Linux-Advocacy Digest #939, Volume #34 Sun, 3 Jun 01 16:13:13 EDT
Contents:
Re: UI Importance ("Stephen S. Edwards II")
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the (G. Wayne Hines)
Re: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!! (Nigel Feltham)
Re: What does Linux need for the desktop? (Teamware Linux)
Re: UI Importance (Woofbert)
Re: UI Importance (Woofbert)
Re: UI Importance (Woofbert)
Re: UI Importance ("Brian Lewis")
Re: Argh - Ballmer (Nigel Feltham)
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (Pete Goodwin)
Re: What does XP stands for ??? ("Robert Morelli")
Re: SourceForge hacked! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux is shit (Pete Goodwin)
Re: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (Karel Jansens)
European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting good,
Microsoft buries it in the dust!) ("Stephen S. Edwards II")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Stephen S. Edwards II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 12:20:31 -0700
"Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9fda7d$o8l$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$51
>
> A good article about why people think so highly about UI.
> It's a good approach, I believe.
>
> Any comments?
Cool article. Thanks. :-)
I can understand his interest in user interfaces.
In any kind of multimedia-related field, UI design
skills are a definite requirement. I have a good
friend in the multimedia biz that designs kiosks
for a living.
Making a decent UI is fun, but it is difficult,
because you have to consider many things that
you don't have to consider for most command-line
oriented applications. Anyone remember AmigaVision?
WHOOHOO! :-)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (G. Wayne Hines)
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:14:40 GMT
In an earlier episode, Marc Schlensog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> It isn't the inability to use a mouse properly, you little ignorant shit.
> The problem in question is, that excessive use of keyboards and mice lead,
> due to their unnatural and mostly unergonomic shape, to the so called
> carpal tunnel syndrom, which is said to be very painful. And you know how
> many ppl don't have an education on how to properly use a computer (there's
> more to that, than just a mouse).
Mouse and keyboard use are two possible causes. (Typewriter
keyboards apparently also caused the problem.) It's the
repetitive muscle movements that are more to blame than the
shape of the mouse or keyboard, although the "unnatural"
position of the hands and arms contribute. And yes, CTS is VERY
painful. It effects muscles from your fingers to your elbow, and
sometimes beyond. You basically have no strength in the arm for
lifting, or holding things. Takes about a month or longer for
the pain and symptoms to disappear
gwh
--
# G. Wayne Hines Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada
#
# [EMAIL PROTECTED]
#
# Windows: A rich man's poor excuse for an operating system
#
------------------------------
From: Nigel Feltham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!!
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 20:45:13 -0400
Philip Neves wrote:
> Don't get me wrong. I love linux don't want to use anything else.
> However, at least with windows I can get my Epson Stylus Color 777 printer
> to work. Even with window 95. With linux on the otherhand I have to resort
> to using samba to network to another machine with windows on it to get the
> printer to work. And lets not get into print daemons oh god I wish I had a
> Mac!
>
In what way doesn't it work - I have just used the CUPS WWW admin tool on
my Mandrake 8 system to add an Epson Stylus colour Driver to see how hard
it is - it's installed with only a few mouse-clicks and if you select the
'Gimp print' driver it supports all the modes and resolutions supported by
the hardware. Maybe your system lists it as the Stylus colour 680 as this
is the european model number for the same printer ( you may have a european
distro). I cannot test how well the driver works though as I only have the
epson 640 - this works great under linux though and I can even use an
emulated 2880x1440 for even better quality ( the windows driver for the 640
only goes up to 1440x720).
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Teamware Linux)
Subject: Re: What does Linux need for the desktop?
Date: 3 Jun 2001 12:34:10 -0700
Hi there
It has web browser access to all the functions.
Regards
Colin Sydes
Teamware Group
http://www.teamware.com/
"Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:<9fda7b$o8l$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> "Teamware Linux" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Hi Claus
> >
> > You can take a look at Teamware Office which is a full
> > Groupware system with Mail, Calendar, Discussion Forums
> > and Document Management.
> >
> > Like Lotus Domino its not free but the pricing for Linux
> > is very atttactive. Its $350 USD for a 25 user license
> > pack and $1000 USD for a 100 user license pack.
>
> How is the UI? I hope it's not like Lotus.
