Dear Daniel and All
There is a fundamental difference between the first and the
second generation loaded guts. The first were loaded on a single high
twist core, and the second were loaded on Venice twine.
The flexibility of the Venice twine gives better harmonicity, but by
its very flexibility needs to be treated with care, in setting up, and
in RH technique.
$
Furthermore, Mimmo made a third "improvement"; while in the first
loaded Venice-type, the cores became progressively much thicker, say
from 6th through to the 11th, in the more recent ones, the core remains
almost the same, but the loading increases.
So imagine a fairly thin Venice core loaded with copper, it is going to
act more like a pendulum than a spring, there is very little core to
pull the string back once you have given it its impulse (ultra low
impedance). This gives a better sound, but calls for more care when
setting a lute up, and when striking the string.
When ordering Venice twine (which is very stretchy), Mimmo advizes to
multiply the value you require by 1.07. The same must be done for a
loaded string, as it has the same stretchy quality.
That is what gives its harmonicity, or its fantastic singing quality.
In fact, the loaded string, perhaps because of its thin core, is even
more stretchy, and so possibly, multiply by 1.07, and then take the
next value up.
$
The result of the stretchiness is an ultra low impedance string,
similar in some ways to an ultra low tension HT string. It may be
necessary to strike it slightly closer to the bridge, to find the point
of best impedance.
Do not consider loaded strings if you are hoping to go for low tension
stringing. The only reason to do that is if the strings are high
impedance HT strings. Loaded strings are already ultra low impedance!
$
Expect to wait at least a month for the string to come up to its final
tension, and to to gain slightly in the high harmonic area. It will
progress for at least 6 months.
$
Consider using a higher tension Meane octave for basses 7c down. This
gives even better harmonic behaviour, and helps reduce the risk of
buzzing.
$
When I used a loaded string on my 7c Renaissance lute, instead of a
thick Pistoy, I did get buzzing, otherwise I far preferred the sound.
To solve this problem I raised the string slightly by slipping a small
piece of tube ticket under it, and I also raised it at the bridge, just
by twisting it. There was still the occasional buzz, but much reduced.
I think that if you order a loaded string for a new lute, the lute
maker will probabluy set it slightly higher than he would for a thick
Pistoy.
$
When I ordered my 11c lute from Stephen Gottlieb, he set the lute up
for the loaded strings, but unfortunately, he did not do the necessary
calculation when ordering them, and so instead of the 3Kg he announced
they were more like 2K9. The octaves were at 2K7 (total 5.6Kg). He also
strung it at 415Hz, but I wanted 392Hz.
$
At 415Hz they only buzzed occasionally while they were new; but when I
lowered the diapson as much as I could, down to 407Hz, then they did
begin to buzz, but at near 2K75, probably clashing with the octaves
(that were now at around 2K5) and also possibly against the frets.
$
I solved this largely, by changing to Venice Octaves of a higher
tension, say around 3K3.
I don't know whether it was the combined tension, as I now had around
6Kg, and so more global resistance, or whether it was because the
Venice octave is of the same material as the bass and so has the same
resonance pattern.
Nevertheless, I would strongly advise using higher tension Venice
Octaves with loaded basses.
$
Having done this successfully with my Baroque lute, I also put higher
tension Venice octaves on my Renaissance lute, and noticed an instant
improvement.
$
When choosing a loaded string, probably you should go for 3Kg or
above, but I prefer 2K9 on the basses and 3K3 or even 3K5 on the Venice
octaves.
This gives a very pleasant sensation: the loaded string gives way, and
the Venice catches you. The Venice becomes the leading string, giving a
superb Meanes edge to the bass sound.
The fact that these strings, move like a pendulum gives them a superb
singing quality.
You don't get that with a tress, like a Pistoy.
$
The other day, I had four loaded Baroque lutes in my flat: two Stephen
Gottlieb 11c lutes, and two Martin Haycocks (one 13c the other 11c).
