So according to these numbers running at 30 mph for one hour would take you 30 miles and require 85 - 90 ahrs. The specs I looked up on your battery included a rating of 84 ahrs but that is at the 20 hour rate. At an 85 amp draw they are rated to last 32 minutes. So with no stopping and starting, just running at a constant 30 mph your max range will work out to about 16 miles. At your 40 mph current draw the batteries are rated to last 24 minutes which also gets you 16 miles. Here is a link to the specs I used. http://www.marinewarehouse.net/images/batteries/discovery/EV24A-A.pdf damon
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:23:10 -0400Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] two motor2 They are up to the task for this application. They are working well in the EV with a 1000 amp controller (Z1K) set to 800A. It is a commuter application so most of the time the car draws less than 400A. Handling the current will not be a problem for them, but I will have to see what the range is. Here are some numbers from testing on the bike: (Constant speeds) 85-90A @ 30 MPH and 100-105A @ 40 MPH. (Note: I found some slight drag that was there in rolling and have fixed that so the new numbers might be slightly lower, but most likely only by a little.) Shawn From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of damon henrySent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:43 PMTo: ElectricMotorcyclesSubject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] two motor2 Well, we are not talking about drag racing, so 1500 amps is not a requirement, but on my bike which only has a 48 volt Alltrax, I often pull 300 -350 battery amps during acceleration and cruise at between 100 and 200 amps. Are they up to that task? I will be interested in hearing what you find the range of your bike to be with these batteries. As long as they can handle the amps a typical Alltrax controller draws, these sound like a very good choice for EMs. I guess the other thing you have going for you in Florida is the warm weather. damon From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mon, 5 May 2008 16:10:08 -0400Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] two motor2 I should add that for performance applications – like drag racing – the EV24A’s are not a good choice. They are not designed to put out the raw amps like the Orbitals would. They are great for capacity, but not for high current applications… Shawn From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA)Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:06 PMTo: 'ElectricMotorcycles'Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] two motor2 Hi Damon, Well, it is flat here…really flat. For what it’s worth, I have not ridden his bike for 45 miles myself to confirm this, but just going on what he has told me. The specs and performance (other than range) I have confirmed myself. I have done a lot of testing with the bike with both the 6.7” and 7.5” motors. I have used the EV24A’s in some other projects and have been super impressed with them. I have found that for range, they will out perform the Exide Orbitals by a long shot. We used them in a EV that had been running Orbitals at 156VDC and had a range of about 20 miles and with the EV24A’s we were getting 28-29 miles – so about a 50% increase. I am hoping to have my bike up and working this week as we (the folks in the FLEAA) have a big Green Living and Energy Expo down in the FL Keys and we are taking the bikes there. Once the bike is running, I’ll be testing it a lot. I’ll have some cosmetic stuff to follow up on, but the bike will be running this week. One the items that won’t be done this week are the tank covers – the empty shells that look like a tank, but house the DC-DC and charger, etc. I’ll work on getting some pics up tonight… Shawn From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of damon henrySent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:18 PMTo: ElectricMotorcyclesSubject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] two motor2 I'm very skeptical of any EM claiming 45 - 50 mile range on 300lbs of lead. Cut that in half and you are in the right ball park. Either he has much bigger batteries than yours (the EV24a are listed at 50lbs each). Or you are riding on very flat ground (you are in Florida so that much is a given) at very slow speeds and still doing a bit of fibbing. For a motorcycle to get that kind of range on lead at the typical 40 - 60 mph I ride, it takes a lot of lead. I think by the time you add enough to get that much range you end up introducing all kinds of other design problems. If he is running lithium than I could see it, but not on lead.. damon > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: listserv@electricmotorcycles.net> Date: Mon, 5 > May 2008 14:53:23 -0400> Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] two motor2> > > Jeff is <200lbs and gets 45-50 miles on his. Mine is unknown so far as when> > we had it running in January we only rode it for short distances. I am >200> > so we'll see how it impacts range with my, er, load.> > As far as 48VDC goes, > I think they would run really well on 48 or 72VDC. The> top end might be a > little less, at least with current ratios. We tested> several ratios before > settling on this one. Any lower and the torque at full> throttle is too much > for a street bike. It would definitely surprise people> the first time they > rode Jeff's. Go the other way and the launch was pulling> too many amps for > too long, and wasn't as much fun to ride.> > Hope that helps!> > Shawn> > > -----Original Message-----> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL > PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SteveS> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:40 PM> To: > ElectricMotorcycles> Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] two motor2> > What > kind of range are you getting? How do you think the motor would > perform on > 48V?