The Working Index, that is the product between the frequency of the strings and the vibrating string lenght in mt, can predict when a string start to be 'not good enought'. I am considering here the case of a plain gut string, not the denser versions (wound, loaded, gimped etc etc).
Now, generally speacking, we know that, more or less, the 6th course of a renaissance lute can be considered the limit for the sound quality and the octave is indispensable (and what about the Vihuela? Well in my opinion it had octaves on the 5 and 6 courses because the bass strings were those in use on Lutes). The Working Index of the 6th course is around 59 Hz/mt. So, if the last bass string of the extended neck exceed the value of 59 Hz/mt of Working Index an octave is necessary like (same working index of the 6th course) . At the modern 'baroque' pitch of 415 the last bass note is a GG of 46.25 Hz so: 59/46.25= 1.27 mt In practice we can say that, generally speacking (generally speacking, ok?) when the extended neck start to be less than 1.20-1.30 mt and one uses plain gut start to be necessary the use of octaves. Of course, it is question of taste: some find that a dull sound is still welcome, other hate that. If one switch to roped catline gut strings the extended neck can be even a bit shorter than that. What it is important here is not to have a black or white vision, we are indeed in a sort of grey area were to define if a sound is good or bad is matter of taste, which kind of strings and if the proportion of the lutei s the right one (the 1st string is working close to the breakage or not?) . I have considered a pactical 'rule of thumb' having seen that the 6th course had octaves while the 5th is still matter of taste. Mimmo -----Messaggio originale----- Da: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Per conto di sterling price Inviato: lunedì 11 dicembre 2017 22:27 A: Martin Shepherd <mar...@luteshop.co.uk>; Magnus Andersson <magnusl...@gmail.com>; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: A stringing question for Sellas E. 545 Question--what is the longest a neck extension can be and still be able to have octave strings? I'm making a pegbox for a baroque lute based on the 14 course Hoffman pegbox--the original is 115.7cm and I might make it a bit longer. I wont bore you with the reason I want it longer--but probably 120cm will do it. Thanks, Sterling __________________________________________________________________ From: Martin Shepherd <mar...@luteshop.co.uk> To: Magnus Andersson <magnusl...@gmail.com>; "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 11:32 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: A stringing question for Sellas E. 545 Dear Magnus and All, A few thoughts: I only recently realised that this instrument existed and immediately found it puzzling. Matthew's conjecture that the neck has been shortened removes some, but not all, of the puzzle. In terms of the string length for the petit jeu of c.90cm, I have recent experience that (with double strings, as was normal on Italian instruments) there begins to be a problem of getting a thin enough string for the 3rd course. I wonder if that tells us something about the pitch (nominal or absolute) at which these instruments might have been played (I mean theorboes of 90+ cm as opposed to 80+cm). If the neck of E545 has been shortened, perhaps that was the point at which the basses were made double. Can anyone enlighten us as to whether the bridge is original or has been redrilled? The fact that there are only 6 courses on the petit jeu is entirely consistent with all known Italian theorboes (and what little is known from iconography about French ones, which in this case are surely irrelevant anyway). There is no reason to hypothesise an original state in which there were more than 6 courses. If the neck has been shortened, one might guess an original length for the grand jeu of 160-170cm, based on the proportions of extant theorboes. It's hard to imagine double-strung bass courses of this length - it's hard enough to imagine at 130cm - so my initial puzzle remains. Whatever kind of stringing one imagines (even single throughout) there is always going to be a big transition from the lowest of the petit jeu strings to the first of the long basses - that's just the nature of the beast. Best wishes, Martin On 11/12/2017 17:23, Magnus Andersson wrote: > Dear collective wisdom, > I wonder if you might be able to help me with finding > proper strings for a theorbo I ´ve commissioned. > The instrument is a theorbo by Sellas, 1640, > today housed in Paris with the label E. 545. > [1][1]http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/016179 9 > It ´s quite a spectacular instrument with > six double strings on the fretboard, at 890 mm, > and then 8 double strings for the diapasons, at 1300 mm. > It was probably shortened sometime from its original length > into this present condition. > The problem that arises is when one wants to string the upper courses > of the diapasons. Here one needs very thin strings beginning with > 0.40-0.42 > for the high string of the 7th course Gg, at the string length of ca. > 1500 mm... > Any ideas would be highly appreciated. > Best wishes, > Magnus Andersson > > -- > > References > > 1. [2]http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/0161799 > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. [4]https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- References 1. http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/0161799 2. http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/0161799 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
