do with external stuff, like maybe an ISP screwup.
------------------------------
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