Sorry, I trusted the number Sarge put on his edition. So it's not from 1520 after all? No problem. That's even more interesting, because this means that Hans Judenkünig's Spanish Dance in his 1523 book is earlier than any of the actual Spanish sources.
It's similar to the dance in Simancas. Like Hans Newsidler had the earliest Passamezzo though it's an Italian dance... On 23.03.20 19:35, Antonio Corona wrote: We should be careful not to put forward our thoughts as facts. Try Narváez (1538), it even predates the French guitar versions, not to mention the later English lute versions (and it is not a recommendation). Cheers Antonio On Monday, 23 March 2020, 04:46:37 GMT-6, Tristan von Neumann [1]<tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote: I thought this was the oldest known vihuela tablature? Feel free to recommend an earlier version! I'm interested. On 23.03.20 11:26, Antonio Corona wrote: > � � How can you be so certain that this is the earliest example of the > � � Conde Claros? > � � Best regards to everybody, > � � Antonio > > � � On Sunday, 22 March 2020, 14:25:51 GMT-6, Tristan von Neumann > � � <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote: > � � For some Condes Claros beginner fun, check out this duet (you can > � � record > � � the second part and play to it). > � � It's also the earliest example. > � � [1][3]http://gerbode.net/sources/E-SIM_simancas_archivo_general/leg_394 _si > � � mancas_vihuela_ms_1520/pdf/3_contrapunto_sobre_conde_claros.pdf > � � The best beginner's book (I learned to play with it) is certainly the > � � one by Hans Newsidler: > � � [2][4]http://gerbode.net/sources/HNewsidler/1536_1/pdf/ > � � [3][5]http://gerbode.net/sources/HNewsidler/1536_2/pdf/ > � � The great thing is that Newsidler carefully progresses, introducing > � � just > � � one new aspect per piece. > � � Also the first couple of pieces have only two voices, the third can > � � optionally be sung (it's popular tunes everyone knew back then). > � � Other books like Robinson's School of Music seem too difficult and > � � unorganized for the beginner. > � � Though Robinson is nice and the introduction helpful, it fails to > � � create > � � a learning curve. > � � On 22.03.20 20:44, Sean Smith wrote: > � � > � � You're right. It is long and involved and certainly has its > � � difficult > � � > � � bits. > � � > � � It might be a project for someone with time on their hands to > � � select > � � > � � bits for easier sections to play. It has its parallels with Conde > � � > � � Claros which went through many personal edits at the time so it > � � would > � � > � � hardly be anachronistic to edit it to one's specs. I would like to > � � > � � think that there's something in there for everybody. > � � > � � Sean > � � > > � � > � � On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 3:04 AM Jurgen Frenz > � � > � � <[1][4][6]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: > � � > > � � > � � � if it is for easy pieces to play or re-work basic technique I > � � found > � � > � � � Lynda Says quarterly advice quite useful and the higher numbers > � � are > � � > � � � not so easy either: > � � > � � � [2][5][7]https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/beginners > � � > � � � Further there's a list of tentative "grades" of difficulty of > � � lute > � � > � � � pieces, not everybody feels the same as we all have different > � � > � � � difficulties but nice to go through > � � > � � � [3][6][8]https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/towards-lute-grades > � � > � � � Best wishes > � � > � � � JÃÆÃâ ÃÆ Ã ï¿½rgen > � � > � � � ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ Original Message ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ÃÆ Ã ï¿½ > � � > � � � On Sunday, March 22, 2020 5:23 AM, Sean Smith > � � > � � � <[4][7][9]lutesm...@gmail.com> wrote: > � � > � � � > Both faves and we're lucky to have them. > � � > � � � > I know you like finding hidden things, Tristan. Go to the > � � really > � � > � � � long > � � > � � � > [Dump] on f280 in the Marsh. There's a measure missing between > � � 114 > � � > � � � and > � � > � � � > 115. Put in something you like or steal/adapt a measure from > � � > � � � elsewhere. > � � > � � � > Now here's the fun part, record it carefully, then play it > � � against > � � > � � � the > � � > � � � > recording with a lag of 4 measures. It's not perfect but it > � � works > � � > � � � kind > � � > � � � > of nicely. It will certainly keep you occupied for an > � � afternoon or > � � > � � � two. > � � > � � � > ...and it's excellent metronome practice regardless. > � � > � � � > Whether it was meant that way is hard to say and, depending on > � � > � � � whom you > � � > � � � > talk to, even suggesting it is probably irresponsible with a > � � touch > � � > � � � of > � � > � � � > 'shame on you!'