Linux-Advocacy Digest #995, Volume #34 Tue, 5 Jun 01 22:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Compiling Knews was: Linux beats Win2K (again) (Terry Porter)
Re: UI Importance (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Redating symbolic links (Was: The beginning of the end for microsoft) (Andrew
Reilly)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Christopher L. Estep")
Re: Compiling Knews was: Linux beats Win2K (again) (Terry Porter)
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) (Terry Porter)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Christopher L. Estep")
Re: Linux is shit (Terry Porter)
Re: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!! (Terry Porter)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Christopher L. Estep")
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: What does Linux need for the desktop? (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Windows advocate of the year. ("Robert Morelli")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Christopher L. Estep")
Re: UI Importance (Dave Martel)
Re: UI Importance (Dave Martel)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Christopher L. Estep")
Re: Chicken and egg problem (Michael Vester)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Compiling Knews was: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 06 Jun 2001 00:55:01 GMT
On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:46:58 GMT, flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 05 Jun 2001 02:19:19 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
> wrote:
>
>
>>Easily resolved.
>>
>>> or because the rpm won't work
>>
>>Most RPM's work, just like *most* InstallShield's for Windows work.
>
> Until it screams of Library problems
Yes Windows DLL's willdothat sometimes.
> whith some programmer geekspeak
> which for some reason doesn't even give you a clue as to what is
> actually wrong.
I font think Windows is able to fix things like that ?
> Usually something about lib.s0 or something like that
^^^^^ bwcc.dll
> with an s0 extension.
>
>
>
>>> he tries compiling from source
>>
>>Thats easily done,
>>1/ run 'configure'
>>2/ 'make'
>>3/ 'make install'
>
>
> Assuming the old etra "/" at the end of line 4666 in the config file
> doesn't screw him.
Its easy to make a mistake configuring anything. Did my mistake stop
me installing Knews ?
>
>>Three commands in a CLI, its easy as.
>
> vs one click
Hahahahah.
Always one for the understatement is our old Wintroll:-
"Steve,Mike,Heather,Simon,teknite,keymaster,keys88,Sewer Rat,
S,Sponge,Sarek,piddy,McSwain,pickle_pete,Ishmeal_hafizi,Amy,
Simon777,Claire,Flatfish+++,Flatfish"
"On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:39:14 GMT, flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 02:28:07 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Charlie> Ebert) wrote:
Charlie:You've been telling people for months now that Linux is
Charlie:a peice of shit and won't even install on your machine.
Flatty: You have me mixed up with someone else.
Flatty: I haven't had a problem
Flatty: installing Linux on a machine since RedHat 5.0.
Flatty: Installing Linux in most cases is a breeze.
>>> and so forth.
>
>
>>
>>Of course, so get Linux pre-installed, and if you can't, write the
>>Justice Department.
>
> I asked the boys over at CompUSA and they don't have any Linux
> pre-installs.
Wonder why, can you spell "preditory and unlawfull trade practices"
??
>
> The ones I have found on the internet are way over priced expecially
> considering the OS is supposed to be free.
>
I'll admit that Free Agent hasn't a kill file worth a dam, but hey
its free :)
>>
>>--
>>Kind Regards
>>Terry
>
> flatfish+++
> "Why do they call it a flatfish?"
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:02:02 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ayende Rahien
<don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:00:13 +0200
<9fieej$snh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>"Woofbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
[snip for brevity]
>> How do you teach the nitty gritty of software engineering
>> to a kid born with USB mouse in his hand?
>
>No me, I tend to give assignments like:
>
>#include <stdio.h>
>int main(){
> unsigned int intArr[10],i;
> for (i=0;i<10;i++) {
> i[intArr] = !!i;
> printf("%u ",i[intArr]);
> }
> return 0;
>}
>
>
>What is the the output of this program?
0 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 $
(No, I did not cheat. :-) )
>
>
>You *see* why I'm not a good teacher? (Although, after one of *my* classes,
>they will be able to read *anyone's* code.)
>
Hopefully that includes yours :-), although from the code I've seen
during my years in the biz, that's not nearly as bad as some. :-)
See also the "Obfuscated C contest".
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random very bad code here
EAC code #191 36d:21h:19m actually running Linux.
This is a .sig.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.arch,misc.invest.stocks
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Reilly)
Subject: Re: Redating symbolic links (Was: The beginning of the end for microsoft)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:08:51 GMT
On 5 Jun 2001 15:17:14 GMT, hack wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Andrew Reilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>[snip]
>>I've been moving my home directory from machine to machine as I
>>changed Universities, departments, and (more recently) machines
>>at home since 1989. I know that, because I have files and
>>e-mail messages in my home directory that have timestamps from
>>then.
