Linux-Advocacy Digest #466, Volume #34 Sat, 12 May 01 23:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Who votes for Sliverdick to be executed: AYEs:3 NAYS:0 (1 ABSTAIN) (Fulcanelli)
Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software (Jeffrey Siegal)
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux ("Tom Wilson")
Re: MS should sue the pants off linux-mandrake (was: Re: Winvocates confuse me -
d'oh!) ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux ("Tom Wilson")
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux ("Tom Wilson")
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux ("Tom Wilson")
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (Clark Safford)
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux ("pookoopookoo")
Re: Microsoft standards... (was Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product) (The
Ghost In The Machine)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Fulcanelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Who votes for Sliverdick to be executed: AYEs:3 NAYS:0 (1 ABSTAIN)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 20:06:43 -0600
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Re:
>
> "Let's take a nice, Glen "Sliverdick" Yeadon style pure-democratic
> vote:
>
> All for putting Glen "Sliverdick" Yeadon up against the wall, and
> filling him full of lead, say "AYE!" All opposed, say "NAY"
>
> Let's see how much Sliverdick likes democracy now."
>
> > AYES:3
> > NAYS:0
>
Like anyone on the left would waste their time on a vote for such a
tyrannical measure unless they absolutely had to. The Left is capable
of seperating the wheat from the chaff whereas the Right ever gets them
confused.
> ABSTAIN:1
>
> An example of the dangers of pure democracy is all well and good,
> but I reject pure democracy even if Glen advocates it and wouldn't
> vote either way on the matter; there is no moral justification for
> the action or the mass decision behind it.
>
> _
> Rob Robertson
------------------------------
From: Jeffrey Siegal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman what a tosser, and lies about free software
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 19:12:29 -0700
Lee Hollaar wrote:
> What provision of the current Copyright Act do you feel is
> unconstitutional, or otherwise preempted by the Constitution?
> And why do you feel that it is?
I would say that the retroactive term extensions (and possibly, though
not necessarily, prospective term extensions if they differ
significantly in character from that envisioned by the Framers) violate
the "limited term" language of the Constitution.
I would say that the restriction on the distribution of
anticircumvention technology (not really part of what is traditionally
known as "copyright", but part of the Copyright Act) violates the First
Amendment, if that restriction is applied to source code and certainly
if it applies to academic papers.
I have no idea if this is what Max was talking about, since I don't read
his posts.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 02:16:13 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9dkptl$n6m$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:VNlL6.58$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:9dkoad$kk8$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:ZPkL6.40$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:Z1iL6.651$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > > GCC is perfectly free for Windows, just as it is for Linux. In
> fact,
> > > > there
> > > > > are dozens of free compilers for Windows.
> > > >
> > > > While I haven't looked at any of them for several years and my
> opinions
> > > > therefore are dated, most I saw weren't worth the trouble to
> implement.
> > > You
> > > > were better off just shelling out for a Borland compiler (For 3.11)
or
> > > > Visual Studion (9x/NT). One of these days I may try GCC for grins
and
> > > > giggles but am afraid to find out that it works better than VC6.
> Nothing
> > > > worse than shelling out the dough for Visual Studio 6 Enterprise to
> find
> > > > that a free product is better.<g> I truly don't want to find this
> > out...
> > >
> > > I wouldn't be very surpirsed to find out that GCC is better than VC6,
> VC6'
> > > compiler is, after all, over 4 years old.
> > > However, I would use VC just for the IDE. I wonder if you can hock GCC
> to
> > > VC, the way Intel Compiler does.
> >
> > The senior guy at our hack shop was wondering the same thing and we may
> try
> > it at some point. A pet project I want to do is a Visual-Studio-like
> > front-end for X systems. IDE's are a pretty big weakness there.
KDeveloper
> > is starting to head in that direction but still has a way to go. The big
> > things I want are auto completion, multiple language and compiler
support,
> > and Wizard-Based project generation (but with a less obtuse interface
than
> > IProject and IConfiguration). Someday, when I have the time......
>
> Wait for VS.NET, should have all of those, I'm waiting for my copy of the
> beta, so far, the IDE looks very good.
I'm talking an IDE specific to *nix. Some future project as well as the next
phase of the present one are for that platform. VS doesn't enter into it at
all. I'll have to mess with VS.NET soon enough...
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: MS should sue the pants off linux-mandrake (was: Re: Winvocates confuse
me - d'oh!)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 17:17:57 +0200
"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:v0mL6.61$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9dkpl6$mp1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:qFlL6.54$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >
> > >
> > > His original specifications, while quite tricky, were still workable.
A
> > lot
> > > of sound ideas and concepts exist there from a modularity standpoint
and
> > > what happened was a true shame. It would have been quite nice had that
> > > original specification been adhered to. The bloat I referred to
happened
> > > when the government IT guys and bureaucrats decided to throw
everything
> > but
> > > the kitchen sink into it. Not so much a committee thing as a
gang-bang.
