Those are cool examples!
For sure down in the dumps etc has an emotion connotation, but I think
it is a musical term. It just didn't get into the textbooks as a
musical term.
So for example, a "ground" or a "round" can have any number of
connotations, but they are also musical forms.
Maybe round was early on connected with a circle dance, of course. And
"piano" just means "low". like ground, or dump.
Poets often use accent as a pun for the musical ornament, but in
context it is still an ornament.
Maybe I am missing something, but I don't see any linguistic
difference between a ground and an dump, except that dump has fallen
out of use for obvious reasons. So we say ground.
When Dowland set "The ground shall sorrow be" over a modified
romanesca, thank heavens he didn't set "dump" over a three note bass
ostinato.
__________________________________________________________________
From: Denys Stephens <denyssteph...@sky.com>
To: lute net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Mon, February 13, 2012 2:36:59 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dumps and Downes
Dear All,
The words of the song 'Where griping grief...' from
'Romeo & Juliet' are quite helpful:
'Where griping griefs the heart would wound
And doleful dumps the mind oppress,
There music with her silver sound
Is wont with speed to send redress.
Of troubled mind for every sore,
Sweet music hath a salve therefore.'
It seems to be important that the words 'doleful' and 'dump'
are used together here, as whilst it's reasonably clear that
the word 'dump' is associated with a mood or feeling, the door
is left open to dumps other than those which are doleful.
I remember Tony Rooley pointing out years ago that there are
both 'merry' and 'doleful' dumps referred to in Elizabethan
literature. That explains why more light hearted pieces like
John Johnson's 'the Queen's treble' (referred to as a dump in
Dd.3.18) can be categorised as a 'merry dump.' The overwhelming
implication is that dumps can express a variety of feelings.
It's a highly appropriate thing for music to do.
It is perhaps indicative of the Elizabethan penchant for
melancholia that the doleful dumps get more of the limelight.
Best wishes,
Denys
-----Original Message-----
From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of David Tayler
Sent: 13 February 2012 06:55
To: lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dumps and Downes
Well, we may never know, but it probably is like "ground"
d
__________________________________________________________________
From: Sean Smith <[3]lutesm...@mac.com>
To: lute <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Sun, February 12, 2012 9:51:49 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dumps and Downes
The dumpes question seems to have settled down again but I have to
wonder, could they simply be a lullabies? The repetitive, hypnotic
character is like no other kind of composition and they never really
get what you could call exciting. I'm thinking of the earlier ones
pivoting on C and Bb; not the bergamask variations. (They may have
gotten the lumped in with dumps due to their seemingly endless
strains
and may even be as hypnotic but they don't have that "Gooo tooo
sleeeep" feel.) I just looked at the two Goodnights in Dd 2.11 and
they
are both just beautiful and boring --a great trick to pull off and if
done at their best you should never hear any applause!
That many appear by J. Johnson in service to the queen suggests they
had a use perhaps in the same sense as dances for dancing and songs
for
engaging poetry.
Just my cent and a half.
Sean
On Feb 9, 2012, at 3:44 PM, Leonard Williams wrote:
Bernd sent me the following (I don't think it got to the whole list):
------ Forwarded Message
From: "Bernd Haegemann" <[1][5]b...@symbol4.de>
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:38:51 +0100
To: "Leonard Williams" <[2][6]arc...@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Dumps and Downes
I have only 2 dumps and thought them to be quite humpty-dumpty, but
read
this:
**
Dump.
A type of instrumental piece occurring in English sources between
about
1540
and 1640. Some
20 examples are known, more than half of them for lute and most of
the
remainder for
keyboard. The word is of uncertain derivation. In the 16th century it
denoted mental
perplexity or a state of melancholy. The musical dump was variously
described as 'solemn and
still', 'deploring' and 'doleful'; there is some evidence to suggest
that it
was the English
equivalent of the French deploration or tombeau, a piece composed in
memory
of a recently
deceased person.
16 dumps are listed in Ward (1951): all are anonymous except for two
by
John
Johnson. A few
more are included in the catalogue in Lumsden, among them a
relatively
ambitious work in the
Marsh Lutebook (IRL-Dm Z.3.2.13) labelled 'Dump philli' (ed. in Ward,
1992,
ii, no.4; the
piece is unlikely to be by either Philip van Wilder or Peter Philips
as
was
formerly
thought). The earliest known dump, My Lady Careys Dompe (in GB-Lbl
Roy.App.58; MB, lxvi,
1995, no.37), is familiar as an early example of idiomatic keyboard
writing.
It is written
over an ostinato bass, a simple alternation of tonic and dominant
(TTDD).
Most other dumps
share this type of construction, using similar bass patterns (DTDT,
TTDT) or
standard
grounds such as the bergamasca, passamezzo antico and romanesca. Some
later
examples have
different formal schemes, such as The Irishe Dumpe in the Fitzwilliam
Virginal Book (ed.
J.A. Fuller Maitland and W.B. Squire, Leipzig, 1899/R, rev. 2/1979-80
by B.
Winogron,
no.179), which is a simply harmonized melody of three strains. An
isolated
late example is
An Irish Dump, an instrumental tune printed in Smollet Holden's A
Collection
of Old
Established Irish Slow and Quick Tunes (Dublin, c1807) and reproduced
in
Grove5; Beethoven
arranged it for voice and piano trio, to words by Joanna Baillie, in
his
collection of 25
Irish songs woo152 no.8 (London and Edinburgh, 1814).
Bibliography
J.M. Ward: 'The "Dolfull Domps"', JAMS, iv (1951), 111-21
D. Lumsden: The Sources of English Lute Music, 1540-1620 (diss., U.
of
Cambridge, 1955)
J. Caldwell: English Keyboard Music Before the Nineteenth Century
(Oxford,
1973)
J.(M.) Ward: Commentary to The Dublin Virginal Manuscript (London,
1983)
J.M. Ward: Music for Elizabethan Lutes (Oxford, 1992)
Alan Brown
***
best wishes
Bernd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Williams" <[3][7]arc...@verizon.net>
To: "Bernd Haegemann" <[4][8]b...@symbol4.de>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Dumps and Downes
> Bernd--
> Nothing from Grove's--or else I didn't notice the citation.
>
> Leonard
>
> On 2/8/12 3:43 PM, "Bernd Haegemann" <[5][9]b...@symbol4.de> wrote:
>
>> Dear Leonard,
>>
>> I suppose someone sent you the article from Grove's dictionary?
>>
>> best wishes
>> Bernd
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Leonard Williams" <[6][10]arc...@verizon.net>
>> To: "Lute List" <[7][11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 1:49 AM
>> Subject: [LUTE] Dumps and Downes
>>
>>
>>> What can the collective wisdom share about a style of
composition
>>> called down(e) or dump? I have four of these: two from Holmes
(ff.
12, 94)
>>> and two from Marsh (ff. 124, 426). Questions: Are they
basically
divisions
>>> on a ground? Does one follow a strict rhythm with them?
>>> I enjoy playing (in some cases simply attempting) these.
Are
there
>>> others, perhaps by different names/titles?
>>>
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>> Leonard Williams
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> [8][12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
------ End of Forwarded Message
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