. There's certainly no indication. It also > � � starts a > � � > � � � > little abruptly so you might add a few C and G iterations on > � � the > � � > � � � front > � � > � � � > end. > � � > � � � > Sean > � � > � � � > > � � > � � � > On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 8:13 PM Tristan von Neumann > � � > � � � > <[1][5][8][10]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote: > � � > � � � > > � � > � � � > Many of you might have more time on their hands than usual. > � � > � � � > So here's a list of favorite books and manuscripts to play. > � � > � � � > * Marsh Lute Book. Fun for weeks. > � � > � � � > > � � > > � � [2][6][9][11]http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_librar y/ms > � � > � � � .z. > � � > � � � > 3.2.13_marsh_lute_book/pdf/ > � � > � � � > * Siena Ms. - it never fails to surprise > � � > � � � > > � � > > � � [3][7][10][12]http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hag e/MS > � � _ > � � > � � � 28. > � � > � � � > B.39_siena_lute_book_1590/pdf/ > � � > � � � > * If you want to concentrate on one piece: this one will keep > � � you > � � > � � � > busy > � � > � � � > for a long time. > � � > � � � > > � � > > � � [4][8][11][13]http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fanta sia_ > � � 0 > � � > � � � 1.p > � � > � � � > df > � � > � � � > * he learned from the best: This book by Paladin is extremely > � � > � � � > charming > � � > � � � > and not too difficult > � � > � � � > [5][9][12][14]http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ > � � > � � � > * in times like these... > � � > � � � > > � � > > � � [6][10][13][15]http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas _154 > � � 7 > � � > � � � /v2/ > � � > � � � > pdf/040_corona_de_mas_hermosas.pdf > � � > � � � > [7][11]gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf > � � > � � � > Let's hope the best for us all. > � � > � � � > Enjoy life. > � � > � � � > To get on or off this list see list information at > � � > � � � > > � � [8][12][14][16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > � � > � � � > > � � > � � � > > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > > � � -------------------------------------------------------------------- > � � > � � � ---------------------- > � � > � � � > > � � > � � � > References > � � > � � � > > � � > � � � > 1. � mailto:[13][15][17]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de > � � > � � � > 2. > � � > > � � [14][16][18]http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library /ms. > � � z > � � > � � � .3.2.13_marsh_lute_book/pdf/ > � � > � � � > 3. > � � > > � � [15][17][19]http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/ MS_2 > � � 8 > � � > � � � .B.39_siena_lute_book_1590/pdf/ > � � > � � � > 4. > � � > > � � [16][20]http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_01 . > � � > � � � pdf > � � > � � � > 5. > � � [17][18][21]http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ > � � > � � � > 6. > � � > > � � [18][19][22]http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_15 47/v > � � 2 > � � > � � � /pdf/040_corona_de_mas_hermosas.pdf > � � > � � � > 7. > � � > > � � [19][20][23]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pd f > � � > � � � > 8. > � � [20][21][24]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > � � > > � � > � � -- > � � > > � � > References > � � > > � � > � � 1. mailto:[22][25]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com > � � > � � 2. [23][26]https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/beginners > � � > � � 3. [24][27]https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/towards-lute-grades > � � > � � 4. mailto:[25][28]lutesm...@gmail.com > � � > � � 5. mailto:[26][29]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de > � � > � � 6. > � � [27][30]http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms. z > � � > � � 7. > � � [28][31]http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_2 8 > � � > � � 8. > � � [29][32]http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_01 .p > � � > � � 9. [30][33]http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ > � � > � � 10. > � � [31][34]http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547/v 2/ > � � > � � 11. > � � [32][35]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf > � � > � � 12. [33][36]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > � � > � � 13. mailto:[34][37]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de > � � > � � 14. > � � [35][38]http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms. z.3. > � � 2.13_marsh_lute_book/pdf/ > � � > � � 15. > � � [36][39]http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_2 8.B. > � � 39_siena_lute_book_1590/pdf/ > � � > � � 16. > � � [37][40]http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_01 .pdf > � � > � � 17. [38][41]http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ > � � > � � 18. > � � [39][42]http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547/v 2/pd > � � f/040_corona_de_mas_hermosas.pdf > � � > � � 19. > � � [40][43]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf > � � > � � 20. [41][44]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > � � > > > � � -- > > References > > � � 1. [45]http://gerbode.net/sources/E-SIM_simancas_archivo_general/leg_394_s imancas_vihuela_ms_1520/pdf/3_contrapunto_sobre_conde_claros.pdf > � � 2. [46]http://gerbode.net/sources/HNewsidler/1536_1/pdf/ > � � 3. [47]http://gerbode.net/sources/HNewsidler/1536_2/pdf/ > � � 4. mailto:[48]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com > � � 5. [49]https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/beginners > � � 6. [50]https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/towards-lute-grades > � � 7. mailto:[51]lutesm...