> >
> > Yeah, I've to agree with that.
> > Give me C-like language with Ada's good ideas behind it... (no, Java
> doesn't
> > cut it, not even close).
>
> Now, Java has some potential... If they can get the speed thing worked
out.
>
> I'd love to see someone make a good version that compiles native
> executables. Leave the byte compiler for Web-Based programming and give us
> application writters a tool to use. The platform specific market is a long
> way from being outmoded, yet. When a high speed Internet infrastructure
> becomes more common, then they can worry about byte compilation and
> multi-platform executables.
There are native compiler to windows & linux that I know off, but the speed
wasn't what I was talking about.
Java has some of Ada's safety, but none of it's new type creation.
Ada has generics, in a more useful way than C++'s templates, too.
Ada can also do low level stuff, too.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 02:18:14 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9dkptp$n6m$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:tPlL6.59$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Aware of that. I don't like that sort of system when it comes to
military
> > projects. They're just too important. The system works fine for State
and
> > Local government, though.
>
> I'm certain that they ignore this law when it comes to important stuff,
> however, what the desk clerk in the <place where you get enlisted? no idea
> what the word is in english> doesn't really need a specialized OS.
Commerce infests every corner of the process.
>From what little I know of it, a pencil and pad would probably do...<g>
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 17:21:25 +0200
"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:N7mL6.63$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > Wait for VS.NET, should have all of those, I'm waiting for my copy of
the
> > beta, so far, the IDE looks very good.
>
> I'm talking an IDE specific to *nix. Some future project as well as the
next
> phase of the present one are for that platform. VS doesn't enter into it
at
> all. I'll have to mess with VS.NET soon enough...
In this case, be sure to let me know about it, I would certainly like to use
a VS class IDE on *nix system.
Not to mention a good debugger.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 17:22:27 +0200
"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:G9mL6.64$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9dkptp$n6m$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:tPlL6.59$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > > Aware of that. I don't like that sort of system when it comes to
> military
> > > projects. They're just too important. The system works fine for State
> and
> > > Local government, though.
> >
> > I'm certain that they ignore this law when it comes to important stuff,
> > however, what the desk clerk in the <place where you get enlisted? no
idea
> > what the word is in english> doesn't really need a specialized OS.
>
> Commerce infests every corner of the process.
>
> From what little I know of it, a pencil and pad would probably do...<g>
Have you tried to backup a 10,000,000 records on pencil & pad database? :-D
Berucracy is slow enough as it is.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 02:26:41 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9dkr53$p5t$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:N7mL6.63$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
> > > Wait for VS.NET, should have all of those, I'm waiting for my copy of
> the
> > > beta, so far, the IDE looks very good.
> >
> > I'm talking an IDE specific to *nix. Some future project as well as the
> next
> > phase of the present one are for that platform. VS doesn't enter into it
> at
> > all. I'll have to mess with VS.NET soon enough...
>
> In this case, be sure to let me know about it, I would certainly like to
use
> a VS class IDE on *nix system.
> Not to mention a good debugger.
It probably won't be GPL if it ever gets written...But no problem. Just
don't hold your breath waiting!<g> My plate is very full right now and that
is one bugger of a project.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 02:27:40 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9dkr57$p5t$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:G9mL6.64$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:9dkptp$n6m$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:tPlL6.59$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > > Aware of that. I don't like that sort of system when it comes to
> > military
> > > > projects. They're just too important. The system works fine for
State
> > and
> > > > Local government, though.
> > >
> > > I'm certain that they ignore this law when it comes to important
stuff,
> > > however, what the desk clerk in the <place where you get enlisted? no
> idea
> > > what the word is in english> doesn't really need a specialized OS.
> >
> > Commerce infests every corner of the process.
> >
> > From what little I know of it, a pencil and pad would probably do...<g>
>
> Have you tried to backup a 10,000,000 records on pencil & pad database?
:-D
> Berucracy is slow enough as it is.
It'll keep them busy and out of trouble, that's my point! <g>
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 02:29:25 GMT
Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9dkr53$p5t$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:N7mL6.63$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Ayende Rahien" <Don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >
> > > > Wait for VS.NET, should have all of those, I'm waiting for my copy of
> > the
> > > > beta, so far, the IDE looks very good.
> > >
> > > I'm talking an IDE specific to *nix. Some future project as well as the
> > next
> > > phase of the present one are for that platform. VS doesn't enter into it
> > at
> > > all. I'll have to mess with VS.NET soon enough...
> >
> > In this case, be sure to let me know about it, I would certainly like to
> use
> > a VS class IDE on *nix system.
> > Not to mention a good debugger.
