Perhaps lute types also function differently. I recently compared my
11c Warwick with an 11c muliti-ribbed yew backed Tieffenbruchar by the
same maker. I did not have enough time with it to be able to make any
final pronouncements, but projection and sound type were very
different.
The Tieffenbruchar had more interior resonances, but strangely almost a
beam projection.
It seemed quite loud but only from immediately in front, much less so
from the side, and almost inaudible from the rear (with the lute
pointing in the oposite direction). The warwick seemed to give a wider
simpler projection, with less interior rumblings.
Of course the Warwick was two years old while the Tieffenbruchar was
but a babe in arms, so that could also be an issue.
Sean when I heard Jacob Heringman, he was playing his Andie Rutherford
60 cm Gerle, which is reputed for its projection, I believe.
Best regards
Anthony
__________________________________________________________________
De : wolfgang wiehe <wie-w...@gmx.de>
A : Christopher Wilke <chriswi...@yahoo.com>; agno3ph...@yahoo.com;
wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Envoye le : Lun 18 octobre 2010, 15h 08min 00s
Objet : Re: [LUTE] Re: Lute volume
some years ago we had a playersday in hamburg in a church. one
performed piece was a duo between renaissance lute and soprano
recorder. near the performers, i was able to hear more or less the
recorder only. while walking away to the entrance of the church the
lute sound comes more and more out of the shade of the recorder sound
and was very present.
greetings
w.
p.s. I think, there is no linear relationship between different
instruments
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 05:52:37 -0700 (PDT)
> Von: Christopher Wilke <[1]chriswi...@yahoo.com>
> An: [2]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi, Anthony Hind <[3]agno3ph...@yahoo.com>
> CC: [4]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Lute volume
> Anthony,
>
> --- On Mon, 10/18/10, Anthony Hind <[5]agno3ph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I was told
> > by a lutenist and theorbist that in a
> > recent rehearsal with a rather
> > large Baroque group accompanied by a
> > relatively large number of
> > singers, the director told my friend to
> > hold back a little as he was
> > projecting too well. The theorbo was gut
> > strung.
>
> I've been told this by several different directors, too. (Theorbo:
toy
> class. Stringing: synthetic and gut). Never believe them! After
every
> concert where I've been asked to hold back, I've asked people from
the audience
> whether they could hear me. Comments ranged from "in a few spots" to
"not
> at all." Really, have you ever been to an ensemble concert where
you've
> thought "that lute is too loud"?
>
> The problem rises from the fact that, despite my early comment about
the
> lute's sound traveling better than the classical guitar's, it still
doesn't
> compare with strings, voices or even harpsichord. While the ensemble
may
> have a dynamic range from 1-10, a plucker is going to have maybe 1-4
- with
> "4" being your most aggressive, string-ripping ffff. In reality, it
means
> that you've got to play fff (3.5 or so) in normal passages, and ff in
> pianos. To the director and fellow musicians it can sound like
you're massively
> overplaying. For the person in row two or 32, it will sound just
right.
>
> I've never wanted to argue with a director. I've also been tempted
to lay
> back in rehearsals, then simply disregard orders and amp it up in
> performance, but I've never had the guts to do it. Unprofessional
behavior and all
> that jazz.
>
> Chris
>
> Christopher Wilke
> Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
> [6]www.christopherwilke.com
>
>
>
>
> > Anthony
> >
> > ---- Message d'origine ----
> > >De : [7]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
> > >A : "Thomas Schall" <[8]lauten...@lautenist.de>
> > >Objet : [LUTE] Re: Lute volume
> > >Date : 18/10/2010 11:29:38 CEST
> > >Copie `a : "Gary Digman" <[9]magg...@sonic.net>;
> > > [10]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > >
> > >I second Thomas' comment: I've seen
> > and heard Bream play lute, I've
> > seen
> > > and with some trouble heard
> > something of Hoppy's playing, and I have
> > > only _seen_ Rooley accompanying his
> > song ensemble, not heard the lute
> > > (it was in 70's...)
> > >
> > > Arto
> > >
> > >
> > > On 18/10/10 11:26, Thomas Schall
> > wrote:
> > > > I can follow your comment about
> > Hoppy because he is playing at a
> > > > *very* low volume. I have heard
> > him both in a large church playing
> > as
> > > > well as in a small salon. The
> > first has been disappointing - the
> > > > second has been a nice
> > experience.
