---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Phill Whiteside <phi...@phillw.net> Date: 14 March 2014 20:19 Subject: Re: 9w - an installer for old computers To: Nio Wiklund <nio.wikl...@gmail.com> Cc: lubuntu user list <Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
Hi Nio, can you ensure that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu#System_Requirements is up to date. Regards, Phill. On 10 March 2014 01:46, Nio Wiklund <nio.wikl...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi again! > > A couple of friends at the Ubuntu Forums have helped us find the low > limit of hardware, when Lubuntu Saucy and Trusty can run (as installed > with the 9w installer) > > See this link (posts #76-79) > > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2209683&page=4&p=12952191#post12952191 > > Doug S wrote { > > Ventrical @ 166 Mhz and 80 Megabytes is not enough. Me at 200 Mhz and > 115 Megabytes right on the edge, and while installation was fine, > operationally probably not enough. > } > > Best regards > Nio > > 2014-03-08 13:38, Nio Wiklund skrev: > > [my text is at the end except the link] > > > > http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/ > > > > > > 2014-03-08 12:24, Ali Linx skrev: > >> > >> On 03/08/2014 01:30 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote: > >>> 2014-03-07 01:53, Nio Wiklund skrev: > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> We want to try a new kernel for Trusty Tahr, that is developed by > >>>> PhillW. Many people help to build an Ubuntu based operating system > >>>> around it, a system that should work on most computers (maybe except > >>>> some of those brand new ones that cannot switch off UEFI). > >>>> > >>>> We have a wide variety of computers, but have not found any really old > >>>> one without PAE capability. I'm not talking about Pentium M and > Celeron > >>>> M, I'm talking about CPUs before Pentium II: > >>>> > >>>> Pentium Pro, Pentium (i586), or Intel 486 or maybe the corresponding > >>>> generation of AMD from 1993-1997. > >>>> > >>>> I have an old computer from 1998, and it has a Pentium II CPU at 400 > >>>> MHz, so it must be older. Check for a clock frequency at or below 200 > >>>> MHz. > >>>> > >>>> If you are a happy owner of such a jewel, please help us test that the > >>>> non-pae kernel really works in a computer without PAE capability :-) > >>>> > >>>> Best regards > >>>> Nio > >>>> > >>> Hi again, > >>> > >>> After some [private] replies offering tests on old enough hardware, I > >>> can report the following results: > >>> > >>> You can try the installer (to find out if it boots and runs in text > mode > >>> with really low RAM). An older computer might need less RAM for drivers > >>> than my IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU. > >>> > >>> *The Debian installer, live in an iso file* > >>> > >>> It starts in text mode and uses 18 MB RAM when idle (and 22 MB in a > >>> newer computer with AMD Athlon dual core 4400+), but I have problems > >>> below 64 MB, set with the boot option (text is default) > >>> > >>> mem=48M > >>> > >>> in an old IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU. > >>> > >>> it cannot unpack initramfs > >>> > >>> *Ubuntu Trusty installed system with Phill's non-pae kernel* > >>> > >>> The Ubuntu Trusty kernel needs more RAM, now after some > >>> testing I would say at least 64 MB, but I have problems below 80 MB, > set > >>> with the boot options > >>> > >>> text mem=64M > >>> > >>> in the same old IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU. > >>> > >>> When idling > >>> > >>> free -m # shows 38 MB RAM used > >>> htop # shows 39 MB RAM used > >>> > >>> but it seems more RAM is needed at some stage of the boot process. > >>> > >>> -o- > >>> > >>> The really old computers available so far have too low RAM, except one, > >>> with a Pentium Pro at 200 Mhz. It has 128 Megabytes of memory. The > >>> computer was purchased on 1996.08.31. But it has a PAE flag and should > >>> be PAE capable. > >>> > >>> I'm starting to think, that most computers if not all, that are old > >>> enough to lack PAE capability have too low RAM anyway for our new > Ubuntu > >>> flavour non-pae kernel. > >>> > >>> The outstanding exceptions are Celeron M and Pentium M, that lack the > >>> PAE flag, but in most cases have PAE capability. > >> > >> Further to my previous reply: > >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2014-March/006876.html > >> > >> I have forgotten to mention that on this thread: > >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1590614 > >> > >> I manged to install - trying again to save you the trouble to go through > >> all the posts of that long thread - Linux on such super old machine (P2 > >> with 64MB RAM and 4GB HDD) by: > >> > >> 1- Taking the HDD out - because the machine itself has nothing to be > >> used to install Linux. > >> 2- Plugged the HDD to another machine. > >> 3- Linux installed - I wasted one month for this experiment because more > >> than 50 different systems didn't work - check the thread. > >> 4- Disconnected the HDD and put it back in. > >> > >> One month, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, I learned a lot and proved a lot > >> but the real result wasn't helpful for a daily use. Why? because these > >> machines can no longer serve while we are in 2014. > >> > >> I was shocked when I managed to connect to the Wireless Network and > >> update the system. But that was the further I managed to go IIRC. > >> > >> See the thread if you wish: > >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1590614 > >> > >> If anyone still think I'm wrong, see the thread :) > >> > >> And first thing you do, check the date of that thread: October 8th, 2010 > >> > >>> Best regards > >>> Nio > >>> > >> Thank you! > >> > > > > Hi everybody :-) > > > > I see your points, I just want to explore things and find out myself. > > > > > > *. 9w - an installer for old computers > > > > So I uploaded a directory with an experimental installer and two sample > > systems to install. The installer is based on a Debian system with an > > i486 kernel, and it can install any kind of [free] operating system. > > There are two sample systems which expand to 4 GB > > > > Lubuntu Trusty non-pae built february 23 'Ltrusty-npae-feb23.iso' > > Lubuntu Saucy PAE-for-Pentium-M 'LubuSaucy-pae2pm-4GB.iso' > > > > 9w comes as a hybrid ISO file, that works from CD/DVD and cloned from > > USB. So it is simple to make install media for most old computers. > > > > See this link > > > > http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/ > > > > > > 1. What computer will run at all, will be able to do some 'real work', > > etc? It might be worth the effort just for the sake of knowledge. > > > > > > 2. What computers are the target for a non-pae Ubuntu kernel? > > > > With the new fix in Trusty, [almost all] Pentium M and Celeron M will > > work with standard 32-bit kernel and the very simple tweak to add the > > boot option 'forcepae'. > > > > If all pre-Pentium II computers are out of the question, how many > > computers remain? For example: Are there motherboards, that are non-pae, > > and are not helped by fake-PAE? Other problems? > > > > I'm thinking of Jörn's reply: > > > > -------- Ursprungligt meddelande -------- > > Ämne: Re: have you got a really old computer > > Datum: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 22:48:24 +0100 > > Från: Joern <joern.schoen...@web.de> > > Till: Nio Wiklund <nio.wikl...@gmail.com> > > > > There also some CPUs that aren't PAE capable but were likely shipped > > with enough RAM, like some VIA ones, 1 or 2 versions of Pentium M with > > 1.2 GHz and the Transmeta Crusoe. > > > > Jörn > > -------- > > > > > > 3. What computers are the target for ToriOS? > > > > - Is Pentium 4 and 512 MB RAM the low limit? > > > > > > Best regards > > Nio > > > > -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw -- <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw>https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
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