>>
>>It really is as simple as tar'ing $HOME to an appropriate
>>removable medium, and untarring it over $HOME on the new box,
>>after you've created the appropriate user and group IDs.
>
> How did you restore the time stamps of symbolic links? This is something
> I've been trying to find out for a long time...
Dunno. I can't say that it's worried me much. For a time I
used a Unix with an optimisation that meant that symbolic links
didn't even have a time stamp of their own. I think that they
borrowed the time of the parent directory, or perhaps of the
target. Certainly "man touch" on my present system doesn't say
anything special about symbolic links.
--
Andrew
------------------------------
From: "Christopher L. Estep" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:09:01 GMT
"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9f1nhb$v90$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > (I must've missed this one, Stuart, I'm going to reply through you, if
> > you don't mind)
> >
> > Heh, it's amusing when you call someone a rabid zealot, and in your
> > calling, you make an ass of yourself doing it.
> >
> > more like: Windows is really good, it's proven, there are tons of
numbers
> > for it, you guys just haven't used it and don't understand it.
> > Linux isn't great. It's pretty sad, really. It doesn't "sux", it's
> > getting better, but it's certainly not grown up like you morons would
> > have us believe.
>
> Compared to Commercial UNIX's, then I would accept there is definately a
> long way to go, however, in comparison to Windows as a small business
> server OS, Linux wins hands down. On the client side, it is rapidly
taking
> shape, at a consistant pace ensuring ala "love bug" doesn't occur on linux
> because of sloppy programming and poor design and implementation.
> Personally, I prefer my O2 w/ IRIX, clean consistant interface, great
video
> facilities, responsive and very stable.
>
>
> > > > Matthew Gardiners balanced reporting: Although Linux had made big
> inroads
> > > > into the desktop market, hardware comptibility is one of the number
> one
> > > > issues on the development radar <------ TRUE balanced reporting.
> > > >
> > > Big inroads into the desktop market? Where's the stats on that? If
> you
> > > said server market, you might have a case.
> >
> > Big inroads = 0.0001% and declining.
>
> Actually, 2% of the desktop market and growing.
To what...maybe five percent?
Virii are written as *weapons*...to *force* a decision, one way or another.
Virii aimed at Windows PCs (or designed specifically to *damage* Windows
PCs) are done with the knowledge that there are *lots* of Windows PCs to
target! The designers of most Windows-targeted virii are akin to
*terrorists* that target innocent civilians, and, in my opinion, should be
treated judicially as such.
Christopher L. Estep
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Compiling Knews was: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 06 Jun 2001 01:05:06 GMT
On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 07:45:34 +1200,
Stuart Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "flatfish+++" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:43:13 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> 1. The instructions that are supposed to tell me how to do this are in
>> a format I can't read using Windows. There are 6 different versions of
>> this file. Install, install1, installmefirst, installdos etc.
>>
>> While I can sort of view and decipher this in notepad the text is not
>> formatted and strung out all over the place and some letters do not
>> translate properly so it is a mess.
>
> Wordpad is your friend for reading Unix formatted text. It's to do with the
> way line breaks are handled on *nix and WIndows. *nix uses a CR (I
> believe), while Windows using a CR LF.
>
>
Gees even Stuart Fox is being helpfull on COLA!
So my vote for Winadvocate of the month must be,
in the following order :-
1/ Ayende
2/ Eric Funk
3/ Stuart Fox
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 06 Jun 2001 01:13:22 GMT
On 5 Jun 2001 18:31:52 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 05 Jun 2001 02:04:00 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
>> ([EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)) wrote:
>
>>>On Mon, 04 Jun 2001 09:57:32 +0100, drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>>>>> I use it for free, so you must be wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>>Bzzzzzzzzt, now you've sent my untruth-o-meter of it's scale!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>Norti!
>>>>
>>>> What the HELL are you talking about?
>>>
>>>Its called *humour* (sometimes) so lighten up please.
>>>
>>>Dr Square, I meant that as Agent is NOT free, someone had to pay for it,
>>>are you saying that is was a gift ?
>
>> No, I cracked it.
BS, you used a crack that someone else made.
>
> Interesting. Adam at Forte thinks so to. Heres to headers.
Its just incredible how MS allowed people to pirate their software
while it suited them. I think cracking software and boasting about it
will soon be a thing of the past.
