Linux-Advocacy Digest #85, Volume #35 Sat, 9 Jun 01 17:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (drsquare)
Re: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!! (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Very interesting cracker article, and XP warning. (Mathias Grimmberger)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("JS \\ PL")
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("JS | PL")
Re: A Browser is a Browser ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: The nature of competition ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Very interesting cracker article, and XP warning. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("JS | PL")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:02:24 +0100
On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:34:29 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
(T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>Said drsquare in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:07:49
>>>>Nationalism and religeous hate have caused more problems on this
>>>>planet than anything else.
>>>
>>>Why confabulate the two? Is it because your point that patriotism is
>>>bad is so utterly weak that unless you throw religion into the same mold
>>>you don't have a point, maybe?
>>
>>Or maybe because they're both equally guilty of causing problems.
>
>We were discussing one of them. To bring up the other, particularly if
>what you say is true, is nothing but confabulation intended to beg the
>question to begin with. If you have to add religion to show that
>patriotism is bad, then patriotism isn't bad.
That doesn't make any sense at all.
>>>You'd prefer everyone in the world thought the same way? That's called
>>>bigotry, to think your way is the only right way. When taken to
>>>national levels, it generally becomes fascist. Now do you understand
>>>why Stephen called you a communist?
>>
>>No, he just doesn't like the idea of communism. Are you saying that
>>anyone who supports getting away from something is a bigot?
>
>I think anyone who claims that they know how other's "should" act is
>something of a fascist at heart. Simple bigotry I have no problem with,
>which is why I support the ideal of patriotism.
In that case everyone is a fascist, thus nulling the term.
>>>We happen to have one of the best records ever made, dickweed. Sure,
>>
>>Well, if one of the best records ever includes slavery, religious
>>opression, racial discrimination and nuclear bombing hundreds of
>>thousands of innocent women and children, then the rest of the world
>>must be pretty bad.
>
>Unfortunately, it does, and unfortunately, it is.
It might be the best compared to all the scabby asian and african
countries etc, but compared to Western developed countries, it isn't.
>>>but then so were the ancient Greeks. The USA pretty much provided the
>>>template for the modern sensibility of fundamental human rights, though,
>>>and Americans are and rightly should be very proud of the fact.
>>
>>Humans rights? Yeah, as long as your white, rich, straight and
>>Christian. Otherwise, the US of A just doesn't give a fuck about you.
>
>Oh, bullshit. Pessimistic over-exuberance is not a rational argument.
Not bullshit at all.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: LINUX PRINTING SUCKS!!!!!!!!
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 20:03:56 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on 8 Jun 2001 16:21:34 GMT
<9fqu2e$9si$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 8 Jun 2001 03:12:42 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
>> ([EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)) wrote:
>
>>>drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:08:42 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
>>>> (Nigel Feltham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>>>
>>>>>drsquare wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>I like beer but for some strange reason I get a bad headache
>>>>>>>and feel sick after just 1 pint so I only drink spirits - I
>>>>>>>can drink at least 10 vodka&cokes in one evening with no problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're probably just gay or something.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think it's more to do with the quality of lager in pubs around
>>>>>here - I
>>>
>>>> Lager? I thought you were talking about BEER, not that watery piss!
>>>
>>>What do you prefer?
>
>> BITTER.
>
>What *kind* of bitter, you simpleton.
One would hope the better bitter, made with butter batter....
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- but I thought "hops" had something to do with networking
EAC code #191 40d:08h:54m actually running Linux.
Life's getting too complicated, even listening to the radio.
------------------------------
From: Mathias Grimmberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Very interesting cracker article, and XP warning.
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 19:56:01 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:27:37 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > ([EMAIL PROTECTED] (Form@C)) wrote:
> > >Eh? for *existing* address space? Nope.... I think you must have misread
> my
> > >post or replied to the wrong one! :-) We arn't on IPv6 yet (well, most of
> > >us anyway!).
> >
> > Why not? When is ip6 'coming out'?
>
> When MS makes it the default configuration in its OSes.
The majority of routers are not owned by MS and do not run MS OSes. And
*these* devices need to do IPv6 for it to take off - clients are
irrelevant until then.
