Linux-Advocacy Digest #34, Volume #34 Sun, 29 Apr 01 08:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Does Linux support "Burn-Proof" CDRW's (pip)
Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts ("surrender")
Re: Endeavour shuttle and windows (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Unwelcome changes in Linux advocacy. (Jasper)
Re: Does Linux support "Burn-Proof" CDRW's (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Does Linux support "Burn-Proof" CDRW's (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts ("surrender")
Why Linux is paralyzed ("jimbo")
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) ("billh")
Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) ("billh")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does Linux support "Burn-Proof" CDRW's
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:14:02 +0100
Terry Porter wrote:
>
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 01:49:10 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > But yet you have no application like:
> >
> > CD Architect
> > SoundForge.
> > Vegas audio/video
> > Cubase
> > Samplitude
> > Acid
> > Cakewalk
> > Sonar.
> > Logic Audio
> Someof us do other things than play with audio, Flatfish.
There is nothing like Cakewalk or Cubase to allow me to do my midi stuff
(well nothing any good) under Linux.
> > Nor do you have any of the plugins availible for those applications,
> > which can be shared amongst the various applications via Direct-X.
> Sorry mate, Linux doesnt use DirectX.
Which is one of the reasons that porting games is a pain.
> The really coolpart is that you get to see whats happening,and whats
> being installed, and where. You even get to chose where things go.
> Now I know our resident Wintroll prefers 'install shield' as it shields
> him from his own ignorance, and prevents said ignorance, from keeping
> him up at night, in a world that mystifies and terryfies him :)
You mean like RPM does. Hmmmmmm.
------------------------------
From: "surrender" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:17:07 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Unknown"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote something like:
> Linux on the desktop?
> A joke at best, some poor fools job at worst.
>
> Take a P166 with 64 meg and load Linux Mandrake 7.x on it and Win98SE
> and see which one is more responsive. Linux is slow as shit... So much
> for Linux on legacy hardware, unless of course you like looking at a CLI
> then Linux screams....Of course any newbie forced to use the cli will be
> screaming as well. Try loading kde or Gnome and see the system crawl.
>
What about WinXP on a p166 with 64M huh?
cause if you take the latest mandrake (well 8.0 ~= 7.2), you need to
compare it to the latest windows...
BTW I'm running gnome 1.4 on a p200/48M and I don't have any problems.
Currently I'm running pan, gftp, xchat, opera, xterm, gimp and playing an
mp3 with xmms and it's still extremely responsive. And all this is done
after having the system (with X!) run for nearly 3 weeks.
Ok, gimp takes some time to load, but when compared to photoshop, that's
nothing!
PS A friend of mine, running win98 on a p2-350/64M had his pc crash
yesterday while he wasn't even using it. Must be because of the high
uptime he had already achieved: 1week and 5days
--
Greets,
surrender
--
$ apt-get moo
(__)
(oo)
/------\/
/ | ||
* /\---/\
~~ ~~
...."Have you mooed today?"...
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Endeavour shuttle and windows
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:24:52 +1200
Marcello Barboni wrote:
> It seems that the endavour space shuttle uses windows os on the onboard
> computers (I picked this up on sci.space.shuttle), does anyone know if
> thi is true? If it is, at least we know why they're having problems....
>
> Marcello Barboni
>
Russian Space Station MIR, 15 years, and only two computer crashes, and
from my memory they were running Digital UNIX (DEC). First the chinese up
the anti against the US by buying airbus aircrafts after all the pocket
pissing Boeing did, and now, the International Space (US, major backer)
station is facing more computer glitches than old faithful MIR did, in
short, lets get the Russians to do all the programming, it seems they do a
better job than Microsoft.
Matthew Gardiner
--
Disclaimer:
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jasper)
Subject: Re: Unwelcome changes in Linux advocacy.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:23:40 GMT
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:05:38 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Neary)
wrote:
>
>You're equating using windows with being a thief. Possibly a
>better comparison might be to describe windows advocates as victims
>of the Helsinki syndrome - they have been held hostage for so
>long by MS that they now feel an empathy with them. the only way
>to help these guys out is to show them the error of their ways -
>to nurse them out of their shells and show them that there is a
>better way.
>
After complaining about the general attitude of Linux advocates you
then immediately adopt a condescending and demeaning stance toward
Windows users.