------------------------------
From: Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:37:57 GMT
In article <9fda7d$o8l$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
<don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$51
>
> A good article about why people think so highly about UI.
> It's a good approach, I believe.
>
> Any comments?
Well, yes! :-)
Someone earlier suggested that I ought to join one of the Linux
development teams and help them straighten out their UIs. I've htought
about this, but I fearthat my suggestions would meet the same sort of
criticism that they meet here ... which is that Windows and Linux people
claim I want things to work just like the Mac.
However... There are two ways for an UI to be wrong.
Wrong Way I is to work other than the Macintosh Way. }: )
Wrong Way II is to be dodgy, clunky, and downright broken. As long as
the developers of applications for some system followed some sensible UI
standard -- one that uses as many of the commonalities as possible
between different UI systems, things will be okay. But if they go off
inventing their own new arbitrary crap. entropy will only increase.
So the trick is to differentiate between these two types of complaints.
--
Woofbert: Chief Rocket Surgeon, Infernosoft
email <woofbert at infernosoft dot com>
web http://www.infernosoft.com/woofbert
------------------------------
From: Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:40:19 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, drsquare
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> LASTLY, I think the M$ GUI problems is not bound to M$ allone - Linux,
> >> MAC and other GUI systems (or systems that can use GUI's) will have
> >> similar problems. I think it's time we rethink this whole thing. Yes,
> >> there are instances where I like a GUI, for example Graphic Design. But
> >> for many applications, the command line will remain KING.
> >
> >Yes, server applications.
> >And that is because server application doesn't *need* UI.
> >What about desktops? Can you really claim that there are many desktop
> >applications where the CLI is a vialable competitor?
>
> My machine isn't a server, but I use the CLI all the time. It's so
> much easier (when you know what you're doing.
Well, that's the key to all of these interfaces, isn't it?
>The average user will be
> stopped dead in their tracks if they try to use a CLI)
This last is the real reason why some people claim that the CLI will
remain KING.
--
Woofbert: Chief Rocket Surgeon, Infernosoft
email <woofbert at infernosoft dot com>
web http://www.infernosoft.com/woofbert
------------------------------
From: Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:43:23 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, drsquare
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:13:46 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Nico Coetzee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >GUI superior apps for me include Graphic Design tools (I like
> >PaintShopPro on my Windows box!), Web design (I personally hate
> >designing web pages in a text editor - I saved hundreds of hours of
> >design time when I switched to FrontPage, although many people will
> >disagree with me. I personally think that although FrontPage is not the
> >best app there is, it is in my books one of the better apps to come from
> >M$).
>
> Vi is the only program you need to design web sites.
No, vi is the only program *you* need to design web sites. The
popularity of good web design tools among profesisonal web site
designers is proof that GUI design tools are worth paying money for.
And what's this vi crap? How DARE you use a screen-oriented text editor?
If your'e gonna be a REAL he-programmer, you should be using ed. }: )
--
Woofbert: Chief Rocket Surgeon, Infernosoft
email <woofbert at infernosoft dot com>
web http://www.infernosoft.com/woofbert
------------------------------
From: "Brian Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:49:32 GMT
"Woofbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, drsquare
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:13:46 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > (Nico Coetzee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >
> > >GUI superior apps for me include Graphic Design tools (I like
> > >PaintShopPro on my Windows box!), Web design (I personally hate
> > >designing web pages in a text editor - I saved hundreds of hours of
> > >design time when I switched to FrontPage, although many people will
> > >disagree with me. I personally think that although FrontPage is not the
> > >best app there is, it is in my books one of the better apps to come
from
> > >M$).
> >
> > Vi is the only program you need to design web sites.
>
> No, vi is the only program *you* need to design web sites. The
> popularity of good web design tools among profesisonal web site
> designers is proof that GUI design tools are worth paying money for.
>
> And what's this vi crap? How DARE you use a screen-oriented text editor?
> If your'e gonna be a REAL he-programmer, you should be using ed. }: )
HA! Real men don't need programs.
>
> --
> Woofbert: Chief Rocket Surgeon, Infernosoft
> email <woofbert at infernosoft dot com>
> web http://www.infernosoft.com/woofbert
------------------------------
From: Nigel Feltham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Argh - Ballmer
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 21:04:46 -0400
GreyCloud wrote:
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
>>
>> "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
>>
>> > Ballmer's comments are FUD, meant to scare everyone, --everyone--, away
>> > from Open SOurce in general and GPL, in particular.