That's the really **GOOD** think about Linux, FreeBSD etc, you get the
software for FREE, you get to keep your $200, and you *DON'T* go to
jail.
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "Christopher L. Estep" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:18:37 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> This explains Craig's confusion, then, and illustrates the failure in
> MS's design which makes this more than a lack of familiarity with
> Windows. You keep saying "update driver", but he was trying to change,
> not update the driver. Yes, you can change the driver through this
> method. But that is hardly intuitive "to change the driver pretend to
> update but then choose a completely different driver after it cranks and
> churns and says 'no update available'."
>
> Silly monopoly crapware.
Not so silly.
You can *still* choose another driver if it barfs (and this is still true
with Windows XP today).
The straight fact is, with the sheer numbers of
*included-with-the-operating-system* drivers for most hardware (which has
long been true of the Win32 operating systems since Windows 98 and Windows
NT 4.0, and is even starting to be true of later versions of Linux), in most
cases, you won't need to hunt for a device driver for a new piece of
hardware again.
In the case of ME, 2000, and now XP, if you just happen to install a new
piece of hardware that doesn't have a driver included with the OS (or with
the hardware itself), Windows even goes out onto the Internet to flag down
the proper driver.
And often does it without user intervention (in the case of ME, 2000, and
XP).
And this is something that Eazel was supposed to bring to Linux.
What happened?
Christopher L. Estep
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Linux is shit
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 06 Jun 2001 01:17:23 GMT
On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:19:34 +0100, Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> >> Cool printer. What resolution does it do?
>>> >
>>> > Only 600*600 ;-)
>>>
>>> Only! LOL! 600x600 laser printouts are always better than 600x600
>>> inkjet printouts coz the ink doesn't spread. And I'm still using an
>>> HP500
>>> (300x300).
>>>
>>
>> Try a newer HP inkjet, like a 900 series. I read in todays news that HP
>> had to settle with Pitney-Bowes for $400M for patent infringement on the
>> way they get inkjets to print like laser printers.
>
> That would involve me spending money.
>
> When I'm at home, I can usually use my bro's HP 930.
>
> At college, I can usually use my deptartments HP4050.
>
>
> But I keep the HP500 around for when I'm too lazy to move. At least the
> ink is quite cheap :-)
Eeks I didnt realise you have to use an old HP thermal inkjet!
Btw, I used to refill those ink carts with "Quink ink", afterall
the head is replaced when the ink runs out. It took longer to dry
but looked as good, and one $3 bottle did 3 refills (the heads last
about 7 refils, before they blow a heating element)
My laser weighs about 7 times a HP500!
>
> -Ed
>
>
>
>
> --
> (You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
>
> /d{def}def/f{/Times-Roman findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5 -1
> r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}for/s 15
> d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!!
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 06 Jun 2001 01:23:13 GMT
On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:57:04 GMT, flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And if Linux didn't support your printer, which is quite common?
Only for you :-
"Steve,Mike,Heather,Simon,teknite,keymaster,keys88,Sewer Rat,
S,Sponge,Sarek,piddy,McSwain,pickle_pete,Ishmeal_hafizi,Amy,
Simon777,Claire,Flatfish+++,Flatfish"
"On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:39:14 GMT, flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 02:28:07 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie
Ebert) wrote:"
Charlie: You've been telling people for months now that Linux is
Charlie: a peice of shit and won't even install on your machine.
Flatty: You have me mixed up with someone else.
Flatty: I haven't had a problem installing Linux
Flatty: on a machine since RedHat 5.0.
Flatty: Installing Linux in most cases is a breeze.
For the rest of us, Linux supports our printers quite well.
In fact the latest Ghostscript (postscript to printer driver)
is free for non commercial use, but the old version is free for
all, including the disto manufacturers like RedHat, and its
the OLD version you'll get on their CD's.
Grow a brain, or a conscience and install the latest
Ghostscript Flatty, and try and obtain just a little
credibility here on COLA ?
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "Christopher L. Estep" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:28:21 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Chad Myers in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed, 23 May 2001 13:48:10
> >"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> [...]
> >Well, WindowsNT has always had a good shell (better than Bash in
> >most cases).
>
> Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! You're the only moron foolish enough to claim
> this, Chad.
>
> >The simple fact is, 99% of the users don't use half the
> >things you mentioned, and Win2K has two forms of low-latency remote
> >access as well.
>
> Wow! TWO?
>
> >Who uses wget besides a bunch of Unix geeks (less than one percent
> >of one percent I'm sure).