Find a dictionary and look up the word hypocrisy.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does Linux support "Burn-Proof" CDRW's
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:28:33 +1200
> There is nothing like Cakewalk or Cubase to allow me to do my midi stuff
> (well nothing any good) under Linux.
5, 6, 7th form, I used an Atari for all my midi work when I studied music,
which did a pretty good job for a computer that was 10 years old.
>> > Nor do you have any of the plugins availible for those applications,
>> > which can be shared amongst the various applications via Direct-X.
>> Sorry mate, Linux doesnt use DirectX.
>
> Which is one of the reasons that porting games is a pain.
OpenGL, OpenAL, and SDL are mighty fine gaming API's.
>
>
>> The really coolpart is that you get to see whats happening,and whats
>> being installed, and where. You even get to chose where things go.
>
>
>> Now I know our resident Wintroll prefers 'install shield' as it shields
>> him from his own ignorance, and prevents said ignorance, from keeping
>> him up at night, in a world that mystifies and terryfies him :)
>
> You mean like RPM does. Hmmmmmm.
Please elaborate on that comment please.
Matthew Gardiner
--
Disclaimer:
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does Linux support "Burn-Proof" CDRW's
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:32:02 +1200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> But yet you have no application like:
>
> CD Architect
> SoundForge.
> Vegas audio/video
> Cubase
> Samplitude
> Acid
> Cakewalk
> Sonar.
> Logic Audio
>
> And I could go on for hours........
>
> Nor do you have any of the plugins availible for those applications,
> which can be shared amongst the various applications via Direct-X.
>
> Nor do you have support for the hardware that makes them works as
> well...
>
> Sorry Terry "The Porter"... but you lose, big time....
>
> So tell us, how is that latest compile going?
Gee, you're a DeeJay, well, what talent we have here, a person who can sync
three records, throw in some beats and call it a music piece! Get a life!
learn a instrument, get some culture, write 3 pieces of music, then come
back and call yourself and "artist". But until then, you are nothing more
than a talentless moron with a large pair of ear-phones on.
Matthew Gardiner
--
Disclaimer:
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:36:56 +1200
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Take a P166 with 64 meg and load Linux Mandrake 7.x on it and Win98SE
>> and see which one is more responsive. Linux is slow as shit...
>
> Take a P166 with 32 meg and load Linux Mandrake 8.0 on it and Win98SE. At
> the start of Installation, Mandrake 8.0 complains the system is "low on
> resources" and may fail the installation (it did the same with Mandrake
> 7.2). Mandrake 8.0 recommended installation uses KDE, which performs like
> a dog on this system. Much smaller window managers (and less functional)
> perform much better. Windows 98 SE offers the full system and runs without
> any problems.
>
>> How about multimedia?
>
> I've noticed on my faster machine (400MHz PII) Linux + XFree86 doesn't
> play MPG files very well. On Windows 98 SE they work just fine. Overall
> graphics on thius system performs poorly compared to Windows 98 SE.
>
So you no longer run SuSE Linux 7.1? because it has informed you that your
hardware is faulty. Ignorance in action people, you can't help but burst
out laughing.
Matthew Gardiner
--
Disclaimer:
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: "surrender" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:38:28 GMT
In article <TKSG6.6928$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "surrender"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote something like:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Unknown"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote something like:
>
>> Linux on the desktop?
>> A joke at best, some poor fools job at worst.
>>
>> Take a P166 with 64 meg and load Linux Mandrake 7.x on it and Win98SE
>> and see which one is more responsive. Linux is slow as shit... So much
>> for Linux on legacy hardware, unless of course you like looking at a
>> CLI then Linux screams....Of course any newbie forced to use the cli
>> will be screaming as well. Try loading kde or Gnome and see the system
>> crawl.
>>
> What about WinXP on a p166 with 64M huh? cause if you take the latest
> mandrake (well 8.0 ~= 7.2), you need to compare it to the latest
> windows...
>
The funny thing is when linux users blame Microsoft for the high system
requirements for Win2k, WinXP, ...
The answer is always something like: 'Then buy a new computer! Have you
seen how cheap pc parts are nowadays?' or 'Nobody should be using a
a computer with less than 700MHz.'
Kinda paradoxical...
--
Greets,
surrender
--
$ apt-get moo
(__)
(oo)
/------\/
/ | ||
* /\---/\
~~ ~~
...."Have you mooed today?"...