>>
>> Whatever, *I* will make that claim.
>> Goverment fund code should be public domain, not GPL.
>> Will you argue with this statement now?
>>
>
> Some of that code can be classified in the name of National Security.
> Then no one in the public sector can get it. Most of it is classified
> just so that no one business can gain any leverage from it and block
> another business from using it.
>
Of course there is nothing to stop the government (or any business) from
writing code based on GPL code for their own use without releasing the code
- the GPL states that anyone who can obtain programs using GPL code must
have access to the sourcecode so if the only ones who have access to the
end product are inside the government ( or company) then they are the only
ones who need access to the sourcecode to satisfy GPL licence rules.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:57:09 GMT
In article <9fct5c$ne$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> What's with the
>
> "SourceFogre uses SSH... hmm...?"
>
> Look slike you're trying to imply something about SSH. It was not a
> problem with SSH. It was no coincidence that almost everyone interpreted
> the post in that way. You dressed it up to make it look like it was an
> Apache/SSH problem (for one thing, if it wasn't, why post it?).
>
> This is a classic example of what I have accused you of.
I give you an inch and you run a mile with it. What exactly can you imply
from what I wrote? Almost anything you might want to say. It is not _my_
fault you and others inferred what you did. I was merely musing.
In any case, it is nothing like what you've accused me of. You accused me
of snipping inappropriately, and I've done none of that. That you have
misinterpreted what I've said is not my fault, but yours. You see what
you want to see.
--
Pete
------------------------------
From: "Robert Morelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What does XP stands for ???
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 01:59:47 -0600
In article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The second revision came in the early 1990's. At the influential ICA
>> Theory of Languages Conference in 1989, the question was posed, "What
>> programming language would provide the most inappropriate foundation
>> for software development in the 1990's." There was a panel discussion,
>> and a lot of ideas where tossed around, but the consensus settled on
>> BASIC. In the next couple of years, Microsoft began standardizing on
>> Visual Basic. At the Theory of Languages '92, the "Beginner's
>> All-purpose" in BASIC was changed to "Bill's Anacronistic" by
>> resolution ICA-1143-92.
> BASIC came out of Dartmouth College as a need to start students off to
> later program in Fortran. Haucks definition is correct.
Do a google search on ICA-1143-92. I think there's a preamble in it
with a bit of history. If you find it, and read it thoroughly, and you
can refute its facts, maybe I'll be willing to discuss the matter further.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SourceForge hacked!
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 20:00:56 GMT
In article <9fbec7$7dc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> > Posting what? Either article? There's so much bleating about IIS, I
> > thought one about SourceForge/Apache would be interesting for a change.
> > So, how do you leap to your conclusion, then?
I'm still waiting to hear how you jump to your amazing conclusion. I
guess you'll ignore that question.
> Er, Apache wasn't hacked, but the server it was residing on was
> compromised by a different route. Compare this to all the defacements
> that happen as a result of IIs being hacked.
Yes, and where did I say otherwise?
> Are you clever enough to spot the difference?
Are you clever enough to read what I actually said?
> Anyway, it seems to me like you're trolling because you (yet again)
> qouted something in a certain way in order to completely distort its
> meaning.
I quoted a very short piece of text and you and others make out I've said
something completely out of context.
> There you go: I didn't even have to go and look up evidence for you doing
> this because i knew you'd do it again pretty soon. Now I have posted
> *evidence* it is your turn to "shut up" as you so kindly put it.
You've posted very weak evidence, based on what you _thought_ I said.
Please stop trying to put words into my mouth!
--
Pete
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is shit
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 20:03:48 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> It really is. I'm sticking to windows. You can't even install a
> printer for christs sake.
Funny, both Mandrake 8.0 and SuSE 7.1 installed a driver for my Epson
Color 640 quite happily.
The Gimp on the other hand insisted on sending my non postscript printer
raw psotscript until I told it otherwise. This despite the Epson printer
being the so called "default".
--
Pete
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!!
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 20:05:20 GMT
In article <OYcS6.16594$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> Don't get me wrong. I love linux don't want to use anything else. However,
> at least with windows I can get my Epson Stylus Color 777 printer to work.