$
The sound of these basses on all four lutes was quite amazing! Yes it
does call for care when setting them up, and perhaps you should err in
the direction of higher tension. Two of those lutes had basses at 4Kg!
Personally, I feel that is overkill, and if one uses high tension
Octaves, probably unnecessary.
S:
At present, as said elsewhere, I am finally going to lower the diapason
of my 11c lute to 392, by shifting the basses up one. Thus I will
actually have the 2K9 I want, and my octaves will be at 3K5. I feel
fairly sure that will be an excellent compromise, but I will report on
this.
Regards
Anthony
PS The fact that the present loaded Venices more or less keep the same
core, while stepping up the loading as you move from 6C to 11c, makes
them similar to the basses of a 12C lute, except that in the 12c lute,
while the diameter remains stable, the length increases by steps.
---- Message d'origine ----
>De : "Daniel Winheld" <dwinh...@comcast.net>
>A : Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>Objet : [LUTE] Re: loaded guts
>Date : 06/12/2010 00:06:38 CET
>
>My only experience is with his first generation loadeds from some
> years ago. I still have one in use as the 7th course fundamental on
> my Chambure copy (yes, a 7 course vihuela) and it's absolutely fine.
> I got one (!) pair of matching loadeds for the unison 6th that were
> enough in tune with each other up the 5th fret and almost tolerable
> to the 7th, but in the end slight falseness- in relation to each
> other- and the buzzing caused me to drop them. In my case, unisons
> could be expected to buzz pretty easily. The 7th course w/octave
> string is no problem. For the 6 and 5, I am finding Dan Larson's
> pistoys to be entirely satisfactory. Also for the 7th course
> fundamental at F on my new Larson 8 course- but I miss the clarity of
> the loaded gut which his Pistoys do not quite equal yet for a low D-
> I may rob the vihuela of that remaining loaded gut for the 8th on the
> lute, as I am playing it a lot more than my other instruments.
>
> I am surprised that you can make loaded gut work as high as the 5th
> course; I found them to be too bright, and impossible to get unisons
> that were in tune with each other. But so far nothing beats them for
> diapasons on single pegbox lutes of 9 to 13 courses.
>
> Didn't notice any tension requirements different from my other
> strings; and I string light- almost as light as Toyohiko, but not
> quite. Are you using his new generation loadeds, or still using old
> survivors?
>
> Dan
>
>
> >A question for experiences of other users of loaded guts from
Aquila.
> >I've used them on courses five, six and seven of a 61cm lute at 30
to
> >33N (around 3kg, if you prefer).
> >I love the sound: gutsy yet with a bite without being metallic. But
> >they buzz. I tend to have a heavy thumb, so I first blamed myself.
> >Soon I discovered it was not my thumb but string buzz against frets
> >because these strings are so flexible. Before the latest concert on
> >this instrument I decided to change all the frets to get rid of the
> >buzzing (steeper incline from highest to lowest fret, whatever to
get
> >rid of the buzzing). But with only the first fret (thick one!) in
> >place I discovered the strings buzz high up on the fingerboard even
> >without other frets, so no scheme of fretting would have helped.
> >I have a similar problem with a loaded gut string on my theorbo
> >(single string six). But here an extreme fretting scheme seems to
keep
> >the buzzing mostly under control.
> >
> >I get the impression Mimmo prefers to see his strings used under a
> >higher tension and I get the impression these strings are better
> >suited as non-fretted strings (B-lute 7 and down or the short
> >extension of attiorbatos), which would both reduce the risks of
> >buzzing.
> >But still, these are nice strings to use on the fingerboard. Any
> >people with (dis)similar experiences? Any comments welcome.
> >
> >David - like dt's expression TFZ but regrets to say Mille Regrets is
> >supposedly not written by Josquin, likes Karamazov's Bosnian fado
but
> >gets an occasional admonition to get rid of his own tics and facial
> >expressions yet also has fans who enjoy these facial expressions
face
> >during concerts and other people who approach him after concerts
only
> >to tell how fascinating his eyebrows were and who never mention the
> >music he played - still, it makes a living
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