------------------------------
From: "jimbo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Why Linux is paralyzed
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:13:23 +0100
Why Linux is paralysed before it starts.
I do belive that someone somewhere has a fully working desktop system that
runs with ease on Linux but they are few a far between them.
But I have never seen any computer being sold in a retail outlet "PC World"
Etc running Linux for the Desktop.
The reason being its just too difficult to configure for retailers and I
doubt if they could handle the problems that come with Linux.
EIDE is just one of many problems that you encounter with Linux.
EIDE based CD Writers cheaper and more common than SCSI but all Linux
distributions seem to only cater for SCSI.
This means you have to implement SCSI emulation..
Why ?
Take the latest version of Suse 7.1 for example asking you to alter the
"/sbin/init.d/boot.local file " when it does not exist and is now in" /etc"
!
That you should re-set your link for to emulated SCSI
ln -sf /dev/scd0 /dev/cdrom
and if you want to use a second CD drive with emulation
ln -sf /dev/scd0 /dev/cdrom1.
But the CD writer is /dev/cdrecorder and not cdrom1.
Each distribution of Linux seems to have a different way of getting SCSI
emulation.
Even magazines say it's easy all you have to do is compile a few extra
modules:-
alias scd0 sr mod
options ide-cd ignore=hda
pre-install sg modprobe ide-scsi
pre-install sr mod modprobe ide-scsi
pre-install ide-scsi modprobe ide-cd
then it is just a matter of doing cdrecord scanbus as root, and then find
the device ID.
Why can't this all be done for the user it's a known problem?
This is just one of many problems with Linux and why it will die just like
OS2.
Jimbo
------------------------------
From: "billh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:52:27 GMT
"T. Max Devlin"
> Post your address, please, so we can know where your little "kill zone"
> is, and avoid it.
To avoid "it", you simply avoid invading my home and you avoid endagering me
or my family.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:55:33 +1200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> Linux on the desktop?
>> A joke at best, some poor fools job at worst.
>
> I know I'm rising to your trolling, but the hell...
Me, I'm adding my 10 cents NZ$, which is around 4 cents US$.
>
>>
>> Take a P166 with 64 meg and load Linux Mandrake 7.x on it and Win98SE
>> and see which one is more responsive. Linux is slow as shit...
>
> I have a K6-2 (250MHz), dual booting between Win98SE and SuSE Linux
> (mostly SuSE anyway, but it has a lot of buggering about been done to
> it)
>
>> So much for Linux on legacy hardware, unless of course you like
>> looking at a CLI then Linux screams....Of course any newbie forced to
>> use the cli will be screaming as well. Try loading kde or Gnome and
>> see the system crawl.
>>
>
> I'm using KDE and do not have any such problem
I'm using KDE 2.1.1 with the latest libraries, running Kernel 2.4.2-4GB,
with libc 2.2 and I have not experienced any problems. If fact, the
responsiveness has improved greatly since 2.0.1 (That was including via
default on SuSE Linux 7.1 CD-ROM.
>
>> How about multimedia?
>>
>> USB MIDI interfaces?
>> High end Sound cards?
>> Hell, even run of the mill sound cards utilizing ALL THE FEATURES?
>
> I don't have any USB MIDI devices so can't comment on that.
> Sound Blaster cards are well supported. Hell even the weird VIA sound
> chip built into my mainboard works fine.
Neither, however, who ever claimed that the serious muso would use LInux?
most people I talk to use Mac's, hence your (Flatfish's) statement about
Windows superiorty is based on psuedo facts at best.
I have a SoundBlaster Live! and does everything I need it to do. The
average user at best will use, at the most the microphone input once and a
while, whilst 90% use the sound card to listen to mp3s and CD's.
>
>>
>> Nope.....Linux dies a quick death.....
>>
>> Star office is free....
>>
>> So why isn't it taking over MSOffice by the boatload?
>> Hell StarOffice is even available for Windows but yet it is being
>> almost completely ignored?
>> Seems like the fortune 500 could save millions in licensing fees by
>> switching to Star office, even under Windows.
>>
>> So why aren't they?
>
> Because it is even bigger and slower than MSOffice. Word Perfect is
> better though.
However, one must look at why? go over to OpenOffice and see that there is
quite a large layer of code to ensure maximum portability with minimum code
change. Compare that to Microsoft Office 2000, I would hate to see a
person attempt to port it to Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, IRIX, BSD and numorous
other OS's with minimum code changes.
