On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 00:16 +0300, Oron Peled wrote:
> On Monday, 25 בAugust 2008, Omer Zak wrote:
> > On Mon, 2008-08-25 at 19:56 +0300, Oron Peled wrote:
> > > On Monday, 25 בAugust 2008, Amos Shapira wrote:
> > > > Since there are always swings around about "best linux support" which
> > > > I didn't follow, what's the order of the day? Should go with nVidia,
> > > > AMD or maybe Intel? Any specific card families/models?
> > [... snipped ...]
> > > * My second choice today would be ATI cards:
> > > 1. As someone else mentioned older (e.g: r300) chipsets have
> > > pretty good support in the FOSS driver (including
> > > simple 3D, compiz etc.)
> > > 2. AMD/ATI released hardware specs last year and started
> > > cooperating with FOSS community, which is significant for
> > > the newer cards (http://www.x.org/docs/AMD)
> > > 3. Because of (2.), there is better support for modern cards
> > > on the pipe. Specifically, David Airlie (one of X.org developers
> > > from Red Hat) already announced not long ago about major
> > > improvements in r500/r600 chipsets. This is bleeding edge
> > > source in his git repository, but it is reasonable to expect
> > > this code to land within 6-12 months in fast paced distros
> > > (Debian testing, Fedora, etc.)
> > Sorry, but the 2nd and 3rd reasons to choose ATI exist in the future
> > rather than today.
> >
> > If Amos Shapira can wait a year, then let him buy ATI a year from now.
> > But if he needs a solution today, then several of the above promises are
> > not relevant for him.
>
> Bzzt. You oversimplify:
> * Scenario I:
> - Let's assume Amos buys today an old ATI (r300/r400 based)
> because he cannot wait.
>
> - He gets reasonable 3D today (One of my Pentiums began
> doing compiz a year ago, after a regular update [ATI 9100IGP]).
>
> - Items {2,3} *still* apply, because some of the future
> updates would improve even those old cards. For example,
> some of the updates Airlie work on, involve adding kernel
> modesetting support for the old r300/r400 as well.
> (this would help in monitor hotplugging, xrandr, etc.)
>
> * Scenario II:
> - Amos buys today an ATI r500/r600 cards.
> - Can use FOSS drivers today (no 3D acceleration etc.)
> - Or can use proprietary drivers today.
> - But because of items {2,3} he would get an *improved*
> FOSS drivers within the next year (cleanup, release engineering,
> distribution roll out).
Amos presumably needs a working solution TODAY. Promises for bright
future are irrelevant.
If he chooses ATI cards, he should use only 1st reason to justify his
choice. This reason may well be enough to make the justification.
> So with ATI we have an "installment plan" ("Tashlumim")
> in two steps:
> * Get working (but limited) solution today (either old
> cards or proprietary drivers or no 3D acceleration)
> * Get better support for the *same* hardware on the
> next upgrade of your distro.
Plans of mice and men always change. ATI might fold 8 months from now,
or be taken over by nVidia and have its product lines discontinued, or
switch to solar powered 3D holographic displays.
> Where's the second step for nVidia cards?
If they are cheap enough, then the following plan would make economic
sense:
1. Buy today the cheap nVidia cards (such as GeForce FX 5200, which I
chose because of its low price).
2. A year from now, ATI releases its gee whiz drivers. Buy top of line
ATI cards to work with those drivers. Their price will be lower than
the price you'd pay if you bought today the ATI cards.
3. Remove the cheap nVidia cards and have them recycled, or donate them
to one of the Linux based school computer labs.
The difference in price of the ATI cards will cover the cost of the
nVidia cards.
Caveat: the above would work unless Amos's people need to develop custom
graphic software which works only with one type of graphic cards.
--- Omer
--
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