Am 28.06.2012 11:23, schrieb Vincent van Ravesteijn:
If I remember your only remaining complain was that I set MiKTeX to install
missing packages
silently. I several times explained in detail why this is necessary. I accept
that you are an
expert in many fields but the average user is not. We cannot bother average
users with dialogs
where he has to made about 50 times a decision.
Who is speaking about 50 decisions ? All I asked for was an option to surpass
this step.
But then you don't get a full functional LyX. We cannot surpass the package installations, see me
last 2 mails.
Even if we add an option "Surpass the LaTeX package installation" what do you expect a new user who
has never worked with LaTeX nor know what LaTeX is will do?
I find it
more distracting that I get a messagebox forcing me to choose whether I want to
update MikTeX or not
(and after that updating MikTeX failed).
The problem is that the MiKTeX installer is only released each 6 month or so, but as the aim is to
get a full functional LyX, the user should be able to benefit from the latest package updates.
Especially users who already use LyX normally don't update MiKTeX by themselves and thus suffer from
bugs in packages that are already fixed. When had several cases in this regards. Take for example
one of the bugs in hyperref or caption that made documents uncompilable.
However, in this case it is not important what the users decides. If he choose to update, fine, if
not, it doesn't harm in terms of LyX's feature completeness.
The installer is the first thing a new user sees and he cannot know anything at
this state. I
don't get why you will not accept that the average user doesn't know what a
package is and that he
also don't need to know.
(You know that you can any time later rest the settings you prefer.)
I did never say I do not accept this, because the current installer has the
same behaviour.
So what is the point why you don't want to accept it?
In my opinion the installer is ready and now also stable to become the official
one. So let's do
it now.
I think it is not ready yet.
Can you please be more precise. What exactly is missing?
Btw. I have added some new files and would add them t the dependency package. I
want upload the
new one to our FTP server but don't know who can put it then to the correct
location.
The dependency package is on sourceforge, not on our FTP.
Who runs it, to whom can I sent the updated package?
I believe you're writing ImageMagick entries in the registry yourself. Why ?
When installing IM, it writes registry values to HKLM. IM needs registry values
to determine where
to find its modules. Now it is possible to use also HKCU and so it can be used
also when not
installed with admin privileges.
You can repeat over and over again that IM needs registry values, but that
doesn't help me.
According to the website of ImageMagick: "Portable Win32 static at 16
bits-per-pixel. Just copy to
your host and run (no installer, no Windows registry entries)."
This clearly tells me you're wrong that IM needs registry values in either HKLM
or HKCU.
I also read this and tested this several times. It never worked correct for all cases, especially
not for delegates likes SVG or PDF images. But as it is now fixed in IM this is no longer an issue.
The new installer currently still writes things to the registry, but this is more a safety thing as
I don't know if a certain delegate would still fail without them. However, these settings don't harm
and if you would have installed IM using its own installer, you would get them too.
The reason why I don't accept this installer now is that:
- the installer installs LyX in a folder called: LyX 2.0.4 instead of LyX20 as
the current official
installer does. I really don't see a single reason to change this behaviour;
There is also no reason not to change the name of the folder. I already also explained that we can
easily change the name to somewhat else but need the info about the bugfix release. If is perfectly
valid to install LyX 2.0.4 and leave 2.0.3 as backup and some users do this (e.g. if they write a
large document like a thesis).
So when can change it from "LyX 2.0.4" to "LyX204" if you don't like the dots. "LyX20" is not
sufficient.
(I also explained this several times.)
- this means that you have to manually uninstall the previous version each time;
> - this also means that you have to manually uninstall the previous version
_before_ installing
> the new version;
No. If this is necessary for you, you find a bug in the installer. It must be allowed to install LyX
2.0.4 to a system where already LyX 2.0.3 exists.
- you forced this upon the user by disallowing to install LyX when a version of
LyX is already
installed;
This was not planned and is not the case on my 2 test PCs. But I will have
another look.
- this prevents the user from installing a new version even if it does not have
rights to uninstall
the previous one;
I don't understand. If LyX was once installed with admin privileges, and now installs it without
them, he will get troubles (python, IM, Ghostscript...). Windows has for good reasons a clear policy
that things should be installed as admin, and that this account is meant for such purposes. You can
also install without admin, but then need to do this consistently. The install will not have a
change to remove/change things installed once as admin when you are not admin too.
- this does not work with installations made by the current official installer;
What does not work?
- you still insist on installing the LyX shortcut in a subfolder in the start
menu. Your reply that
this was much easier if you want to manually reorder the start menu, but this
is totally non-sense;
This is not nonsense. On my Win XP PC I have about 120 programs installed. You would get crazy if
you cannot sort them. Only one program (Inkscape) does not store the link in a subfolder.
But anyway, why is such a nitpick that important for you?
- you fiercely protest against an option to not install all exotic MikTeX
packages, but you do think
it is ok to prompt a message box to the user forcing him to choose whether to
update MikTeX.
Yes, and this is the only thing where I will fight for also in future, see above and my previous 2
mails why this is absolutely important. We need to provide a fully functional LyX and cannot know
for what user a package is required and for what user some packages can be skipped and which packages.
regards Uwe