>
>>
>> I have a RIM Blackberry that I use for my day job. Supported under
>> Linux?
>> Nope!
>>
>> State of the art and chances are it will NEVER be supported under
>> Linux.
>> Why?
>>
>> Because there is virtually NOBODY USING LINUX!!!!!!!
>
> Fair point. However, the number of Linux users is increasing all the
> time, and more and more companies are interested in providing support
> for their devices under Linux (eg Creative Labs).
Un-true, unlike you (flatfish), I actually have a global perspective, and
in New Zealand, it is taking off in a big way. Numerous stories over the
past year, such as the Army Simulation, A large hardware chain in New
Zealand (look back in around february), Social Welfare, the New Zealand
Government website, and some of the high profile places where Linux is used.
>
>>
>> Sure it is used in back room server operations, so are ball bearings
>> in my wheel bearings on my car.
>> Point is nobody cares.
>
> I'll just take the ball bearings out of your car. See if you care or
> not then.
He (flatfish) has a car? from from what I hear, he (flatfish) spends most
of his time in the basement of his (flatfish) Mum and Dad's basement
trying to squeal out some sort of tune with his 2 turn tables, whilst
spending his (flatfish) money on obscure pieces of hardware, then posting
on COLA claiming that Linux doesn't support it.
>
>>
>> And most certainly, nobody cares about Linux....
>>
>> Linux is dead before it has even started and XP will put yet another
>> 100 nails in it's coffin.
>>
>> Linux is a time waster and is meant for bit tinkerers and losers.
>> Spend all your time compiling kernels to run shit applications, that's
>> what Linux is about.
>
> ALL OSes have LOTS of shit apps. It's the few good ones that matter.
> The trouble with Windows is crashes too much to get the most of the good
> apps it offers
I've seen more shit apps for Windows, that I have for Linux. Pointless
apps, virus's, memory hoggers, "desktop enhancers" that have 99% CPU
process time so that you can do fuck all in the fore ground.
>
>>
>> The masses have spoken and Linux does not even have an honorable
>> mention....
>>
>
> Not true. I have friends who really don't know a whole lot about
> computers, but still have a passing interest in Linux.
Nope, thats just you (Flatfish). Most users I have spoken to have a
genuine interest in it. Also, most don't buyer a new contraption for their
computer each week to some how prove Windows is superior to Linux. Most of
my friends have a life outside a computer, and maybe thats what you
(Flatfish) should do.
Matthew Gardiner
--
Disclaimer:
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
Running SuSE Linux 7.1
The best of German engineering, now in software form
------------------------------
From: "billh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:00:26 GMT
"T. Max Devlin"
> >Damn right it is ethical to protect myself or my home from a home
invasion.
> >It's ethical to protect yourself. That's why I carry an M1911A1.
>
> I'm not second-guessing your morality, dude. But if you are not aware
> of your requirement to double-check your ethics before you do something
> merely because it is legal, then you are not ethical, and so whether any
> action you might take "is ethical" is doubtful.
When is it not ethical to protect one's self or his home?
> Of course it is ethical to protect yourself and your home from
> "invasion", and you have a right to use a gun, and potentially deadly
> force. But if you're going to start putting together sentences like "it
> is ethical to kill someone when..."
And what did I say?
and treat it like an excuse not to
> double-check the real circumstances, as if your thought experiments in
> the past excusing deadly force as ethical somehow means you are free
> from liability for killing another person unnecessarily, then you are
> not acting ethically, whether you are acting legally or not.
This portion of the thread was just to show you and Roberto that your
blanket statement regarding the possibility of prosecution was wrong for the
scenario Roberto developed. As I said, in that scenario of a thief with one
foot in your house and another out with you property in his hands, in some
jurisdictions deadly force is legal and the property owner will not be
prosecuted. I cited the law in Texas. Both you and Roberto were wrong.
>
> Do you see what I'm saying. You seem to be responding as if I'm
> questioning your morality, and getting all defensive to the point where
> you are insisting on principle that ethics is just a set of rules of
> what you can and cannot do. It isn't; it is a way of determining what
> you can and cannot do, that is true, but it is the result, not the set
> of rules, which determine whether the process is working, whether you
> are acting ethically.
>
> You are using the law as an excuse to be judge, jury, and executioner,
> not to protect your life or property. That is not an ethical position
> to take, sorry.
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
>
------------------------------
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