MGri
--
Mathias Grimmberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Eat flaming death, evil Micro$oft mongrels!
------------------------------
From: "JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 16:22:09 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> WinDOS is evidence enough that neither Microsoft nor sock puppets could
> possibly recognize a 'superior codebase'. W2K didn't prove otherwise,
> much to Microsoft's chagrin (their sales figures for 2K have been
> *extremely* embarrassing); only a fool would consider XP to be any
> different.
Windows 2000 Server shipped 1 million in it's first year. Do the math,
that's about 2700 a DAY switching or upgrading to the Windows 2000 server
family. One million times $1188.00 is over a billion dollars. I wouldn't
call that extremely embarrassing. I have no information on how many Pro
licences have been sold, no doubt considerably more than have been sold for
the server OS. Add em all up and your "extrmely embarasing" claim really
turns out to be "extremely successfull".
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 22:27:43 +0100
>> Erm, I haven't and I don't know anyone who's ever used such a term. And
>> wouldn't that mean Windows advocates would be known as
>> "shitOSinistas"?
>
> No, because people who use Windows are generally grounded and have
> nothing to prove or attack. Whereas Penguinistas seem to be attacking
Well, you seem to buck the trend with winvocates, then.
> something or feel like they have something to prove. Windows advocates
> are just interested in realism and getting the job done, not being
> "l33t" or out to prove exactly how much they hate "M$" so their
> friends will like them more.
Showing how much you hate SSH1 won't make us like you more.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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r 230 350 moveto 0 1 179{2 1 r dup show 2 1 r 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}for/s 15
d f pop 240 420 moveto 0 1 3 {4 2 1 r sub -1 r show}for showpage
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 20:47:25 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, drsquare
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Fri, 08 Jun 2001 23:07:09 +0100
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:03:36 -0500, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
>>"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>>> >> Since when does it have to be open source?
>>> >
>>> >Because Penguinistas live in a world where everything should be free
>>> >and everyone's happy and roses grow everywhere =)
>>>
>>> What the fuck is a "Penguinista"?
>>
>>Militant, rabid Linux defender/supporter. It's not a derogatory
>>term, but it has become one somewhat.
>
>Who the fuck came up with a term like that?
Look up some Argentinian history, and you may be enlightened. :-)
Specifically, Juan and Evita Peron. Juan's rise to power
was a long and complicated one, and his supporters were,
for some reason, known as Peronistas.
Or maybe it was his government "hatchet men", who liked to
"disappear" people [*]. In any event, a fair number of
two-syllable words are amenable to this treatment: penguins
among them. Since the Linux logo is a happy sitting penguin,
well ... :-)
Not that it's a horribly logical usage, mind you.
Of course, what's sauce for the goose might be sauce for the gander;
one might coin the term "Micronista". The only problem with that
term is that certain elements in Micronesia might object. :-)
Unfortunately, "Gates" is not bisyllabic. "BillGateista" sounds funny.
"Ballmerista" might be a possibility, but less understandable.
[*] No, "disappear" is not normally a transitive verb. :-)
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 40d:09h:30m actually running Linux.
[ ] Check here to always trust monopolistic software.
------------------------------
From: "JS | PL" <winxp beta@ home .com>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 04:48:54 -0400
Reply-To: "JS | PL" <winxp beta@ home .com>
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said JS \ PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:02:47
> >"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:3o4U6.30692$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> "JS \ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >
> >> > > Hard drive space for bloatware: $150
> >> > > RAM for crapware: $200
> >> > > CPU for the next version: $290
> >> > >
> >> > > Monopoly crapware: Priceless.
> >> >
> >> > Oh... looks like it's time to head on over to pricewatch dot com.
> >> >
> >> > Hard drive space for bloatware:
> >> > Well there an 80gb HD for 208.00 what's that work out to..... $2.60
to
> >> store
> >> > Windows XP.
> >>
> >> Don't forget the new motherboard with appropriate bios to handle
> >> this. And about half a day of an experienced technical support
> >> person's time to get it installed.