@gmail.com > � � 8. mailto:[52]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de > � � 9. [53]http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms > � � 10. [54]http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_ > � � 11. [55]http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_0 > � � 12. [56]http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ > � � 13. [57]http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547 > � � 14. [58]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > � � 15. mailto:[59]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de > � � 16. [60]http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms.z > � � 17. [61]http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_28 > � � 18. [62]http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ > � � 19. [63]http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547/v2 > � � 20. [64]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf > � � 21. [65]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > � � 22. mailto:[66]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com > � � 23. [67]https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/beginners > � � 24. [68]https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/towards-lute-grades > � � 25. mailto:[69]lutesm...@gmail.com > � � 26. mailto:[70]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de > � � 27. [71]http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms.z > � � 28. [72]http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_28 > � � 29. [73]http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_01.p > � � 30. [74]http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ > � � 31. [75]http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547/v2/ > � � 32. [76]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf > � � 33. [77]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > � � 34. mailto:[78]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de > � � 35. [79]http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms.z.3. 2.13_marsh_lute_book/pdf/ > � � 36. [80]http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_28.B. 39_siena_lute_book_1590/pdf/ > � � 37. [81]http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_01.pdf > � � 38. [82]http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ > � � 39. [83]http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547/v2/pd f/040_corona_de_mas_hermosas.pdf > � � 40. [84]http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf > � � 41. [85]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 2. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 3. http://gerbode.net/sources/E-SIM_simancas_archivo_general/leg_394_si 4. http://gerbode.net/sources/HNewsidler/1536_1/pdf/ 5. http://gerbode.net/sources/HNewsidler/1536_2/pdf/ 6. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 7. https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/beginners 8. https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/towards-lute-grades 9. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 10. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 11. http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms 12. http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS 13. http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_ 14. http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ 15. http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_154 16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 17. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 18. http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms 19. http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_2 20. http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_01 21. http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ 22. http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547/v 23. http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf 24. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 25. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 26. https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/beginners 27. https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/towards-lute-grades 28. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 29. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 30. http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms.z 31. http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_28 32. http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_01.p 33. http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ 34. 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https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/beginners 50. https://www.lutesociety.org/pages/towards-lute-grades 51. mailto:lutesm...@gmail.com 52. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 53. http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms 54. http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_ 55. http://gerbode.net/sources/Rippe/book_1_1552/pdf/01_fantasia_0 56. http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ 57. http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547 58. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 59. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 60. http://gerbode.net/sources/IRL-Dm_archbishop_marshs_library/ms.z 61. http://gerbode.net/sources/NL-DHgm_gemeentemuseum_den_hage/MS_28 62. http://gerbode.net/sources/Paladin/Paladin_1560/pdf/ 63. http://gerbode.net/sources/Valderrabano_silva_de_sirenas_1547/v2 64. http://gerbode.net/composers/Anon/pdf/anon_the_sick_tune.pdf 65. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 66. 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