I'd like to know the magic that 300lbs of lead gets. My 228Lbs (6 - 55Ah AGM) of lead in a 440lb bike gets a max of 21miles of mixed 0-45MPH. I think @ 60MPH I'd be lucky to get 12... Saturday drove the 15 miles to Boulder (maybe 40% was downhill) @ 55MPH with the the throttle backed off. My batteries were just below 50%. I didn't have enough charge time there so I had to stop half way home to my workplace and hoofed it home (4.5 miles). Next time I do that I verify I will have enough charge time, or more than one charging site and split the charge time. I needed the walk anyway ;-)
BTW: I am approximating but I think so far I have about 220 charge cycles, 95% of those cycles batteries at 75-85%, or higher. Haven't detected any battery degradation so far. Jeff 84 Franken'ceptor On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jeff is <200lbs and gets 45-50 miles on his. Mine is unknown so far as when > we had it running in January we only rode it for short distances. I am >200 > so we'll see how it impacts range with my, er, load. > > As far as 48VDC goes, I think they would run really well on 48 or 72VDC. The > top end might be a little less, at least with current ratios. We tested > several ratios before settling on this one. Any lower and the torque at full > throttle is too much for a street bike. It would definitely surprise people > the first time they rode Jeff's. Go the other way and the launch was pulling > too many amps for too long, and wasn't as much fun to ride. > > Hope that helps! > > > Shawn > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SteveS > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:40 PM > To: ElectricMotorcycles > Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] two motor2 > > What kind of range are you getting? How do you think the motor would > perform on 48V? > > - SteveS > > Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA) wrote: > > I agree with Jeff on the heavier Series motor idea. My bike is almost > > finished. (I was working on it at Jeff Patterson's shop last > weekend...sorry > > I have been remiss on posting any details on the project) The Patterson > > Cycle bikes weigh approx 620lbs on a custom steel frame and use 6 AGM > > batteries - currently I'm using 6 Discover Energy EV24A batteries. Jeff's > > original bike was the same specs just different batteries. When he used a > > standard ADC 6.7" 4 brush motor it would get incredibly hot after 5 to 10 > > minutes of riding - 10 minutes and you couldn't touch it. We worked with > Jim > > Husted to design a motor for the bikes. The current motors (in his and > mine) > > are 7.5" 8 brush series wound motors. They are awesome, after riding till > > batteries were tired, the motor was only warm. The current setup is using > an > > Alltrax 72VDC 450A controller and roughly 5:1 ratio on the sprockets. The > > bike has great acceleration and a top speed of 67 MPH (actual - not > > calculated). These 7.5" motors are wonderful for the heavier bikes. I > > certainly would prefer to wire one motor and have one controller for a > > street bike than two motors and or controllers - lots of extra space and > > wiring. > > > > You will need to check with Jim, but I think the motors are right around > > $900 or so - cheaper than 2 PMG's an only one set of contactors and one > > controller. > > > > I took some pictures after the work on Saturday and will get them posted > > soon... > > > > Thanks, > > > > Shawn > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey > > Blamey > > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:43 PM > > To: ElectricMotorcycles > > Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] two motor2 > > > > Having over 1300 miles on the PMG-132 in a light(er) bike aprox. > > 440lbs and a <200lb rider I find the heat generated in the motor to be > > controllable with the small fans and shroud I made. Where am I going > > with this, oh yeah. If I were trying to build a bike based on a > > heavier frame I would opt for a larger motor, like a D&D or if you > > have deeper pockets one of the smaller Warps or a custom motor from > > JH versus a dual Etek or Dual PMG (2 PMGs will set you back roughly > > $1600 so why not do the series wound and have the thermal mass to > > handle the required power dissipation under acceleration). > > > > Jeff > > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:04 AM, SteveS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> I get the idea of the two motor system, but how does compare to using a > >> larger single motor? I imagine a single larger motor would be easier to > >> install and control. The larger motor would deal with the low speed > torque > >> need, but I wonder about what happens when you get up to speed? Would a > >> larger motor be less efficient? > >> > >> - SteveS > >> > >> dale henderson wrote: > >> > >> > >>> The advantage of a transmission is more power at low speeds while at the > >>> > >> same time reducing the power needed. But once you are up to a cruising > >> > > speed > > > >> the transmission does not any help except for allowing the motors to > >> > > operate > > > >> at high efficiency at more than one speed. The disadvantages of a > >> transmission are increased drag, or lower overall efficiency and > increased > >> weight. > >> > >>> The advantage of a two motor system is that a second motor is often, if > >>> > >> not always, lighter, smaller, simpler and more efficient than a > >> transmission. The disadvantage of a two motor system is increased power > >> requirement. > >> > >>> Here is another way to look at it: if your main concern is high > >>> > > efficiency > > > >> at a particular cursing speed [e.g. highway travel] then longer you > travel > >> the less efficient a transmission becomes and conversely the more > >> > > efficient > > > >> a two motor system becomes. A transmission only increases efficiency > >> > > during > > > >> acceleration once you are at a steady speed the transmission reduces > >> efficiency in terms of drag and weight. While a two motor system is only > >> less efficient during acceleration, so if you have little acceleration > and > >> > > a > > > >> lot of steady speed then two motor system is overall more efficient. > >> > >>> Here is a very simple model; if it gives good results then a closer > >>> > >> examination would be warranted: take a 25-mile highway trip, we'll give a > >> > > ¼ > > > >> mile acceleration; more simply a 100-mile trip with 1-mile acceleration. > >> > > At > > > >> any give time the motorcycle needs X power. A transmission is 5% less > >> efficient than a non-transmission so over 100 miles it will take 100 > miles > >> > > * > > > >> .05 = 5 units more power. The two motor system will take twice the power > >> > > at > > > >> acceleration 1 mile * 2 = 2 units more power. But if you are commuting in > >> stop and go traffic then a 40-mile commute might have over a 1 of > >> acceleration. So a transmission is 40 * .05 = 2 units and a two motor > >> > > system > > > >> is still 2 units. So if your steady speed is more 40 times longer than > >> > > your > > > >> acceleration then a two motor system is more efficient. But if your > steady > >> speed is less 40 times more than acceleration then a transmission is more > >> efficient. A closer study is needed and results will vary based on > >> rider/bike/weight/route/etc… but I think it will be clear that in short > >> > > city > > > >> travel a transmission is more efficient, but in longer highway travel a > >> > > two > > > >> motor system is more efficient. But since an electric motorcycle has a > >> finite range and can't be filled up at the pump then it should be built > to > >> be the most efficient for the longest-range option. Hence once you get an > >> electric bike going over 50 miles on a charge [i.e. lithium] and you have > >> some plans to travel on the highway then a two motor system is the best > >> choice. Further with a 100+ mile range, city travel never be a concern, > >> > > even > > > >> with the lower efficiency of the two motor system, but when a long trip > on > >> the highway is needed the two motor system will shine as it will give you > >> more range than a transmission. > >> > >>> harry > >>> > >>> Albuquerque, NM > >>> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179 > >>> http://geocities.com/solarcookingman > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > >>> > > it > > > >> now. > >> > >> > > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8 > > HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20> > > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1415 - > >>> > > Release > > > >> Date: 5/5/2008 6:01 AM > >> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