> > > > I've heard Julian Bream in a
> > larger room - volume has not been a
> > > > problem at all .
> > > >
> > > > Thomas
> > > >
> > > > Am 18.10.2010 10:06, schrieb
> > Gary Digman:
> > > >> Two of the lute players I
> > was referring to were Julian Bream and
> > > >> Hopkinson Smith. Both
> > playing to audiences of over 250 people and
> > > >> neither could be heard past
> > the seventh row no matter how much
> > focus
> > > >> one brought to the event.
> > Fortunately in the Julian Bream concert
> > I
> > > >> was able to sneak down to
> > an empty seat in the first row. Not so
> > in
> > > >> the Hoppy concert, the
> > first eight rows were reserved for season
> > > >> ticket holders. However, I
> > was able to hear Hoppy play in a
> > library
> > > >> concert later where the
> > conditions were ideal for the lute. The
> > > >> audience was limited to
> > eighty people and the stage was an
> > elevated
> > > >> platform affording everyone
> > in the room the opportunity to both
> > hear
> > > >> and see Hoppy play.
> > > >>
> > > >> Gary
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message
> > ----- From: "Christopher Wilke"
> > > >> <[11]chriswi...@yahoo.com>
> > > >> To: <[12]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>;
> > "Gary Digman" <[13]magg...@sonic.net>
> > > >> Sent: Sunday, October 17,
> > 2010 7:51 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re:
> > Lute volume
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> Gary,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --- On Sun, 10/17/10,
> > Gary Digman <[14]magg...@sonic.net>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> That being said, I
> > have to admit that I have attended lute
> > > >>>> concerts given by
> > some of the leading lights of the lute
> > > >>>> world for audiences
> > numbering in the hundreds where the lute
> > > >>>> literally could not
> > be heard at all past the seventh or
> > > >>>> eighth row. Very
> > frustating to pay $35-$80 for a ticket only
> > > >>>> to find out you
> > will not be able to hear the lute no matter
> > > >>>> how focused you
> > are. I think if we're going to play for
> > > >>>> audiences this
> > large, some sound reinforcement may become
> > > >>>> necessary even
> > though it is a compromise. Other instruments
> > > >>>> have had to deal
> > with this problem. Jazz bassists amplify
> > > >>>> the double bass,
> > even though the best and purest sound of
> > > >>>> the double bass is
> > thereby compromised, in order to be
> > > >>>> heard.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Back when I got my
> > Master's in classical guitar, projection was a
> > > >>> major focus of our
> > training. While the ability to produce a
> > > >>> dynamically nuanced
> > performance was assumed and formed a major
> > part
> > > >>> of our grades, we were
> > also expected to understand the
> > > >>> practicalities of
> > performing in less than ideal circumstances. We
> > > >>> were told repeatedly:
> > get to the hall early; have someone listen
> > to
> > > >>> you as you test the
> > dynamic threshold; be prepared to let go of
> > some
> > > >>> of the precious dynamic
> > or phrasing ideas you worked out alone in
> > > >>> the practice room; you
> > might want to consider moving your right
> > hand
> > > >>> position a little
> > closer to the bridge as a general position for
> > > >>> this concert; descend
> > to really low volume as a special effect
> > only
> > > >>> were dramatically
> > appropriate - maybe once or twice in a program;
> > > >>> above all, HAVE REGARD
> > FOR YOUR LISTENERS.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I've never encountered
> > this in my lute training, where the
> > emphasis
> > > >>> has been decidedly on
> > working out even more subtle gradations.
> > This
> > > >>> is all well and good -
> > professionals should have total control
> > over
> > > >>> the instrument - but
> > what about the people on the other side of
> > the
> > > >>> lute? There's no reason
> > a lute can't feature in the same size
> > halls
> > > >>> as classical guitar.
> > Although the overall volume is slightly
> > less,
> > > >>> it carries far better
> > than the comparatively bass-heavy, mellow
> > > >>> modern guitar.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The real problem comes
> > down to two culprits: the myth of the lute
> > as
> > > >>> "mystical window to
> > another era," and the strong-weak
> > articulation.