> Even with window 95. With linux on the otherhand I have to resort to using
> samba to network to another machine with windows on it to get the printer
> to work. And lets not get into print daemons oh god I wish I had a Mac!
What's so different about the Epson 777? My 640 works just fine.
--
Pete
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Karel Jansens)
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 17:40:48 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 03 Jun 2001 14:54:53 +0100, drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I probably could if I had a better newsreader, but downloading one
>would cut into my bandwidth which I prefer to save for porn.
>
I remember a thread, a long time ago in a newsgroup far away, where some
winvocate boasted about the superiority of Forte Agent's killfile. If you
look at the far right of your newsreader's window, you will probably find
the word "help" printed there. Position your mouse pointer (the arrowy
thingie on your screen that moves around) over it and click on your left
mouse button. Let us know what happens then and we will continue from there.
[snip]
>
>Which is one of its major faults. There should be some way that I can
>moderate this newsgroup.
There is. Use your newsreader's "unsubscribe" option - it will probably be a
nice, shiny button somewhere on your screen (most likely it will have been
"userfriendlied" by using an obscure picture instead of text to tell you
what it does, but if you let your mouse pointer (see above) hover over it
for a while, the text will eventually "pop up" - talk about GUI's making
stuff easier!). Push it and observe: You will have successfully moderated
cola. Apply at will for any other groups that will not have you.
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================================================
"Give people jam today and they'll just sit and eat it.
Jam tomorrow, now - that'll keep them going for ever".
(Terry Pratchett - "Hogfather")
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: "Stephen S. Edwards II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting
good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 13:14:05 -0700
"Patrick Ford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> drsquare wrote:
>
> > On 3 Jun 2001 13:44:04 +1200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > ("Patrick Ford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >
> > >drsquare wrote:
> >
> > >> >> What do you mean "WTF"? How can you not know what that means?
> > >> >
> > >> >He's a seppo, perhaps?
> > >>
> > >> A what?
> >
> > >What do you mean "A what"? How can you not know what that means?
> >
> > Because it's a words that I've never heard ANYONE use EVER.
>
> Oh how very unfortunate for you. Where have you spent your life? Have you
> been in a monastry?
Americans tend to live in America, Einstein.
Even if we do visit the old world, we don't
necessarily pick up on all of the cultural
nuances.
"Taking the piss", "taking the mickey", and
"pulling your tit" are not common phrases in
the U.S.
And tell me, oh culturally superior one,
can you tell me what these words mean in
America? I'll do you a favor, and list
the answers anyway.
fag
funny car
curbie
basket case
english muffin
phat
stud
JAP
nuking
whoopass
axe n' amp
tube
grunge
lemon
You might know some, or all of these terms,
but my point is, every culture has terms
and phrases that they use, and scoffing at
someone just because they aren't familiar
with your culture is just as bigoted as
someone scoffing at you because _of_ your
culture.
Us Yanks don't typically use words like
"roller", or "rogering", or "doxy", or
"flat", or "taking the piss" regularly.
So lay off, Newzy.
<TRIVIA>
"Shit man, that honkey muff be messin' my
ol' lady... he got to be running cold,
upside down his head, ya know what I'm
sayin'?"
Okay folks, what movie is this from?
I'll give you all a hint: Zucker
</TRIVIA>
> Oh all right, I will tell you. .
>
> "Taking the piss" means pulling your leg, pulling your tit,
> poking fun, taking the mickey out of you, teasing you, making a joke of
> you.
> It's very English, but is also used in Australia and New Zealand, and
> probably Canada. IOW, most of the English-speaking world.
>
> "Seppo" means American. It is strictly a Strine word, but is also known
Ah. Sort of like "Frenchie", or "Crout",
or "Crumpet", or "Scotty", or "Newzy"?
> and used to a minor extent in New Zealand. It was formulated from modified
> Cockney rhyming slang with Ocker compulsive abbreviations (abbro) imposed
> on it in what is now unique Strine rhyming slang, quite different from
> the Cockney "Halligan's goat", "plates o' meat" style.
>
> "WTF?", a Seppo abbreviation for "What the fuck?"
No. WTF is an internet abbreviation for "What The Fuck?"
You know, that thing that us dumb Yankies developed as DARPAnet.
------------------------------
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