>
> It probably won't be GPL if it ever gets written...But no problem. Just
> don't hold your breath waiting!<g> My plate is very full right now and that
> is one bugger of a project.
Glade and xxgdb seem plenty to me. Although I do agree that the
current Visual Studio (C++ anyway) 6 is good. Better than Borland,
thanks to Microsoft luring away the original Borland developers.
Chris
--
Free the Software!
------------------------------
From: Clark Safford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 22:52:33 -0600
Ayende Rahien wrote:
> "Clark Safford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> > errr... I don't think anyone cared when MS bundled edlin w/ DOS. They
> would've
> > cared had MS made the editor next to impossible to replace w/ a
> third-party
> > editor.
>
> I wasn't talking about edlin here. No one would use it if you had something
> better avialable.
I know. I was drawing an analogy. There has to be a distinction drawn between
what has traditionaly been considered applications (where third-party companies
have the ability to compete) and what is now considered an integral part of the
OS. Otherwise, third-party software companies get pissed and call their
congressmen.
[snip]
> > > It's a good thing as long as it's something that the OS should provide.
> > > Today, can you really sell an OS without a browser? Can you *find* an OS
> > > that doesn't come with a browser?
> > > Today, when so many computers are sold with CDR, I don't see why I
> should
> > > pay about as much as I paid for the OS just to be able to burn CDs.
> > > As for media player, it's the same as a browser.
> >
> > Why shouldn't OS's have an integrated word processor? Spreadsheet?
> Database?
> > Why should a browser be considered an extension of an OS? And why
> shouldn't a
> > user be able to easily uninstall the bundled browser if they'd prefer to
> use
> > something else?
>
> Wordproccessor, I agree, and it have, pretty basic one, though.
> Database? Does the average user need this?
> Don't know where you are getting at, but you get a database with Windows, if
> you know how to set ODBC correctly.
I'm asking why MS should have to stop at browsers. I'd also like to ask why
they only seem to integrate things when they're having difficulty gaining
market share.
> Spreadsheet is not something that your average user need.
Let's replace that cute little calculator with Excel. Or would that impact
MS's revenue stream?
> Because today, it's pretty much an essencial need to have a browser, so yes,
> I think that it's a logical extention of the OS.
I guess it is if you want to surf the net. Surfing your computer could be done
in other ways.
> As for using another browser, nothing prevents that from anyone. Including
> registering it as the defualt browser/emailer/news reader/whatever you want.
> You can't uninstall it, it is used as the file browser, GNOME does it, as
> well as KDE, I believe. Nobody sees something wrong *there*, do they?
Those are two choices. Where are the choices w/ MS? There used to be choice.
Third-party filemanagers were a dime a dozen. They're all gone now, and I
think that's a shame. Those companies investers probably do, too.
> There *is* a theoretical way you can possibly do this, replace IE with
> something else that implements the same interface.
> However, this require either:
> A> Major amount of hacking, including doing several stuff that has red,
> huge, blinking, bleeding, screeming No! on them.
> B> *Major* redesign of the system. Including almost certainly great loss of
> efficency.
Or design an OS that does what OS's do and leave out all those things that
'enhance the Windows experience'.
> Not to mention that it also require something that implements the whole of
> what IE does, to my knowledge, nothing else does it.
Why would anyone bother trying to improve on MS's design? It's not as if
they'd make any money from their efforts.
------------------------------
From: "pookoopookoo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 22:59:13 -0400
> Cutting to the chase:
> IIS5: 8001
> Tux2: 7500
Hehehe,
2000 Server: 500$
Linux: 2$ (for the CD you copy it on)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft standards... (was Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 02:59:37 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Edward Rosten
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Thu, 10 May 2001 15:58:12 +0100
<9de6ou$ne1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chris Ahlstrom"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Jan Johanson wrote:
>>>
>>> Perhaps when you graduate from the hell that telnet is - I mean, how
>>> limiting! - into the year 2000 and beyond you'll realize how silly your
>>> hanging on to the past is. I mean, all this worship of telnet and the
>>> command line. You sound like an Amish person swearing off technology! I
>>> can't remember the last time I needed the command line or even felt the
>>> urge to time travel into days of old...
>>
>> I'd fire up X-Windows over ssh if I could find a decent free (ie. no
>> corporate timed-out software or shareware) X-Windows server for Windows.
>
>have you tried XFree86 (Win32 port from Cygwin, IIRC).
I for one tried it, am very very favorably impressed. There are a couple
of glitches (the xterms fired off from twm don't handle escapes
during their initial startup for some reason -- one gets a lot
of \[) and they could use a slightly more intelligent window manager
than twm -- but overall it works very well.
(I could build my own copy of a wm, I guess. They do have
a development kit. :-) )
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- still trying to build my own wm, as well
EAC code #191 12d:00h:21m actually running Linux.
Linux. The choice of a GNU generation.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