> > > >>> I'm prepared dismiss
> > the former, a view which embraces the idea
> > of
> > > >>> the lute as some sort
> > of delicate magical device whose spell will
> > be
> > > >>> broken if its voice
> > rises above a hush, because this is a fairly
> > > >>> tale modernism. The
> > latter is more difficult. We all know that
> > > >>> good-bad, strong-weak
> > alternation was part of early music. In
> > > >>> practical terms,
> > however, if you're playing in a large hall and
> > no
> > > >>> one can hear your weak
> > notes, the audience is literally missing
> > half
> > > >>> of what you're playing.
> > A player might have to settle for
> > > >>> strong-less strong or
> > REALLY STRONG-strong or even strong-strong
> > in
> > > >>> some cases. Sorry, you
> > might just have to eschew showing off what
> > > >>> an erudite, HIP
> > musician you are in lieu of showing off the
> > music.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I once took a large
> > group of my classical guitar students to hear
> > a
> > > >>> big name lutenist who
> > was performing in a not-especially-large
> > > >>> venue. My students all
> > said that the concert was boring because
> > the
> > > >>> performer only played
> > simple little pieces. When I actually
> > showed
> > > >>> them the sheet music to
> > some of the pieces played, they couldn't
> > > >>> believe the degree of
> > musical sophistication involved. They left
> > > >>> with the impression
> > that the lute had some great music written
> > for
> > > >>> you, but its really a
> > weak little instrument. I had to sympathize
> > > >>> with their position
> > because I too felt that many of the
> > subtleties
> > > >>> of the music never got
> > to the audience due to the incredibly
> > > >>> intimate, sensitive
> > touch of the performer. As a lute fan, I
> > could
> > > >>> appreciate the
> > performer's awesome control, but I could not
> > actually
> > > >>> experience it.
> > Ultimately, despite great artistry, this person
> > was
> > > >>> really a poor
> > ambassador for the instrument.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Chris
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Gary
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ----- Original
> > Message ----- From: "Ron Andrico"
> > > >>>> <[15]praelu...@hotmail.com>
> > > >>>> To: <[16]nedma...@aol.com>;
> > > >>>> <[17]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > > >>>> Sent: Saturday,
> > October 16, 2010 11:29 AM
> > > >>>> Subject: [LUTE]
> > Lute volume
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> > To All:
> > > >>>> > We have a new
> > post on our blog that
> > > >>>> may be of general
> > lute interest,
> > > >>>> > concerning
> > volume in performance.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>>
> >
>
[1][18]http://mignarda.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/sound-check-is-it-loud-
enou
> > gh/
> > >
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> > Best wishes,
> > > >>>> > Ron &
> > Donna
> > > >>>> >
> > [2][19]www.mignarda.com
> > > >>>> > --
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > To get on or
> > off this list see list information at
> > > >>>> >
[3][20]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> >
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -
> > > --------
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> No virus found in
> > this incoming message.
> > > >>>> Checked by AVG -
> > [4][21]www.avg.com
> > > >>>> Version: 9.0.862 /
> > Virus Database: 271.1.1/3199 - Release
> > > >>>> Date: 10/15/10
> > 11:34:00
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> >
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > > ------
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> No virus found in this
> > incoming message.
> > > >> Checked by AVG -
> > [5][22]www.avg.com
> > > >> Version: 9.0.862 / Virus
> > Database: 271.1.1/3203 - Release Date:
> > > >> 10/17/10 11:33:00
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1.
>
[23]http://mignarda.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/sound-check-is-it-loud-eno
ugh/
> > 2. [24]http://www.mignarda.com/
> > 3. [25]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > 4. [26]http://www.avg.com/
> > 5. [27]http://www.avg.com/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [28]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com
2. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
3. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
6. http://www.christopherwilke.com/
7. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
8. mailto:lauten...@lautenist.de
9. mailto:magg...@sonic.net
10. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
11. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com
12. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
13. mailto:magg...@sonic.net
14. mailto:magg...@sonic.net
15. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
16. mailto:nedma...@aol.com
17. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
18. http://mignarda.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/sound-check-is-it-loud-enou
19. http://www.mignarda.com/
20. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
21. http://www.avg.com/
22. http://www.avg.com/
23. http://mignarda.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/sound-check-is-it-loud-enough/
24. http://www.mignarda.com/
25. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
26. http://www.avg.com/
27. http://www.avg.com/
28. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
