Dear Martin
I did not intend to say that you suggested that the change from TI
to TO occurred for Dowland with the change from 7c to 9c. I quote
myself,
"However, I was mainly thinking about your decision not to change to
TI, and I wonder whether Dowland
did not change to TO at the same time as he took up the 9c, as Martin
claims he did (I mean take up the 9c, never adopting the 8c),"
My brackets make that quite clear, or at least I thought they did. "I
mean take up the 9c, never adopting the 8c", I was making precise
what part of the preceding sentencce I was assoiciating with you,
"the change from 7c to 9c", but not that this corresponded to the
change from TI to TO.
I know you consider that the TI/TO change, and the change from
horizontal to raised, is related to the increase in the number of
courses (I did not read at what moment you though this took place),
but I have some doubts about that (see my PS).
Many lutists do play TI on 10 course lutes. There is no direct and
obligatory connection, therefore.
This is a complex issue, and there is the lute angle, the thumb I/O
position, and the right hand change from close to the rose / close to
the bridge, to consider.
Are all these related, or independent? Research widened to
instruments that are the lute's cousins might perhaps shed some light
on this issue,
but I will return to the question of RH position in another message.
Although I did believe you stated that Dowland had played the 9c
lute, and I did jump to the conclusion that you meant he went
straight from 7c to 9c.
The point was not there, however, and I take entire responsibilty for
the idea that the change to TO might have corresponded with that
change to 9c, and perhaps the type of string.
It could also have occurred at the introduction of a loaded bass
string on a 7c, but 7c lutes did exist quite early on with 6c lutes,
presumably without such a change.
I was not putting forward a formal argument, just a speculation.
I would have liked to know, however, a little more about the change
form 9c to 10c, and whether a 9/10c was feasible.
Best regards
Anthony
PS We might note that a change of position from horizontal to almost
vertical also occurred with the Pipa, a cousin of our lute, without
any change in the number of strings, just corresponding to the
change from plectrum to fingers, and TO, perhpas related to the
increase in the number of frets on the lute belly. In this case the
raised position seems to have allowed the player to use much higher
frets.
Le 3 avr. 08 =E0 12:29, Martin Shepherd a ecrit :
> Dear Anthony and All,
>
> I assume the "Martin" you refer to is me. I don't remember ever
> saying that I thought Dowland changed from 7c to 9c without ever
> using an 8c, or that any of these changes coincided with his change
> from TI to TO. We simply don't know the answer to any of these
> questions.
>
> I do think it likely that the change from TI to TO is related to
> the increase in number of courses, and also to the change in
> musical style from equal-voiced polyphony to a more treble-and-bass
> style.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Martin
>
> P.S. A 10c can always be retuned to look like a 9c lute, but with
> a 10/11c lute you have to change the nut and all the strings - not
> something you want to do every week. Well, actually you could
> compromise on absolute pitch and leave the 5th to 10th courses as
> they are, putting thicker strings on the first four courses to
> allow them to be tuned down. Just to make this clear, imagine your
> 10c lute is in nominal A, so the 6th course is the same as in the
> Dm tuning 11c version:
> 10c ----> 11c
> 1. a' f' (down a major third)
> 2. e' d' (down a tone)
> 3. b a (down a tone)
> 4. g f (down a tone)
> 5. d d
> 6. A A
> 7. G G
> 8. F F
> 9. E E
> 10.D D
> 11. C
>
> If you did this with a 67cm lute you would probably be tuning the
> top string to f' in the old tuning so in the new tuning it would be
> d' flat, a very low pitch for this string length.
>
>
> Anthony Hind wrote:
>
>>
>> However, I was mainly thinking about your decision not to change
>> to TI, and I wonder whether Dowland
>> did not change to TO at the same time as he took up the 9c, as
>> Martin claims he did (I mean take up the 9c, never adopting the 8c),
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
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