So... what's the magic tuning? --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@gmail.com> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > To: "Eugene C. Braig IV" <brai...@osu.edu>, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 10:29 AM > Well, the problem is that AB's "JSB" > tunins is not hypothetical, but is > rather based on a real (albeit rare) angelique tuning, that > does in fact > remove all difficulties from JSB's lute works. > I personally find it plausible. > RT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eugene C. Braig IV" <brai...@osu.edu> > To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:15 AM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > Wow. I don't believe there is good evidence Bach > wrote anything at all > specifically for proper lutes. The case for some of > the "lute" works being > intended for hypothetical lute seems better than some > others. But still, > tablatures don't exist in Bach's hand. The fact that > a newly invented lute > type makes playing some lautenwerk piece "quite playable" > doesn't seem to > lend anything to discussions of Bach's intent in his own > time. > > What about the six mandolin suites? Bach admired > Vivaldi who wrote several > works for mandolin. Handel used it in an > oratorio. Surely, Bach must have > composed six suites for mandolin just as for the cello and > violin, eh? We > have just yet to find any of them. ...Or perhaps he > wrote dozens of suites > for cello just as he did for harpsichord (English, French, > partitas, etc.). > It will be a great day when those dozens of missing cello > suites are > uncovered and transcribed by guitarists everywhere. > > Eugene > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > On > > Behalf Of Mark Wheeler > > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 10:27 AM > > To: 'Sauvage Valéry'; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > Well if you find playing "a guitar in form of a lute > saying it is a lute" > > strange then have a look at this promotion text from > the same lutenist.. > > > > "It is assumed that Bach, just as for the violin and > the cello, composed > > six > > solo suites for lute. But only a few of these > incredibly difficult lute > > compositions have been preserved. Eric Bellocq > accepted the challenge and > > reconstructed a complete suite cycle. For this > purpose, he had a 'luito > > forte' built, which all of a sudden makes these > compositions quite > > playable!" > > > > Who assumes that there are 6 solo suites for lute, > where is the evidence? > > All of the surviving Bach compositions or arrangements > have been recorded > > many times, so they are playable on a standard baroque > lute. > > > > Eric's text is of course absolute hogwash, but it is > the sort of thing > > that > > some classical promoters probably lap up, not > surprising considering that > > huge portions of the mega-narrative of classical music > dreamed up in the > > 19th century is equally ridiculous. But wasn't one of > the aims of the > > early > > music movement to try to get beyond these assumptions > and myths. > > > > Mark > > > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > Im > > Auftrag > > von Sauvage Valéry > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. Dezember 2009 15:58 > > An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > I'm not against guitar and guitar players (as a guitar > player myself, on > > romantic intrument ;-) but I don't understand why play > a guitar in form of > > a > > > > lute saying it is a lute, as I find my normal lute > "forte" enough in > > itself, > > > > that's all. And after, eveyone makes whatever he > wants... > > V. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <terli...@aol.com> > > To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:30 PM > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: terli...@aol.com > > > To: chriswi...@yahoo.com > > > Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:22 am > > > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I write at the risk of being gummed to death by a > horde of irate > > > lutenists: > > > > > > > > > I don't know what kind of guitars and guitar > playing lutenists here have > > > been exposed to here but there is a wide variety > of types of guitars and > > > playing styles. Hauser style guitar guitars are > very good for playing > > some > > > > > lute music. Smallman type guitars are less good > for playing most lute > > > music. To play lute music decently on guitar > takes a certain > > touch...there > > > > > are players that can do it. > > > The guitar (unamplified) works great great in > ensemble playing e.g > > Boulez: > > > > > Le marteau sans maître: Webern op.18, > > > Takemitsu: Ring for Lute,flute and guitar... > > > Best, > > > Mark Delpriora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: chriswi...@yahoo.com > > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; > Sauvage Valéry <sauvag...@orange.fr> > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2009 6:18 pm > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > > > > > > Valery, > > > > > > --- On Sat, 12/19/09, Sauvage Valéry <sauvag...