> >>
> >> > RAM 128mb for $21.00 (my god it's getting cheap) But most people
already
> >> > have at least 64mb if they are currently running Win98. So I'll just
> >order
> >> > 64mb from Connect Computers for a whole - $9.00
> >>
> >> This assumes you have empty DIMM slots, which isn't likely but
> >> you can fix it with the new motherboard above.
> >>
> >> > I'm up to $11.60
> >>
> >> Plus time to order and install.
> >>
> >> > Now I need a MONSTER, state of the art, 233mhz processor (actually
I'm
> >> > currently running XP beta on a 233 w/ 60mb EDO RAM and it runs fine)
> >>
> >> Ah, so you were intentionally being dishonest about the RAM cost.
> >
> >Yes I'm being dishonest, RAM cost is actually zero because it runs fine
on
> >my present 60MB.
> >
> >> Try again with the real cost to add some EDO RAM to that machine
> >> and tell us how long it takes you to get it working with that 80
> >> gig drive you mentioned.
> >
> >No more time than it took to get working with the 8 gb HD it's currently
on.
> >
> >>
> >> > Looks like a place called Kahlon will sell me a 233 for $27.00 (that
> >> hurts)
> >>
> >> > I'm almost out $40.00 upgrading my system to accomodate Windows XP!
> >>
> >> How much would you charge to upgrade an office full of PC's and
> >> guarantee that they work when you get done? How long will it
> >> take?
> >
> >It all depends on how big the job is but I guess if I could get away with
it
> >I would charge about $500 for each unit above what Dell charges me for
the
> >hardware/OS package because any office which needs to upgrade hardware to
> >install Windows XP is LONG overdue for complete equipment upgrade. It
would
> >take me about 15 minutes per unit (if that). I guess since I'm getting
> >$500.00 profit I should make it look kind of hard and drawn out so I'll
> >stretch it out some and try to look perplexed and annoyed at least once
or
> >twice. Maybe shake my head at the monitor few times when I think someone
is
> >looking....
>
> You don't seem to understand, JSPL. All you did was change the numbers
> that someone *else* gave. They, like you, were claiming that an upgrade
> is trivially inexpensive. All you did was come up with drastically
> lower (and one would think, then, less reliable) numbers. And the point
> remains the same. Monopoly crapware costs you money in ways that aren't
> part of the list price.
I don't know anything about "Monopoly crapware" especially if your talking
about software because no one company can possibly posses a monopoly on
operating systems. But I do know that Windows XP saves the consumer money in
ways which are far above and beyond the price of the list price. Actually if
you add in savings realized in NOT seperately purchasing it's newest bundled
software, CD burner software, video editing, etc... the OS could be
considered *FREE* for some.
;-)
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A Browser is a Browser
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:48:53 +0200
"David Dorward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9ftspo$kal$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> It seems that on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 13:47:39 +0100, someone claiming to be
> "Ian Pulsford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> typed this:
>
> > How can we stop this crap in its tracks?
>
> <?PSUDOCODE
>
> If Internet Explorer 6
>
> {
>
> redirect to page explaining why it is banned from
> the website.
Oh, *sure*, deny your site from 86% of the population.
Yeah, right!
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The nature of competition
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:54:41 +0200
"Rob S. Wolfram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >That's what they say about KDE too... personally, KDE *is* stable...
> >although it could have more features... and no, I'm not talking about
> >animated cartoons or paperclips.
> >
> >For example, I'd like to be able to handle all screen related settings
such
> >as resolution, color bit depth, etc. from one place, such as right
> >click->properties->screen as in W2k.
>
> How would you suppose that KDE, running on a headless server in the
> campus server room, change the display depth and resolution of one of
> the 23 X-terminals in the computer-lab?
>
> HTH. HAND.
> Rob
No idea, but TS can handle it.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:59:35 +0200
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:15:29 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >> >I'm chocking here.
> >> >*Mere* 1 GB? There is not such thing as *mere* GB, for crying out
loud.
> >> >
> >> >Do you remember about 5 years ago?
> >> >When 2GB HD were the hottest item? And all of Windows was 35MB on
disk,
> >> >100MB installed?
> >>
> >> Yeah, but JP \ PL thinks you can buy a 1GB hard disk for $2.60
> >
> >You can, what is your point?