> > - SteveS> > Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA) wrote:> > I agree with Jeff on the > heavier Series motor idea. My bike is almost> > finished. (I was working on > it at Jeff Patterson's shop last> weekend...sorry> > I have been remiss on > posting any details on the project) The Patterson> > Cycle bikes weigh approx > 620lbs on a custom steel frame and use 6 AGM> > batteries - currently I'm > using 6 Discover Energy EV24A batteries. Jeff's> > original bike was the same > specs just different batteries. When he used a> > standard ADC 6.7" 4 brush > motor it would get incredibly hot after 5 to 10> > minutes of riding - 10 > minutes and you couldn't touch it. We worked with> Jim> > Husted to design a > motor for the bikes. The current motors (in his and> mine)> > are 7.5" 8 > brush series wound motors. They are awesome, after riding till> > batteries > were tired, the motor was only warm. The current setup is using> an> > > Alltrax 72VDC 450A controller and roughly 5:1 ratio on the sprockets. The> > > bike has great acceleration and a top speed of 67 MPH (actual - not> > > calculated). These 7.5" motors are wonderful for the heavier bikes. I> > > certainly would prefer to wire one motor and have one controller for a> > > street bike than two motors and or controllers - lots of extra space and> > > wiring. > >> > You will need to check with Jim, but I think the motors are > right around> > $900 or so - cheaper than 2 PMG's an only one set of > contactors and one> > controller. > >> > I took some pictures after the work > on Saturday and will get them posted> > soon...> >> > Thanks,> >> > Shawn> >> > > -----Original Message-----> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > [mailto:[EMAIL > PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey> > Blamey> > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:43 > PM> > To: ElectricMotorcycles> > Subject: Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] two > motor2> >> > Having over 1300 miles on the PMG-132 in a light(er) bike > aprox.> > 440lbs and a <200lb rider I find the heat generated in the motor to > be> > controllable with the small fans and shroud I made. Where am I going> > > with this, oh yeah. If I were trying to build a bike based on a> > heavier > frame I would opt for a larger motor, like a D&D or if you> > have deeper > pockets one of the smaller Warps or a custom motor from> > JH versus a dual > Etek or Dual PMG (2 PMGs will set you back roughly> > $1600 so why not do the > series wound and have the thermal mass to> > handle the required power > dissipation under acceleration).> >> > Jeff> >> > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:04 > AM, SteveS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > > >> I get the idea of the two motor > system, but how does compare to using a> >> larger single motor? I imagine a > single larger motor would be easier to> >> install and control. The larger > motor would deal with the low speed> torque> >> need, but I wonder about what > happens when you get up to speed? Would a> >> larger motor be less > efficient?> >>> >> - SteveS> >>> >> dale henderson wrote:> >>> >> > >>> The > advantage of a transmission is more power at low speeds while at the> >>> > > >> same time reducing the power needed. But once you are up to a cruising> >> > > > speed> > > >> the transmission does not any help except for allowing the > motors to> >> > > operate> > > >> at high efficiency at more than one speed. > The disadvantages of a> >> transmission are increased drag, or lower overall > efficiency and> increased> >> weight.> >> > >>> The advantage of a two motor > system is that a second motor is often, if> >>> > >> not always, lighter, > smaller, simpler and more efficient than a> >> transmission. The disadvantage > of a two motor system is increased power> >> requirement.> >> > >>> Here is > another way to look at it: if your main concern is high> >>> > > efficiency> > > > >> at a particular cursing speed [e.g. highway travel] then longer you> > travel> >> the less efficient a transmission becomes and conversely the more> > >> > > efficient> > > >> a two motor system becomes. A transmission only > increases efficiency> >> > > during> > > >> acceleration once you are at a > steady speed the transmission reduces> >> efficiency in terms of drag and > weight. While a two motor system is only> >> less efficient during > acceleration, so if you have little acceleration> and> >> > > a> > > >> lot > of steady speed then two motor system is overall more efficient.> >> > >>> > Here is a very simple model; if it gives good results then a closer> >>> > >> > examination would be warranted: take a 25-mile highway trip, we'll give a> >> > > > ¼> > > >> mile acceleration; more simply a 100-mile trip with 1-mile > acceleration.> >> > > At> > > >> any give time the motorcycle needs X power. > A transmission is 5% less> >> efficient than a non-transmission so over 100 > miles it will take 100> miles> >> > > *> > > >> .05 = 5 units more power. The > two motor system will take twice the power> >> > > at> > > >> acceleration 1 > mile * 2 = 2 units more power. But if you are commuting in> >> stop and go > traffic then a 40-mile commute might have over a 1 of> >> acceleration. So a > transmission is 40 * .05 = 2 units and a two motor> >> > > system> > > >> is > still 2 units. So if your steady speed is more 40 times longer than> >> > > > your> > > >> acceleration then a two motor system is more efficient. But if > your> steady> >> speed is less 40 times more than acceleration then a > transmission is more> >> efficient. A closer study is needed and results will > vary based on> >> rider/bike/weight/route/etc… but I think it will be clear > that in short> >> > > city> > > >> travel a transmission is more efficient, > but in longer highway travel a> >> > > two> > > >> motor system is more > efficient. But since an electric motorcycle has a> >> finite range and can't > be filled up at the pump then it should be built> to> >> be the most > efficient for the longest-range option. Hence once you get an> >> electric > bike going over 50 miles on a charge [i.e. lithium] and you have> >> some > plans to travel on the highway then a two motor system is the best> >> > choice. Further with a 100+ mile range, city travel never be a concern,> >> > > > even> > > >> with the lower efficiency of the two motor system, but when a > long trip> on> >> the highway is needed the two motor system will shine as it > will give you> >> more range than a transmission.> >> > >>> harry> >>>> >>> > Albuquerque, NM> >>> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179> >>> > http://geocities.com/solarcookingman> >>>> >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------> >>> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try> >>> > > > it> > > >> now.> >>> >> > >> > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8> > > HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20>> > > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------> > >>>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message.> >>> Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1415 -> >>> > > Release> > > >> > Date: 5/5/2008 6:01 AM> >> > >>> > >>> >>> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > Windows Live SkyDrive lets you share files with faraway friends. Start sharing. Get Free (PRODUCT) RED™ Emoticons, Winks and Display Pics. Check it out! _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_052008