@orange.fr> > wrote: > > >> Ok forte, > > >> we can hear it, but sounds like a guitar > (single strung for > > >> the one he used). > > >> So why not play the guitar ? modern and loud > instrument you > > >> can play with nails... > > > > > > Really? I've found the modern classical > guitar to be a really, really > > > awful > > > ensemble instrument when dealing with anything > else other than other > > > classical > > > guitars or one other instrument/voice. > While the signal coming from it > > > may be > > > technically louder than most types of lutes, it > is designed to emphasize > > > the > > > lower partials so that the sound is literally > swallowed up by other > > modern > > > instruments. This sort of dark timbre can > be very effective for a > > certain > > > portion (but not all) of the solo repertoire, but > it really loses its > > > charm in > > > other situations. This is why A) it MUST be > played with nails B) even > > > then it > > > doesn't project particularly well and C) you > often hear the instrument > > > amplified > > > in even small ensembles. > > > > > > If you're going to amplify it, what's the point > of using that type of > > > guitar > > > (unless you want to make the amplification part > of the effect and timbre > > > itself, > > > a la George Crumb)? This is why I haven't > used a classical guitar in > > any > > > of my > > > ensemble music for years. A steel-string > guitar works very well > > > unamplified in > > > a small ensemble and the electric guitar has no > volume limitations at > > all. > > > Contemporary composers would find much of > interest in these instruments > > > and > > > modern classical guitarists would be well advised > to think of them as > > > alternate > > > versions of their instrument. Unfortunately, > classical players often > > > perceive > > > them as some kind of threat from outside the > "official" guitar world. > > > > > > I haven't found this same problem with lutes or > theorbos. The emphasis > > of > > > higher partials means that the sound on both can > cut through quite well. > > > Play > > > close to the bridge and you can be heard most of > the time. I've been > > > thinking > > > of writing a duo for lute and modern > guitar. Maybe now's the time to > > > investigate the project. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "wolfgang > wiehe" <wie-w...@gmx.de> > > >> To: <terli...@aol.com>; > > >> <r.turov...@verizon.net>; > > >> <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > >> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 8:05 PM > > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I heard a "liuto forte" this year at our DLG > meeting on > > >> "Burg > > >> Sternberg". Hmm, not louder than my > g-lute...;-) > > >> Greetings > > >> W. > > >> > > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > >> Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > > >> [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > > >> Im > > >> Auftrag von terli...@aol.com > > >> Gesendet: Samstag, 19. Dezember 2009 19:41 > > >> An: r.turov...@verizon.net; > > >> lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > >> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > >> > > >> > > >> OR suitable for a guitarist who is NOT sick > of the guitar > > >> repertoire! > > >> . and is happy with finger nails. > > >> > > >> > > >> Roman, Did you go to the the demonstration of > the liuto > > >> forte hat > > >> occurred at the Met Museum a year or 3 ago? > > >> > > >> > > >> I missed it. > > >> > > >> > > >> Mark Delpriora > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@verizon.net> > > >> To: Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > >> Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2009 11:51 am > > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > >> > > >> > > >> It is a single-strung lute and guitar hybrid > designed by > > >> Andre Burguete, > > >> that aproximates lute sound while purporting > to have the > > >> volume of the > > >> guitar. It uses nylon overspun with fine > steel wire, and > > >> has some > > >> interesting and useful peculiarities in the > bridge and > > >> soundboard > > >> construction. > > >> Fixed metal frets are supposedly less > dampening to the > > >> sound > > >> (negligibly). > > >> This technology might yield a nice and loud > theorbo in ET. > > >> But one really misses the overtone palette of > double > > >> strings. > > >> It is a very suitable instrument for a > guitarist who is > > >> sick of the > > >> guitar repertoire, but is unwilling to part > with his > > >> nails. > > >> > > >> http://www.liuto-forte.com/ > > >> There are a number of notable converts to it: > Oliver > > >> Holzenburg, Luciano > > >> Contini et al. > > >> RT > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel > Winheld" > > >> <dwinh...@comcast.net> > > >> To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > >> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 11:31 AM > > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > >> > > >> > Alright, I'll bite- What in God's > name is Liuto > > >> Forte? (I must have > > >> > been out of the office for this one) > > >> > thanks, Dan > > >> > -- > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > To get on or off this list see list > information at > > >> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