> >I know people that *gives* 1GB away.
>
> Who?
People who throw out their old computers.
I get a box with old HDs that I got from friends and other people I know.
> Where can I go to get a 1GB drive?
A garage sale, I suppose. I don't think you'll find it anywhere else.
> And would that enable me to
> install Windows XP and all the programs that come with it?
No, you would need a CPU, MoBo, memory, display adapter, monitor, etc.
Hell, I got a computer that XP can run on for 250$, and that included a
printer & a (14") monitor.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Very interesting cracker article, and XP warning.
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 00:01:37 +0200
"Mathias Grimmberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > "drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:27:37 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > > ([EMAIL PROTECTED] (Form@C)) wrote:
> > > >Eh? for *existing* address space? Nope.... I think you must have
misread
> > my
> > > >post or replied to the wrong one! :-) We arn't on IPv6 yet (well,
most of
> > > >us anyway!).
> > >
> > > Why not? When is ip6 'coming out'?
> >
> > When MS makes it the default configuration in its OSes.
>
> The majority of routers are not owned by MS and do not run MS OSes. And
> *these* devices need to do IPv6 for it to take off - clients are
> irrelevant until then.
Okay, so you got routers capable of IPv6, it won't be wide-spread use until
MS support it.
Beside, MS putting IPv6 in the OS will give the IPv6 supporters a lot more
power when pushing the routers manufacterers.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:06:38 GMT
"JS \ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:25:42 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > ("Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >
> > >"JS \ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >>
> > >> I wasn't including programs, I was listing the "per mb" cost of the
> > >Windows
> > >> footprint on an 80 gb hard drive, which works out to a mere $2.60.
Most
> > >> people don't have to get a larger hard drive to install XP though
since
> > >it's
> > >> footprint is merely 1 gb.
> > >
> > >I'm chocking here.
> > >*Mere* 1 GB? There is not such thing as *mere* GB, for crying out loud.
> > >
> > >Do you remember about 5 years ago?
> > >When 2GB HD were the hottest item? And all of Windows was 35MB on disk,
> > >100MB installed?
> >
> > Yeah, but JP \ PL thinks you can buy a 1GB hard disk for $2.60
>
> Actually I didn't say that. Your just not bright enough to read very well.
You mean you were being deliberately deceptive.
> What I said was (for the third time), the storage portion XP requires on
an
> 80gb drive which currently sells for $208 at pricewatch.com is about
$2.60.
> Get it yet Einstein? The cost to store Windows XP is $2.60.
If the cost is $2.60, why do you have to pay $208?
Now tell us again how much it really will cost you to get that
60M EDO RAM raised up to the 64M you need just to run
the OS, and just for fun, tell us what it would cost to give
that machine the 128M minimum you would need to run some
apps. And please use real costs this time and be realistic about
the fact that you will have to toss your old SIMMs and replace
the whole set.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "JS | PL" <winxp beta@ home .com>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 05:03:50 -0400
Reply-To: "JS | PL" <winxp beta@ home .com>
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 12:39:56 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >> >Do you remember about 5 years ago?
> >> >When 2GB HD were the hottest item? And all of Windows was 35MB on
disk,
> >> >100MB installed?
> >>
> >> Yeah, but JP \ PL thinks you can buy a 1GB hard disk for $2.60
> >
> >Actually I didn't say that. Your just not bright enough to read very
well.
> >What I said was (for the third time), the storage portion XP requires on
an
> >80gb drive which currently sells for $208 at pricewatch.com is about
$2.60.
> >Get it yet Einstein? The cost to store Windows XP is $2.60.
>
> Erm, no it isn't. You can't just get the 80GB drive for $208 and cut
> off a 1GB portion. You either buy the whole thing or get a smaller
> drive. You can't just pay the $2.60
You can use the $2.60 figure when you calculate the storage cost of the
data.
Actually, if you need to buy a drive to accomodate WindowsXP, you needed a
bigger drive anyway. Hard drives produced in the last few years can easilly
handle the tiny footprint that XP requires, it's a total "non issue" that is
causing you way too much concern.
------------------------------
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