>
> Maybe about there, yea. But still a larger percentage than Windows
> idiots who know how to use command line FTP. ;-)
Care to bet on that? Command-line FTP started with Windows *NT* 3.1 (the
*original* NT) nad has been in *every* version of Windows since (even
Windows for Workgroups included CLI FTP in their TCP/IP stack, originally
code-named *Wolverine*, and later cross-ported to the non-workgroups Windows
3.1). Windows 9x has *always* had CLI FTP (I remember using it to download
the original 32-bit Netscape Navigator 1.0 in early 1995).
How many UNIX geeks know about SAMBA (a slick little utility that enables
UNIX/Linux clients to co-exist in Windows-based networks)? Here's the most
telling argument about SAMBA: it's not only included with any decent distro
of UNIX/Linux, SAMBA even works against Windows *2000*-based networks.
Microsoft could choose to wreck SAMBA, but hasn't (and won't, either).
Christopher L. Estep
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:33:23 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ayende Rahien
<don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:09:20 +0200
<9fi8io$md7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
>message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>> One can try to compute an estimated MTTF (MTBF?) for Windows by observing
>> a number of nodes. For example, if one has a 100-server webfarm,
>> identically configured and perfectly load-balanced, and one has
>> a node failure every 18 days on average [*], then one can compute that
>> the MTBF of Windows is 1800 days.
>
>But this isn't how it works.
>The chance to node's failure isn't a constant, it increase with time.
>
>Beside, by your method, if I take 10,000 identical configured nodes, and one
>of them crash every day, I have a 27 years MTBF.
Exactly; that's what's so neat about Windows. The number of nodes
is so great the MTBF can be arbitrarily large.... :-) :-) :-)
Did you want the Brooklyn, London, or Golden Gate? :-)
(But I have to agree; this definitely qualifies as an unsuccessful "try".)
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random bridge here
EAC code #191 36d:22h:26m actually running Linux.
Be paranoid. Everyone else is.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: What does Linux need for the desktop?
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:36:10 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, drsquare
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:03:59 +0100
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 02:01:10 +0100, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "drsquare"
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>>>Look fool, quit complaining. You chose to use Debian which is a distro
>>>>for the hard core only. If you want a easier one, use RedHat. It even
>>>>has a control panel and a good tool for setting up printers and X.
>>>
>>> That would mean downloading another 100MB+ of files, which I am just not
>>> prepared to do.
>>
>>Go by a CD then. Good software is well worth paying for.
>
>Where from?
Well, you can either go directly to RedHat or to a place such
as Cheapbytes (www.cheapbytes.com). They look like they're
still around.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 36d:23h:59m actually running Linux.
[select one]
>>> Make Signatures Fast! <<<
------------------------------
From: "Robert Morelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows advocate of the year.
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 07:42:42 -0600
> "The obvious mathematical breakthrough [for breaking encryption schemes]
> would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers."
> -- Bill Gates
Is this quote for real? Where did you find it?
------------------------------
From: "Christopher L. Estep" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:44:24 GMT
"Karel Jansens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Wed, 30 May 2001 02:21:30 GMT, Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >
> >"Donn Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Chad Myers wrote:
> >>
> >> > VBScripts end up being executables which only run with as much
> >> > or less privilege than the user.
> >> >
> >> > How is this different from perl scripts on Unix?
> >>
> >> Because Perl scripts can't touch "normal" users' files. It's obvious:
> >> Windows 98 is a wide-open system, and most unices are not. The only
way
> >> to delete users' files on a unix system is if someone compromised the
> >> system, and put a rogue Perl script where it shouldn't be.
> >
> >We, well I wasn't at least, talking about Win9x. Win9x is a toy OS and
> >sucks. NT/2K are different.
> >
>
> What's the market share of NT/2K?
> How many viri are writtten specifically for 2K?
>
> Besides, you claimed that Windows is ubiquitous because it is the better
> O/S. If NT/2K is better than 9x, why is not everybody using that than?
Simple: OS price. If NT or 2000 were available for the price of 9x, 9x
would die.
People don't run 9x because they *want* to.
They run it because it runs all their apps for a decent price.
If a user's needs include security (and they can afford it) they go with
NT/2000 (witness the increase in *non-networked* Windows 2000 users and home
Windows 2000 Professional users).
Windows XP will be available in both Home and Professional Editions, based
on the superior codebase of Windows 2000 Professional, *not* the junk of
9x/ME.
And, quite bluntly, I have been shouting that Microsoft should simply *kill*
the Home Edition of XP and drop Professional's price to that of 9x.
