Sorry, but I can't be drawn any further in to this conversation. To address these issues directly is only going to make me look like a major douchebag and obviously isn't going to change your perspective. So by your views we should all be coding in assembly. C is a higher level language. To approach a view of development like this is borderline irresponsible. Every development project has a purpose and requirements. These need to be considered up front. Carrying assumptions that things should only be done in a particular language is detrimental to the ecosystem as a whole. A lot of dynamic languages provide additions and welcomed abstraction from some of the other features of a lower language. Not to mention other requirements you may have. Some people need to broaden their horizons a bit. I will leave it at that. I am going to excuse myself from any further conversion on the subject.
-- *Nathan Hamiel* http://hexsec.com <http://hexsec.com/>http://twitter.com/nathanhamiel blog: www.neohaxor.org On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:01 AM, William L. Thomson Jr. < [email protected]> wrote: > On Tue, 2011-03-22 at 13:47 -0400, Nathan Hamiel wrote: > > Netbeans is primarily Java, and will not be so great at anything else. > > > > > > > Yes, but when support for something is announced I like to see how good > that > > support is. Netbeans used to only support Python through a 3rd party > plugin, > > which is now part of Netbeans. So I tested it and it sucked. > > It just goes to show IDE's can not serve as general purpose tools like a > text editor can. Thus many developers working with code will turn to the > trusty tried and trued text editor of choice. Which if your lame like > me, is nano :) > > > Not sure if that was a jab or not ;) I do "actual" programming in Python. > > You really can't. Anything you do with python will be wrapped around > something written in a real language. I have never seen a codec or > anything low level in Linux be written in python. Or even C++ for that > matter, quite allot is in C. Most everything else calls and wraps that > stuff, be it Java, Python, Perl, Ruby, etc. > > > > I haven't had to go out of Python for the past few years which has been > great. > > That says quite allot right there. I wonder how many of the applications > you use as part of your operating system or otherwise were written in > Python :) > > > However, my development focus is more on writing security tools and not > so > > much on other development areas. Even my GUI based development has been > in > > Python. > > Which again wraps around libraries written in likely C or C++ > > > I find I can do everything I need in Python and QT. > > Python has wrappers for QT, which is C++. Unless your coding in C++ > using the QT library. Where as like GTK is C, unless you use GTKmm. Main > difference between Gnome and KDE, once is written in C the other C++. > > No desktop for Linux is written in Python.... > > > Not to mention the ease of multiple platform support most of the stuff > > I write has to work on Linux, OSX, and Windows. > > Thus the hard work has been done for you. Porting python to the various > OS, which is done in a programming language. Which if python has > security issues, will likely come from that layer. Your relying on > others coders handling Python security at the lower levels. Anything > your doing above even from a security perspective is leveraging others > efforts. > > Its considerably harder to do security at lower levels with programming > languages than it is at higher level with dynamic ones. > > > I am actually writing a Python book so I am obviously spending a lot of > time > > with Python lately. > > Which I am porting code from Python to C for Gentoo. Mostly to get > better with C, but also for performance and other purposes. The security > aspect will be a nightmare. After I wake up from the debugging > nightmare :) > > > To answer your question about Java, C, and C++. I have > > never done a lot of Java stuff, but when I did I used Eclipse. For C I > used > > Anjuta and for the .NET stuff I have had to do I obviously used > VisualStudio > > (Not a fan). > > Reason why I was asking is regarding build systems. At times you can > integrate and use the IDE's build system as part of your project. But > many times you go outside the idea to custom tailor your build > environment. Working with ant or maven if Java. If C or C++ makefiles, > configure/autogen scripts, etc. > > Even when using native tools like Anjuta, there is still much to be > desired and left undone. I haven't really been able to turn to any one > IDE and do everything for an application, from development to debugging > to release, within the IDE. > > > Now there is some stuff I have done with IronPython where I had > > to use IronPython Studio on top of Visual Studio and it wasn't that bad. > > Microsoft Just released pytools Python for Visual Studio > > http://pytools.codeplex.com/. I honestly haven't tried it yet, but > probably > > will at some point just to get a feel for how it is. > > Given the breakage between Python 2.x and 3.x I am avoiding it like the > plague. Its not even ABI or API compliant, and the breakage there is > just nasty. Thankfully when Java did similar things it did it in much > friendly ways keeping legacy compliance in mind. > > -- > William L. Thomson Jr. > Obsidian-Studios, Inc. > http://www.obsidian-studios.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Archive http://marc.info/?l=jaxlug-list&r=1&w=2 > RSS Feed http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml > Unsubscribe [email protected] > >
