On 2016-10-21, Enrico Forestieri wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 07:05:29PM +0000, Guenter Milde wrote:
>> On 2016-10-21, Enrico Forestieri wrote:
>> > I think that the old "None (no fontenc)" was more than adequate.
>> > This tells that *LyX* is not going to select any encoding.
>> However, it was inconsistent. The same font dialog uses [Default] when
>> LyX is not going to select any font. Also the internal name is
>> "default".
> It is because the default encoding has been T1 since ever. I also think
> that it is unfortunate that selecting everything to be default, instead
> one finds that lyx is not producing a pristine latex file such as
> \documentclass{article}
> \begin{document}
> \end{document}
> but this is historical. Each program has his quirks, and this one has
> been there since the beginning.
Until 2008, "default" meant unequivocally "pristine latex".
LyX provided only a LyX-wide setting
Tools>Preferences>Output>LaTeX>Use_LaTeX_font_encoding. Allowed values
were a comma-separted list of font encodings or the special value
"default" for "don't load fontenc".
Confusion started, when per-document fontenc setting was added in
[df329341a/lyxgit] to fix bug #5730. As the LyX-wide setting was kept, we
ended up with two defaults: the LyX-wide setting and the LaTeX (or
documentclass) default.
Unfortunatly, the GUI name "Default" was chosen for the LyX-wide default.
Since then, selecting "Default" in the font encoding GUI inserts
additional code and usually leads to a font encoding differing from the
document class default.
> This is something that one gets accustomed to. Expert users know how to
> deal with it,
Even experts and developers get this wrong:
E.g. Ticket #7334 "bitmapped fonts are still default" was closed as "wontfix"
with the comment
we have the policy to not alter the class defaults (by default).
However, the problem is actually caused by the font encoding deviating from
the class default. Sticking to the policy would have solved it (but
created others).
> while novices don't mind and only want something that
> works and looks good.
Documents with LyX's default settings still use bitmap fonts and don't
look good (unless you installed CM-Super).
...
> Given what said above, having "LyX Default" instead of simply
> "Default" may be Ok (to differentiate from a consistency point of
> view), but another default (Class default) without any classification
> can be confusing.
> So, it would be better to add "(no fontenc)", but then I still think
> that "None (no fontenc)" is better and doesn't need to be deciphered
> because it has always been like that.
I prefer keeping "Default" in both GUI names, because the first ensures
compatiblity with the current naming and the second with the "Default"s
in the lines below. In a complex situation, confused is better than
misled.
> Hence, old users know what it means,
My experience is that many old users got it wrong all the time...
> while new users will learn its meaning. For them, having "Class
> default" is not any clear and more confusing, IMHO.
This was Jürgens choice, my preference is "LaTeX Default" with a tooltip:
Use the documentclass' default encoding, don't load the fontspec package
Jürgen pointed out, that "no fontenc" may be misleading, as fontenc
could be loaded by a package or the document class. I could live with
"LaTeX Default (no fontenc)" as a pragmatic way to tell users where to
click to avoid fontenc loading by LyX.
Thanks,
Günter