I have, in fact, been recommending Windows 2000 Professional for home use
since it shipped.
And the saame recommendation goes for Windows XP Profgessional when *it*
ships.
Christopher L. Estep
------------------------------
From: Dave Martel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:45:01 -0600
On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:57:18 +0200, "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>"Dave Martel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
>> You seem to think that the CLI is more than the average user can deal
>> with. Don't forget that MS got their start selling a CLI operating
>> system (DOS) to people who had never used a computer before. These
>> newbies learned to format and partition HD's, install and configure
>> drivers, juggle TSR's and applications in limited RAM, write batch
>> files, and deal with umpteen different text-based programs each with
>> its own UI and quirks (and printer drivers).
>
>People will learn only just as much as they absolutely have to. In DOS'
>days, they had to learn all of that in order to use a computer.
>Today, they don't.
They still have to learn to use the CLI if they want to have the most
control and get the most efficient use out of their systems.
>A programmer must assume that his users will *always* take the path of least
>resistance.
No, a programmer must assume that users vary in their needs. There's a
difference between designing an OS so that even an idiot can use it,
and designing an OS that only an idiot would *want* to use.
------------------------------
From: Dave Martel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Importance
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:45:54 -0600
On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:46:37 GMT, Woofbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, drsquare
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:44:43 -0600, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
>> (Dave Martel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>>
>> >On 4 Jun 2001 22:10:02 -0500, "Jan Johanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>To you perhaps but not to most people. In fact, using a mouse is
>> >>proven to be much faster and much more accurate than typing.
>> >
>> >Depends. For example:
>> >
>> > mkdir \progra~1\irfanview
>> > cd \progra~1\irfanview
>> > pkunzip \download\iview336.zip
>> > dir
>> > iview
>>
>> And if you were using tab complete you could quarter that time.
>
>And if you were using a GUI, you'd merely doubleclick on the installer
>icon. }:-b
No, you'd click Start, Programs, Windows Explorer, wait for Explorer
to get started, navigate to the download directory, double-click the
zip file, tell Winzip where to unpack it, check the box to create the
folder if it doesn't exist, and finally when it was done you could
click the executable.
I'd already be firing up the executable while you were still trying to
get Windows Explorer started. :)
------------------------------
From: "Christopher L. Estep" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:49:16 GMT
"Dave Martel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Wed, 30 May 2001 11:42:17 -0500, "Chad Myers"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Windows XP will change all that, though. MS is going to quickly
> >fade out Win9x because of all its shortcomings and failings,
> >not to mention it's a support nightmare.
>
> It's deja vu all over again!
How?
XP includes a slick little applet called *Remote Assistance* that lets the
user allow anyone (from Microsoft to the smart techie next door neighbor) to
help troubleshoot their PC.
I do tech support for a living (level 1 CAE/TSR for Comcast Online) and RA
alone is going to make my job tons easier.
Christopher L. Estep
------------------------------
From: Michael Vester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Chicken and egg problem
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:19:47 -0700
"Christopher L. Estep" wrote:
>
> "spam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:28:08 -0500, "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > No doubt IBM is to blame for alot of problems with OS/2 but the OS/2
> > SDK was unbelievably expensive when it was a MS product. IBM did drop
> > the SDK price long before Win95 was released.
>
> Yes...to a price still more expensive than the Win32 SDK, which Microsoft
> *gave away* to Windows 95 testers. IBM was *specifically* told about this
> (by, among others, Dave Barnes), but Marketing not only didn't listen, but
> dismissed Barnes' prescient and accurate warning that IBM had to seriously
> get behind non-verticial application development.
>
> The biggest market for OS/2 SDKs (in fact, for a long time, the *only*
> market) was, by IBM's admitted design, the vertical application market
> (proprietary applications designed for internal use by a business). That is
> still the biggest single place where you find OS/2 today (automatic teller
> machines and other bank apps).
>
> Christopher L. Estep
And probably the single most important application in my life. I am
extremely grateful that OS/2 dispenses our money. Imagine having a BSOD
just as you deposit a multi-thousand dollar cheque? Or it locks up and
keeps your card.
In my 20+ years of operating automatic tellers as a user, I had only one
small problem. When I asked for $100, it gave me $80. The bank promptly
corrected the error.
I don't think automatic tellers would be accepted in the marketplace if
they ran losedos. How could they?
--
Michael Vester
A credible Linux advocate
"The avalanche has started, it is
too late for the pebbles to vote"
Kosh, Vorlon Ambassador to Babylon 5
------------------------------
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